🧵 Untitled Thread
Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 14:16:27 UTC No. 949985
So, that settles it.
>your dreams of AI bux : dashed
Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 16:53:25 UTC No. 949994
>>949985
Key point here is the dataset used to train the AI. If they used something like Adobe Firefly (which is trained on Adobe stock photos), then this would probably be fine. I'm guessing they used Stable Diffusion or Midjourney.
Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 17:05:27 UTC No. 949996
>>949994
>firefly
stock photos are useless mate
Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 17:27:21 UTC No. 949999
>>949994
firefly output can't be commercialised
Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 17:34:11 UTC No. 950000
>>949999
thats only partly true. Its in non-commercial Beta. When it is out of beta it will be open for commercial use.
Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 18:44:11 UTC No. 950011
>>949985
Writing angry emails and threatening bogus lawsuits works.
the chair nerd at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 18:48:03 UTC No. 950012
>>949985
Was the other thread treating you too harshly?
Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 18:52:02 UTC No. 950015
>>950012
nope, just want to inform /3/ about the reality that human generated work will never be defeated and ai slop is a one way ticket to getting b& from your main (only?) source of income as a dev. Hahahahaha
the chair nerd at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 19:11:35 UTC No. 950021
>>950015
OMFG are you ok? Is your fever too high? Is STEAM the police of innovation? Do you feel threatened? Fucking magnets how do they work?
Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 19:12:41 UTC No. 950023
>posting with a name
the chair nerd at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 19:13:38 UTC No. 950024
>>950023
>Feeling threatened by another person on the internetz.
Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 20:34:00 UTC No. 950039
>>949985
Unfortunately, AI is too massively valuable for content creation for this to be a permanent rule on steam.
They will work out the legal problems. Someone will negotiate use of a dataset and create an AI that is more or less squeaky clean, legally.
Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 20:40:32 UTC No. 950040
I don't get it.
Just don't tell people something is AI generated?
Like making shit in a program you don't own and claiming you made it in free software.
For shit that's right in your face, like characters and backgrounds in a VN, or something that relies heavily on static art, yeah that'd be obvious, but for textures on background objects or shit in general, I don't see it being a problem. It's not like people are using 100% licensed art in their stuff anyway. For fuck's sake, AAA companies get called out for it all the time. I don't think there's going to be some autist walking through the game and scrutinizing every single asset to maybe see if any part of it is AI generated.
It's unenforceable except in very obvious cases. Steam isn't going to ban your game because you "maybe" textured a cup with a seamless texture you've generated.
Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 21:06:05 UTC No. 950044
>>950040
You have to have 100% properly licensed assets to be able to be on steam.
Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 21:06:38 UTC No. 950045
>>950040
>Just don't tell people something is AI generated?
That's how it will out in the immediate in practical terms yes. So if you use dream textures for some background asset and don't advertise it it will be totally fine.
Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 21:09:18 UTC No. 950046
>>950044
It's in the TOS for sure but I can't fathom how they would check. The bureaucratic effort would bebeyond anything that can happen.
Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 21:15:07 UTC No. 950047
>>950046
>lying, pirating and faking due to general cg and ai addiction and not doing your own work
couldn't be me
Anonymous at Sun, 2 Jul 2023 01:24:47 UTC No. 950095
>>949994
Open sores AI
>le...LE BAD. Ban it!
Corporate AI
>LE GOOD. Proceed.
When will people notice something?
Anonymous at Sun, 2 Jul 2023 03:42:00 UTC No. 950102
>>950047
I mean in the context of texturing things with AI generated textures, I don't see how that's not "doing your own work" considering you'd just as easily generate something in Substance Designer, or grab a texture off of CC0 textures or whatever.
In terms of work involved of the 3, AI would actually be the most involved considering the prompting process and playing gacha to get a good result, SD would be second involved if you just grab a smart texture (though if you created the smart texture yourself at that moment it would be most involved), while grabbing a texture off of a library is the least amount of "doing your own work".
The only workflow that beats all of them out is manually texturing something by hand in something like Substance Painter or Photoshop. For background and non-hero assets though, that's a lot of work to expect a small indie dev to do for things that most players won't give a shit about.
Even all that being said, using AI textures, grabbing a texture, or using a smart material shouldn't be shit on with the mindset that you're "not doing your own work", you're using those methods as a way of doing more of your own work in a shorter time than you otherwise could have.
I keep saying it, in asset creation, AI is a force multiplier, not a force replacer. You use it to do more work in a quicker time with less resources. Say you worked 8 hours, you're still working that full 8 hours but doing more than you could otherwise fit in that time. Meaning at the end of the day, you're doing the same amount of work, using AI or not.
Anonymous at Sun, 2 Jul 2023 04:40:30 UTC No. 950106
>>949985
>completely fake news
it's no different than this
https://www.creativebloq.com/news/a
actually this had more credibility and was 100% wrong.
Anonymous at Sun, 2 Jul 2023 05:00:48 UTC No. 950109
>>949999
You people are so mindfucked, it's honestly surreal.
Anonymous at Sun, 2 Jul 2023 11:17:04 UTC No. 950127
>>950109
False
Anonymous at Sun, 2 Jul 2023 15:19:10 UTC No. 950139
>>950127
You can commercialize anything you make, it's legal and impossible to sue someone for it because objectively the visual output is transformative.
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 00:11:25 UTC No. 950172
>>950102
>I keep saying it, in asset creation, AI is a force multiplier, not a force replacer.
so is slavery. AI is just not ethical, same as slavery. Somebody gets ahead, but its not something we as humans can allow. Valve was right to ban it. Now you have lost your biggest market. Stings a little, don't it?
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 02:45:24 UTC No. 950183
>>949985
Square Enix is all in on AI
>>"The industry has been in a turmoil for a while, but it's really new and interesting."
Mr. Miyake of Square Enix talks about the "great revolutionary period in the game industry" that will come with the development of generative AI.
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 02:56:49 UTC No. 950184
>>950183
And they wont be on steam. LMFAO they are going to have to walk that one back
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 03:33:32 UTC No. 950185
>>950172
Your example doesn't work.
The point of the argument was that a single person using AI or other similar means (such as smart textures, or getting a texture off of a library) as a tool can do more work as an individual without that tool.
Using slaves as a rebuttal doesn't work because you're using multiple people to do the work of multiple people. They're completely incongruent as concepts. I mean for fuck's sake, you can give those slaves tools and they'd be able to do even more work individually than they could before without them. That's how tools work.
You've done nothing to help your argument except say "slavery is bad, mkay", when using any of those options (Image generation, smart textures, grabbing a texture), doesn't force someone else to do work, you're having the tool do it. Slavery is getting ahead at the cost of someone else, but the options I mention is just getting ahead without any cost.
Besides, there's nothing saying that you can't train a model based on images you've created yourself. At that point you're the sole owner of all the rights therin. Which makes the case of Steam banning "all games containing ANY AI generated content" dubious at best. There's plenty of people who have entire libraries of textures they've created themselves (via Substance Designer, or photography), and it's not hard to create a model with the intent of only generating those types of images. You don't need a base model for that, and the code used to create those models are open source, meaning that there's no issues with who holds the rights.
🗑️ Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 05:38:43 UTC No. 950196
why are jews so evil
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 05:45:30 UTC No. 950198
>>950185
You're nuts. The only way ai art is ethical is if each and every single weight in the dataset is there voluntarily - ie: with permission. Otherwise they are just like slaves, scooped up against their will and bought and sold at auction - forced to do whatever their master wants, even replace themselves of the very possibility of getting a job -- any job.
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 05:51:59 UTC No. 950200
>>950198
So exactly like I've described then.
>there's nothing saying that you can't train a model based on images you've created yourself. At that point you're the sole owner of all the rights therin...There's plenty of people who have entire libraries of textures they've created themselves, and it's not hard to create a model with the intent of only generating those types of images.
So now, what foot does Steam have to stand on if someone were to do just that, and Steam removed the game on the grounds that "they don't own the material they've generated"? Seems like to me, they do.
Now when I say "model" I don't mean an embedding, or Lora, I mean a full on Checkpoint. The code to train those like I said, are open source, and it's code, no stolen images. It's quite simple to train them. I've done a few myself, with, guess what, my own work.
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 08:49:31 UTC No. 950211
>>950200
Iyou are simply being ignorant and naive. It takes literally billions of images to create diffusion. EVERY SINGLE IMAGE out of the billions scraped that was ever used in any training must be ethically approved for use,. NOT.just the 30 images. used after the fact in dreambooth.
You lose
Good day,. Sir
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 09:10:46 UTC No. 950213
>>949985
its over.
cris on suicide watch.
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 09:19:53 UTC No. 950217
>>950172
>ethical
Property is unethical and intellectual property is especially unethical.
Also ethics are not absolute and it's different from laws.
My ethics are different to your ethics.
seethe and cope
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 13:19:45 UTC No. 950235
>>950217
seems like Steam's ethics are also different than yours.
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 13:35:48 UTC No. 950236
>>950217
at one point you thought you could earn unlimited bux off of furries by just working faster on commission, but then that dried up as they just generated it themselves.
Now your next main source of income has shriveled up as well - Steam - after you tried to game the system. You're becoming a laughingstock.
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 13:50:28 UTC No. 950239
>>950235
I would assume so they are a liberal cooperation after all.
Which does mean however they are easily intimated by screeching """artists""" threaten them by you better do something about AI or else.
>>950236
Not that anon
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 14:14:31 UTC No. 950240
steam only knows the ethics of making money and they don't want to risk opening themselves up to future liability. until there's legal precedent, or more likely, legislation, this seems like a reasonable stance to take.
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jul 2023 14:43:50 UTC No. 950243
>>950240
this
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jul 2023 02:25:14 UTC No. 950321
>>950240
>>950243
We're probably going to have to all go publish on the Epic Store now, dont ya think? Sure, our profits will be a lot smaller, but unless this thing really gets banned in all of the US at least artistically, Epic and China will be all we've got. Just pray they dont invade Taiwan - right?
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jul 2023 13:15:51 UTC No. 950345
>>950239
just move to china then nigger