🧵 Untitled Thread
Anonymous at Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:47:14 UTC No. 974420
if you were tasked with creating a heavily stylized original 2D character in 3D, how exactly would you go about making sense of how the hair should look?
Anonymous at Sat, 17 Feb 2024 18:48:06 UTC No. 974425
>>974420
Look at how people who have solved this type of task before has gone about it, I'd study Japanese resin figurines of anime characters for insight on how to do it. Like they've come up with a visual language of translating 2D hair shapes into 3D that you can mimic.
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Feb 2024 00:33:49 UTC No. 974479
>>974425
Good advice.
The thing they do is the just begin defining hair tendrils that originate at the part and terminate at the spikes. Anime figures have it easy because so often anime characters are designed to conform to 3d space at inception. You may have to just be ok with not having a perfect 1-1 recreation in 3D.
OP of youre serious and not lazy i would like to form a network of erotic 3d artists who do western toon characters.
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Feb 2024 17:12:25 UTC No. 974549
>>974420
Op your pics hair is ridiculously easy, maybe because I do this type of work every day but you can clearly see the front, and the sides are just a round shape that connects to the spikes in the back.
Maybe you are talking about another character
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Feb 2024 17:58:08 UTC No. 974559
>>974549
Not op, but i have a lot of bald character models that stopped at this point for this reason. Tell me about your process.
I just drew over op's pic to show how my instincts tell me to do it.
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Feb 2024 20:27:09 UTC No. 974573
>>974567
Ok then just like with real hair the back is the hard part. Tryhard the back and let me see.
>i have work
Nigga im at work too. Some things are more important.
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Feb 2024 21:18:47 UTC No. 974581
>>974549
no i was just talking in general about these kind of cartoony hairs that were clearly never designed to be seen from a certain angle or even in 3d like pic related or gokus hair. other relatively normal hair i can somewhat get a feel for but with this im just not sure where to even start or what kind of workflow to use since im still pretty new to this.
>>974559
>>974567
these are all really helpful
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Feb 2024 22:46:49 UTC No. 974589
>>974581
Ah but goku's hair IS 3d. You wanna know whose hair is hecka hard to model? Lisa simpson's.
Which reminds me. I noticed how dalle likes to do her hair, and i have been mulling over how to replicate it in a real 3d model because my own tries have been freaky and off putting. However, using ai to gen a cg style version of your character can help give you a starting ground for your own design. Of course only very famous cartoons are easy to gen.
Anonymous at Mon, 19 Feb 2024 06:27:33 UTC No. 974630
>>974589
That interpretation of Lisa's hair is ok for a still render, but if you go for a 3d model it's completely wrong, try to feel how that hair would work on 3d.
>>974581
That second photo is also really easy anon, there are hairs that barely work on 3d but usually it's not the case. You have to separate each shape and model that instead of thinking about it as a full thing
>>974573
No, work comes first, I did sculpt the back part too.
>Ok then just like with real hair the back is the hard part.
The back part of real hair is not difficult, What are you talking about?, maybe finding references for it would be more hard.
The point is... that is our entire job, a 3d modeller find out how something works on a 3d space, sometimes we can fake it on the camera like the Lisa Simpson Ai image, but I definitely can't, because I work on the toy side.
Anonymous at Mon, 19 Feb 2024 12:13:53 UTC No. 974653
>>974420
It’s interesting to see how different artists approach the same character. If you search for images of old Fred Flintstone toys, for example, the way they interpret his hair is all over the place.
Anonymous at Mon, 19 Feb 2024 12:42:11 UTC No. 974656
>>974654
The hair spikes are better placed, I wouldn't make them that square, and i would put one more spike at each side so it shows 3 at each side plus 2 more lower, but I am not the art director. Definitely not a bad rendition.
Anonymous at Mon, 19 Feb 2024 12:44:41 UTC No. 974657
>>974654
>>974656
I also have to point out that the AI did an amazing job at the amount of pikes for each side, I would so them that way, but not tilt them that way.
Anonymous at Tue, 20 Feb 2024 18:45:25 UTC No. 974864
>>974630
>try to feel how that hair would work on 3d.
I've been mulling this over for years.
You use blendshapes to lightly rotate the spikes to always face the camera on yhe head's up axis. Then you model swap between 4 models. A mesh optimized for front/back viewing, profile view, and 2 meshes for the left/and right 3/4 views.
I haven't tried it so idk how smoothly you can mesh swap. Might have to hide it in camera cuts or something else.
The alternative is lisas head is a morning star.
I also mapped the normals of a bald head onto a spikey lisa head. The results were interesting looking, but idk if they were good.
Anonymous at Tue, 20 Feb 2024 20:30:50 UTC No. 974893
>>974657
The AI took official illustrations of the character and just applied CG like shading and texturing to it with clever filters.
This is my old lisa mesh. This was the last version, of many, of her hair I tried. MY biggest issue with it is the seems between spikes. I just don't know what to do with them or hair to make this shape in an aesthetic way.
Anonymous at Tue, 20 Feb 2024 22:00:44 UTC No. 974927
Quick and dirty to demonstrate. Maybe a joint would work better than a blend because the verts are cutting the corner at the tips. But the principle of the idea. We can deform the mesh <some amount> before it's an issue, and we swap to a new mesh with relaxed topology and move on from there.
The simpsons managed to keep turn around like this to a minimum for almost 40 years. Sonme little amateur animation should be able to keep the camera from making dramatic sweeps. Keep it confined to angles that dont constantly cause mesh swaps.
Anonymous at Wed, 21 Feb 2024 00:01:57 UTC No. 974957
>>974864
>>974927
>>974928
I mean I guess you are right, mesh tracking the camera like the Mikey mouse ears it's a good idea, it will be perfect for animation. I work more on toys so it's not something that i can do, but I can help you pointing out some things that can make your sculpture more aesthetically pleasing.
First I would make the transitions more soft so they don't look like they end on a square (that's the problem that i see more) relax the mess on the bottom of the spikes. Make them less thick
Also give her just a few more inches of forehead.
The spikes are pointing towards the front too much. Something that I would do is the last 2 spikes of each side of the road makes them smaller and in a slightly outward tilt to show the cluster of 3 at each side and also to not cover the ears.
The ears are always visible and in your sculpture you didn't gave much space between the ears and the hair, that's why they last 2 spikes of each side need to be tilted so they don't cover the ears in any way.
Anonymous at Wed, 21 Feb 2024 00:07:34 UTC No. 974958
>>974893
>>974927
>>974928
Wouldn't it be best to just do some of the anime girl magic tricks like making a model always face the camera? picrel uses 2d images but the same principles should apply.
Anonymous at Wed, 21 Feb 2024 00:09:17 UTC No. 974959
>>974957
Yes. To pursue this rig in earnest you'd need more complex shape changes than just tracking the camera. It's doable but I also bet there's a shader based solution that would work better but is outside my depth.
Anonymous at Wed, 21 Feb 2024 00:11:07 UTC No. 974960
>>974958
Yeah my first Idea was to have a 2d plane with normals track the camera and occlude based on the orientation of the face, but I have no idea how to blend it into the 3d face mesh. Plus it might intersect with the environment in a weird way.
Anonymous at Wed, 21 Feb 2024 00:15:37 UTC No. 974961
>>974960
You could try making the hair a blend space so that it's still 3d. I'm not advanced enough to know HOW to do that, but I feel like investigating that avenue might yield good results.
Anonymous at Wed, 21 Feb 2024 00:18:36 UTC No. 974962
>>974957
>>974928
I'm retarded, I forgot to mention how to get rid of the square ending of the hair.
Think Lisa's craneum as a shape and each hair is a sphere, the problem you have is that to stack spheres you don't do them forming a square , you do them in an hexagonal pack, you can Google compact packing of spheres to see what I'm talking about
Anonymous at Wed, 21 Feb 2024 00:20:30 UTC No. 974963
>>974927
This star shaped mesh as a deformer which pushes verts out of the scalp to make this shape. Then the mesh is bound to aim at the camera, with some other bindings for details, and the scalp mesh just slides over it.
That might even help with the shape. Get that angled swoopy star shape instead of liberty spikes.
Anonymous at Wed, 21 Feb 2024 00:32:51 UTC No. 974966
>>974959
>>974962
I think modelling it is a good idea, I had made toys with more weird hairs to work. What your sculpture had completely wrong is the staking of the hair.
You are staking hairs in a square packing, that leaves you with that weird shape between them, try modelling the hair using a sphere packing on a hexagonal lattice. That should fix your model
Anonymous at Wed, 21 Feb 2024 00:34:52 UTC No. 974967
>>974963
good motherfucking goddamn why did I never think of this in so many years
Lisa hair as a special case aside, going back to the general topic. This might be a good path for creating and animating this 2d hair blod issue.
Make hair tendrils your favorite way, AND make a hair blob sculpt. Then shrink wrap the sculpt onto the tendrils.
Anonymous at Wed, 21 Feb 2024 00:39:52 UTC No. 974968
>>974966
This
Anonymous at Wed, 21 Feb 2024 00:52:41 UTC No. 974972
>>974966
I tried different staking and there became other issues. The valleys between hairspikes would get expanded and flattened no matter how many edges about the spike's axis there were. The crossectional edges between spikes, if there were too view edges would get flattened out in a way that made the whole hting look "drained" like an empty balloon. Too many and it folded over itself. The answer, unavoidably, is a very intricately designed topology that's also mapped over a sphere. So the valleys are selectively flattened and pinched how they need to be. Lisa's hair is supposedly interlocking spikes. The points inbetween many spikes, if there's 4 or 3, need to be rounded pits, annd hte valleys between just 2 should be gradual.
All of which is irrelevant now because of >>974967
But thanks for the help.
Anonymous at Thu, 22 Feb 2024 00:30:48 UTC No. 975064
>>974420
I would leave that place, if those fuckers can't afford a concept artist they deserve to go bankrupt , if that is a school assignment, you're wasting your time there
Anonymous at Sun, 25 Feb 2024 21:45:22 UTC No. 975657
>>975587
>>975588
Definitely on the right track. I wonder what the best way to make the round head look flat might be?
Anonymous at Wed, 28 Feb 2024 05:59:05 UTC No. 975887
>>975587
>>975588
Very interesting. I tried to tackle the lisa hair issue a while back. But I was too inexperienced to make anything work. It's interesting to see what a working hair might look like.
Anonymous at Wed, 28 Feb 2024 23:39:40 UTC No. 975940
>>975887
The coup de gras for this problem is for the deformer geometry to itself have corrective blend shapes which move it through optimal shapes for the most important and problematic angles, and also likely inbetweens for each of them so it doesnt do anything strange. Potentially a lot of fucking work.
At the very least I think a more clever deformer shape would make it look a lot better with little effort.
Anonymous at Sun, 10 Mar 2024 11:03:00 UTC No. 977144
>>974479
Nani nani, tell me more?
Anonymous at Sun, 10 Mar 2024 12:39:57 UTC No. 977158
>>977144
About hair tendrils? Or collaborating?
Im making a game as a 1 man show. I have managed to do a lot on my own but there's still a lot to go before its presentable. I want to connect other developers maybe we can share solutions.