🧵 Untitled Thread
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 13:38:05 UTC No. 925136
Let's talk about gore in vidya. How do developers make it work? Now I'm sure there are several methods to create a gore system but what is one that an anon could, theoretically, implement in their own project in say Unreal or Unity?
With segmented characters, that is easy: make the hit limb disappear, at its location spawn some guts meshes and blood particle effects, and voila.
With NON segmented characters however it gets tricky: how do you make JUST the interested limb be cut off? I've been thinking about this and my guess is they do that through Shape Keys: when the interested limb has to be dismembered, what happens is that a Shape Key is applied making all the limb's vertices collapse into a single point and moved inside of the part of the limb that is still intact, maybe there's even a hidden plane with flesh textures that's positioned at the dismemberment point behind which the collapsed vertices "retreat" to. I realize this might be a bit difficult to convey/grasp so I'll post images below showing what I mean.
[1/5]
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 14:11:54 UTC No. 925145
>>925136
You do realize that if you show gore in vidya it results in massive sales reduction and a M rating?
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 14:39:24 UTC No. 925146
>>925145
Yeah dude Doom 2016 and Eternal did terribly, The Last of Us (the 2013 one) did terribly, Fallout 3 and New Vegas did terribly, Dead Space 1, 2 and 3 did terribly. Don't give a shit about ratings and sales son, I wanna see some blood
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 14:44:05 UTC No. 925147
>>925146
Anon, are you trying to debate that an M rating doesnt massively reduce sales? Oh my god
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 14:56:59 UTC No. 925150
>>925145
You are a fucking idiot.
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 15:07:07 UTC No. 925157
>>925139
shape keys only work if you have the same verts/polycount
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 15:09:16 UTC No. 925158
>>925150
>ad hominem
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 15:11:09 UTC No. 925160
>>925158
>pls no strong language
Go back.
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 15:23:05 UTC No. 925161
>>925160
>he doesn't understand logic and what ad hominem means
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 15:36:19 UTC No. 925162
>>925161
Your "logic" has strangely omitted existence of GTA V, PUBG, Red Dead Redemption and others which are the best-selling video games of all times.
Hence, you being a fucking idiot.
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 15:37:21 UTC No. 925163
>>925162
>among the best selling*
fixed.
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 15:43:02 UTC No. 925164
>>925162
>best selling
>gore
anon....I have bad news for you.
>What Is the Biggest Gaming Franchise of All Time?
>By a long shot, the best-selling video game franchise is Pokémon, with revenue of about $90 billion. Not only is it the biggest video game franchise, but it’s also the highest-grossing media franchise in general. It should be pointed out, however, that only a small portion of their revenue has been from video games; the franchise makes far more from merchandising
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 15:47:44 UTC No. 925165
>>925164
>he continues being retarded
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_
This clearly proves that "M rating massively reduces sales" is idiotic claim.
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 16:06:24 UTC No. 925167
>>925165
>sales vs profit
>calls other people retarded
anon...i have no words...
Anonymous at Tue, 8 Nov 2022 16:35:01 UTC No. 925169
>>925167
This is sad, even in full retard terms. You need to go back, idiot-kun.
Anonymous at Wed, 9 Nov 2022 05:29:03 UTC No. 925259
>>925140
hmmm
>Replacing the main model for a gory one and adding a gore limb.
or
>Keeping the original model, with a blend shape animation and spawning an extra limb.
My guess is that the second one might be less performant, but I am not sure.
Have you tried implementing both methods in an engine and compared the performance?
Anonymous at Wed, 9 Nov 2022 10:27:00 UTC No. 925282
bump, also would like to know more about how gore is made
Anonymous at Wed, 9 Nov 2022 14:40:21 UTC No. 925315
>>925137
>>925138
>>925139
>>925140
The main issue of converging vertices of the lower arm into the upper arm behind a flesh plane would be the weights on them are still related to the lower arm.
In case of corpses and death animations, that's ok - just lock the bone when dismemberment occurs or omit the bone in the death animation. But what if it's a Splatterhouse 2010 or Loadout scenario, where your character can lose a limb and continue being alive? You would need to have a separate animation set for the dismembered state since if you just hide the vertices behind the flesh plane and continue using the same animations as before, those vertices would just pop out of the upper arm and distort the mesh.
I think a better idea for a non-segmented mesh would be to make a character with a pseudo-segmented approach, where there is an interior plane hidden in the arm mesh like you did, but instead of shapekeying it would just use a toggleable mask texture inside the material that would turn the designated area invisible, revealing the flesh plane. That still has a problem of the flesh plane deforming weirdly as if it was an elbow, but that's a better alternative to having the vertices pop out of the shoulder when the character moves.
Anonymous at Wed, 9 Nov 2022 16:21:50 UTC No. 925320
>>925315
>instead of shapekeying it would just use a toggleable mask texture inside the material that would turn the designated area invisible, revealing the flesh plane
This is a very elegant solution, very interesting, it indeed sounds better than what I originally suggested.
As for actually implementing it (so activating an Alpha/Transparency/Opacity Mask at runtime if I got this right), do you know by chance how that can be done as well? With the Shape Key method, I showed how in order to implement it you create a Shape Key, and a game engine like Unity or Unreal knows that the model you imported has those Shape Keys and you can access/activate them when need be.
As for this Material Mask method, if I wanted to replicate it what would I have to do? At least on a 3D program level (so Blender or Maya).
If you know this too, that's great, otherwise the suggestion alone already pointed us in a more optimal direction
Anonymous at Wed, 9 Nov 2022 17:01:54 UTC No. 925324
>>925320
On blender you could make it work by mixing the opacity mask with pure black color and using the factor value of the mix as a switch between gore/no gore, then use that mix as the alpha value in the shader or as a factor in mixing between diffuse and transparent shaders. If you want modular dismemberment, you could also make separate masks and mix them with each other additively depending on which limb is cut.
I am not familiar with unity/unreal shaders, but i think many of the same ideas i described could apply there too.
Anonymous at Wed, 9 Nov 2022 20:41:47 UTC No. 925343
>>925324
It worked like a charm dude, thank you so much I was kinda losing hope with all the shitposting in this board lately but you've provided some real useful info.
The switch is provided by the ColorRamp: if the white value is at 0, it means no gore, if it's at 1, it means yes gore.
However, I was only able to make it work for one limb, as I've realized that due to the way my UVs are setup, I cannot make a bunch of different Alpha Masks for each limb due to the fact that the limbs all share the same UV space, meaning that if as you can see here the forearm is painted black in the Alpha Mask to make it disappear, and then in another Alpha Mask I want to make say the left shin disappear, then they would end up canceling one another pretty much as, if the shin gore is triggered, the shin Alpha Mask is activated which in it DOES have the forearm painted white, resulting in it "reappearing" basically. Eh it's a bit clusterfucky to try and explain it but I think you understand what I mean.
I'm starting to think I might have to make a different Material for each limb, otherwise I don't see how multiple separate dismembered limbs can be made possible
Anonymous at Wed, 9 Nov 2022 21:04:54 UTC No. 925347
>>925343
Wait a minute, I tried using Alpha Masks with TRANSPARENCY ENABLED this time (so with "Alpha" ticked when you create a new Image Texture).
It sort of works now but I get these horrible artifacts where my Mesh's seams are. It might just be a Blender-only issue as it has the habit of making seams very visible for some reason even at short view distances away from the model, still, it's some pretty nasty shit
Anonymous at Sat, 12 Nov 2022 14:12:18 UTC No. 925726
>>925145
Your brain on Nintendo shit
Anonymous at Sat, 12 Nov 2022 14:29:28 UTC No. 925730
>>925164
>what is Pokemon Edgeventures
Just because normal faggots and furcels are buying a ton of Pokemon merchandising of KANTOOOOOOO and the latest shillslop does not mean gore is not marketable. In fact, merchandising just kills your argument because that actually helps more people to get into a franchise or series that's already full of guro.
This is like saying Dragon Ball should stop adding blood, body horror, and gore because faggots ate just playing gacha or buying Ultra God SSJ5 Rage Bejita figures , which they still do anyways as of Super's last two and the SDBH manga.
If you were hired at a marketing strategy job, you'll get fired asap.
Anonymous at Sat, 12 Nov 2022 14:58:04 UTC No. 925733
>>925347
why would you need transparency on an alpha mask? It's literally a texture chart of from 0 to 1 showing where transparency is and alpha in it would just bloat the texture size.
Anonymous at Sat, 12 Nov 2022 17:43:11 UTC No. 925749
>>925733
It's a long story, basically this is the only way I found to allow for "modular" dismemberment via Alpha Masks, because if I don't use Alpha Masks with transparency enabled what happens is that the "dismemberment alpha masks" of each limb end up canceling one another pretty much, for the cause I explained here >>925343. So what you see here >>925347 is my solution for that issue I encountered. It may not be the most optimal solution but it's the only one I found
Anonymous at Sat, 12 Nov 2022 17:52:48 UTC No. 925751
>>925749
I think its just the mask not covering the limb fully and leaving some of that spill as that artifact you are having.
Anonymous at Sat, 12 Nov 2022 21:34:22 UTC No. 925770
>>925136
It's going to be a pretty straightforward system added on top of hit detection or death code. It would need boxes to detect where the hit went, and probably more variables for the power or type of damage (missing head? explosion damage? 50 cal? 556?) You would build a flesh mesh invisible under every character and then spawn in/modify chunks as needed. Code to modify the meshes here is necessary both to despawn parts of the ragdoll, and also spawn in the gore. You can have as many underlying meshes as you want, so if you modify their head away, you can have multiple types of mutilations or spawned in objects.
I'll talk about how a few games likely deal with gore:
Metal Gear Rising: mechanic of a sword that lets you freestyle chop people up. These are simple mesh cuts, updating of collision bodies, fill in textures, update rigid bodies. The code needs to be high performance because this game encourages 30+ slices as a finishing move.
Fallout 3, Call of Duty 4: these games use a simpler gore spawner with pre determined mesh modification states (missing arm? missing head?). Fallout is a big fan of gore chunk explosions.
Sniper Elite: probably the most polished implementation of this idea period. Complex organ meshes inside people, "realistic enough" realtime physics simulation, mesh modification, and also gore spawning too.
Anonymous at Sat, 12 Nov 2022 22:14:08 UTC No. 925774
There was a left for Dead dev talk about their gore system
Anonymous at Sun, 13 Nov 2022 05:31:02 UTC No. 925801
the theory youre showing rn has already been sort of done in left 4 dead 2
theres a handy dandy slideshow from 2010 that breaks down the gore mechanics a little and how they projected booleans onto holes and filled it out from there
afaik they used that same projection method in csgo a few years later so if you poked a long weapon like the m4a1-s through a thin wall the barrel wouldnt be visible on the other side
heres the slideshow my nigga
https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/app