🧵 Passing off 3D as 2D
Anonymous at Sun, 3 Dec 2023 08:04:35 UTC No. 966020
I've had this question for a while now, how can 3D emulate a 2D look?
as far as i can tell it boils down to a few things
>colors
3D animation feels like it lacks the same kind of coloring as 2D animation and of course that's to be expected but in order to emulate 2D animation i think it would require a different color scheme than what most 3D models have though i can't say exactly WHAT the color scheme should be but my gut instinct tells me it should be different somehow
>shading/lighting
this is a big one, shadows on 3D models are essentially rendered on their own and often come out very precise, detailed, and rounded
regular 2D animation in general has more basic shading and this is due to constraints in how work intensive it is to produce more accurate shadows within frames
light is essentially the same thing, high automatic detail that would normally not be there because of the extra labor it would take to create it
i think to some extent, a reduction in lighting and letting colors play out on their own would give it a MUCH flatter look especially when you realize that the light will really define edges and geometry
>excessive detail
this is seen most prominently in backgrounds of 3D animation where as 2D animation will sometimes have flatter backgrounds with little details that exist more so for you to interperet rather than so well defined that it is easily evident, the image of Pan is a good example of this with the less detailed background in 2D looking more like a painting that really gives more attention to the foreground and doesn't pop right out like highly detailed backgrounds would
>style
I really believe big companies have gone bland with their 3D models and let the simplicity of everything being done for them take over their little money grabbing minds and letting it ruin the potential for more distinct and recognizable looks
I feel this one can be easily solved though I'm sure to some extent there's things that 2D can do that 3D cannot
Anonymous at Sun, 3 Dec 2023 08:06:35 UTC No. 966021
post was too long, this is the rest of it
one very good example is goku's hair, it's a tricky one in 3D but I feel like there could be some kind of work around if there was some way you could hide the geometry of his hair in a hypothetical scenario you were using a 3D model of goku for an animation
overall it seems geometry itself is the main issue, color is a standalone part but lighting/shadow and style are still very tied to the fact that it is 3 dimensional
and sorry for only having anime examples, but i am curious if it would be possible to pass off 3D as 2D for other cartoons
Anonymous at Sun, 3 Dec 2023 08:38:10 UTC No. 966022
didn't read
🗑️ Anonymous at Sun, 3 Dec 2023 11:16:57 UTC No. 966024
All anime looks like the same soulless corpo slop, why do you care
Anonymous at Sun, 3 Dec 2023 13:58:54 UTC No. 966027
>>966020
https://files.catbox.moe/2iuygj.png
What I learned from studying 2d artists is that they're trying to render as accurately as a 3d, so the mindset of passing 3d as 2d isn't the one to have. Copying parts of 2d to show off your appreciation of it, or to make 3d easier works better.
Anonymous at Sun, 3 Dec 2023 14:03:41 UTC No. 966028
>>966027
>What I learned from studying 2d artists is that they're trying to render as accurately as a 3d
THINK!
Anonymous at Sun, 3 Dec 2023 16:43:15 UTC No. 966038
Are you new to this subject? Most of this has been solved already.
Anonymous at Sun, 3 Dec 2023 18:24:04 UTC No. 966044
>>966020
Look up NiNoStyle's work for FF7 mods
Anonymous at Sun, 3 Dec 2023 20:02:08 UTC No. 966049
>>966038
then enlighten me
>>966044
i just did and it seems alright, they did as well as they could but they obviously weren't trying to pass it off as 2D
what I'm talking about is trying to make a 3D model look 2D in a still image
>>966027
>2D tries to be 3D as it is
i know what you're talking about, especially because of the whole perspective drawing stuff, but no matter how you draw it, it will always have a 2D sort of style to it unless the artist goes insane with lighting and shadows
Anonymous at Mon, 4 Dec 2023 02:15:34 UTC No. 966064
>>966038
I tend to think people asking questions may or may not be new to a subject anon. That may be very well why they're asking in the first place but who the fuck am I?
Anonymous at Mon, 4 Dec 2023 12:57:00 UTC No. 966112
>>966049
>enlighten me
No.
How about you instead put the work in? Watch the GDC. Notice how it was posted EIGHT YEARS AGO?!
This is a case where you haven't put the effort in to learn about a topic.
That's why there isn't a discussion in this thread yet. Because no one wants to waste their time explaining eight years of advancement to a lazy person.
>>966064
Shut the fuck up nobody asked you a goddamn thing.
Anonymous at Mon, 4 Dec 2023 21:07:38 UTC No. 966149
>>966112
>how about you put in the work
>>OP makes a pic to convey what he's saying
>>goes into multiple examples so everyone's caught up on what he knows as of now and can build discussion off of what he said in the OP
u retard I gathered all I could then asked you because I didn't know where to go from here I put in all the work I could with online research
Anonymous at Mon, 4 Dec 2023 21:59:31 UTC No. 966154
>>966112
I asked you bitch made crybaby
Anonymous at Tue, 5 Dec 2023 08:46:14 UTC No. 966185
Didn't read.
The biggest reason 3d doesn't look 2d is because they don't use the same shortcuts that 2d takes to make animation easier.
-Panning shots to extend a frame to infinity
-Static poses with minimal movement except for the mouth/eyes/eyebrows
-extensive "smear" frames to convey fast movement without drawing more frames (like multiple floating fists in a singe frame to show a bunch of fast punches)
-static backgrounds that don't change perspective (except when the camera itself changes), they can be animated, but you won't have perspective shifts
-static cameras.When they do move, cameras in anime DO NOT move in anything more than a simple 2d axis (pan up/down left/right), or zoom in and out. You never really see a camera rotate
Most people that do 3d to 2d half ass it and think if they drop the framerate that's all you need to do, when there's so many shortcuts that are taken to get a 2d animation out the door that those people doing 3d 2d completely miss because of the tech they're using. Just because you have the tech to move the camera or move a character more fluidly or more often than one usually would in 2d doesn't mean you should.
I think a lot of newer animes that are 2d are capable of a lot of interesting stuff that actually goes against what I mentioned above, but if we're talking about tricking the brain into seeing that 3d anim as 2d, those "shortcuts" are the way to go.
Thank you for attending my Ted Talk.
Anonymous at Tue, 5 Dec 2023 09:59:59 UTC No. 966187
>>966020
https://stability.ai/news/stable-vi
I'm pretty sure by the time you've done your animations this has matured enough so you can video2video your renders so it authentically matches any specific style of 2D animation you want.
The A/B comparison in OP doesn't make sense to me. They all look 2.5D.
Playing around with colors or using CRT filters doesn't make it look 2D.
Anonymous at Wed, 6 Dec 2023 00:26:34 UTC No. 966250
>>966149
What programs do you personally use?
Anonymous at Wed, 6 Dec 2023 07:18:07 UTC No. 966288
>>966250
blender only
Anonymous at Wed, 6 Dec 2023 08:00:28 UTC No. 966293
>>966187
trash
Anonymous at Thu, 7 Dec 2023 07:27:12 UTC No. 966408
>>966288
Alright, well, there's like 30 different ways to achieve this exact same effect in Blender alone.
But, as a 3D artist you're still going to have to watch the GDC to understand what's going on underneath the hood, because every technique is based on what was discussed during that conference.
So even if we told you exactly what you needed to do you wouldn't understand because you never learned the basics.
The drivel you've written doesn't count. You're just sharing your interpretation. That isn't work but masturbation.
Watch the GDC you subhuman piece of trash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhG
Give up an hour of your life to actually learn something rather than wait for someone to spoon-feed you.
Towards its end you might learn that anime style is achieved via non-photorealistic rendering, aka NPR.
But what's more important than what any tutorial can provide is an understanding of the problem you're trying to solve.
The understanding of the problem is more important than the solution because "anime style in 3D" has multiple solutions.
Royal Skies has an entire series on it. 2am found an even better way to handle normals just this year, and that scammer DillonGoo released an entire fork of Blender just so he can render his gay cartoons while grifting people on Patreon.
And all of this is literally one Google search away.
Royal Skies
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?li
2am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKf
The gold standard in anime modeling, Kreuter's 3.0 tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?li
Anonymous at Thu, 7 Dec 2023 10:28:31 UTC No. 966423
I don't think it's possible for 3D to ever look exactly like 2D. Maybe styled like it, like in your example, but part of what makes 2D is off model frames, smears, etc.
Just look at the Goten and Trunks comparison. Trunks is drawn off model as fuck and with wonky perspective. These are flaws, sure, but these flaws make 2D animation what it is and are unable to be emulated in 3D without major mesh adjustment.
Anonymous at Fri, 8 Dec 2023 08:30:20 UTC No. 966495
>>966020
>how can 3D emulate a 2D look?
Render one angle only and lie to people.
Anonymous at Fri, 8 Dec 2023 08:35:28 UTC No. 966496
>>966112
>No.
You could just say you don't know, damn. I got flashbacks from a cunt in highschool who didn't want to share her chemistry homework because "she putted in the work", so I just sat down and did the chemistry homework in 10 minutes and gave it out for free.