🧵 Feeling demoralised with topology
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 07:51:36 UTC No. 999332
My background is in graphic design and I went to art school so I thought this would be easy. The sculpting/modelling side of the hobby I love but getting "good topology" seems impossible for me. I just dont have a mathematical mind and I'll fuck up the topology half way through and then the edge flow is fucked up and I have to start again. It ruins the spontaneity and creativity of it for me. I dont really even care about animating at this point so does it even matter?
Honeslty Ive seen people with great models and insane creativity but theres always some snide fucking asshole talking about "check the n-gons, git gud at topology kiddo". Reminds me of being into music in college and how radio stations would reject demos because the mix was slightly off. It fucking pisses me off. I'm not getting paid for this, I just wanna make 3D stuff that I like. Should I just ignore it all and do it my own way?
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 09:11:53 UTC No. 999333
>>999332
yeah do it your own way. otherwise you're learning how to model like someone else.
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 09:50:12 UTC No. 999335
>>999332
yeah, that's what i heard someone say about this
getting good at topology will require a technical mind, so people from artistic backgrounds will suffer
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 10:02:19 UTC No. 999336
just sculpt on top of a basemesh, topolet
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 10:30:50 UTC No. 999338
>>999335
is it still learnable to a creative mind? Like can I just make stuff and get feedback on the topology and just progress from there?
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 12:10:07 UTC No. 999344
>>999332
i just want to know how to rig hips like that.
>should I just ignore it all and do it my own way?
unironically yes.
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 13:32:54 UTC No. 999348
>>999332
>always some snide fucking asshole
That's just human psychology and not something you can get away from in any field. Some people are like that and best way to make peace with it
is recognize how that's just where they're at in their life and development, if they ever grow out of it it's because something comes along and humbles them.
I know because I used to be a bit like that before I mellowed out, but others ofc behaved the same way you describe, belittling me as I was learning.
My advice for handling snide criticism is to consider it's merit regardless of the tone of delivery. Try to just take away what resonates as true and is useful to you.
If another human you don't have to interact with goes around thinking you're a bit of a clown because 'such and such' that's pointless to get riled up over.
If you're on a mission to stop being a clown along the axis they're criticizing just consider the advice part and treat it as tho it was delivered in neutral tone.
Start out by faking not being upset with snide/angry people and don't return the favor by keeping it civil
like you're talking to a blank wall and eventually you'll naturally grow to just be that way.
Because it turns out it's very rewarding as it typically makes them upset how you don't acknowledge their remarks
which can be amusing to spectate due to it's karmic nature.
Sometimes they'll even come to apologize for having been too hostile or dial it back to such an extent you know they felt a bit ashamed.
But more importantly you'll make both yourself and them a better person for not picking up that shit they threw at you
smearing it like warpaint across your face while reciprocating hostilities as is everyone's instinct, which just triggers a spiral.
I know you came for topo advice, but this lecture is more valuable than learning about topology.
I'll make a follow up post about how to comprehensively think about topology later. Gotta run.
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 13:48:17 UTC No. 999350
>>999348
Thank you ChatGPT. You're always welcome and fuck jannies.
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 14:27:16 UTC No. 999352
Who gives a fuck about how some topology autist thinks?
3D is all about fake it til you make it. Everything about it is about playing with camera angles and hiding stuff from view.
Good topology will make it so texturing and lighting are easier and less time consuming. And animations won't break without heavy tinkering on skinning. This is necessary when you are in an enterprise pipeline where hundreds of people are working together because when you're on a deadline you need to do standarized procedures instead of going back and forth.
Sure, good topology will save you time and will help you with optimization. Also texturing and UVs can be a bitch some times with bad topology. But apps and games today are so unoptimized with shitty engines and copy paste codes that I feel like the artists and modelers are given the burden of optimizing their meshes to their maximum capabilities because the rest of the team won't do it or they can't do it.
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 14:41:26 UTC No. 999353
>>999352
>Good topology will make it so texturing and lighting are easier and less time consuming.
First of all, you should define what "good topology". Because there's not such thing as "good topology". There's only grifters who're trying to sell you their courses that are going to make you even less productive than you already are, if that's possible,
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 15:47:46 UTC No. 999359
>>999353
That's exactly what I mean.
Good topology = gets shit done. If your model doesn't break and your app doesn't run like shit. Congrats you have good topology.
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 16:37:45 UTC No. 999366
>>999352
> Everything about it is about playing with camera angles and hiding stuff from view.
This is only true for static renders. Mostly false for animated models and videogames.
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 17:28:56 UTC No. 999369
>>999353
here you go. No course needed. Just do this. Here's the cheat sheet on good topology. Something which is defined as topology which aids deformation. That's the point. That's what it means. That you character can go from smiling to frowning without looking like shit. It's not mysterious or subjective.
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 18:09:48 UTC No. 999372
>>999369
You need to stop with this all-quads nonsense.
Anonymous at Wed, 23 Oct 2024 02:59:40 UTC No. 999408
>>999332
How you handle topology is as much a style all your own as an actual visual style. For the most part, everyone handles it differently, and everyone has their own quirks. Not to say it doesn't exempt you from criticism, as there are general do's and don'ts (just like regular art), but like others have said, if it works, it works. No one who actually models will give a fuck about a triangle or Ngon out of place.
There's definitely something satisfying as fuck when you see a hard surface model with beautiful topology and clean lines, but as long as the model looks good, looking at topology and judging a visually fine model with shit topo is the exact same as pixel peeping (zooming in super far on an otherwise fine image to look for tiny insignificant flaws).
It just doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
Anonymous at Thu, 24 Oct 2024 11:54:12 UTC No. 999549
>>999372
>saar do not redeem the quads saar only tris are needful
Anonymous at Fri, 1 Nov 2024 22:45:50 UTC No. 1000651
>>999332
Do it your own way, but do improve and try some math, its not as hard as you imagine - you most likely just had shit teachers
Community college and Russian math books are great resources, treat it casually and don't die over it, but don't be afraid to invest in new methods and topics that could help you
Anonymous at Sat, 2 Nov 2024 00:24:02 UTC No. 1000676
>>999332
Here is an extremely useful technique you should use that makes it a lot more manageable
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/boJs
Don't worry that he's using Maya, this workflow works with every software. See he is just adding the edge loops he knows he needs like the ones around the mouth and eyes first then connecting them up later? This is so much less confusing than trying to edit a single elaborate continuously connected mesh. Here is an example of doing this workflow with the rest of the body: https://youtu.be/nOw-OHejmq8?si=RAS
Anonymous at Sat, 2 Nov 2024 09:24:20 UTC No. 1000698
>>999372
You need them for deformation and they help with easy subdivision.
Anonymous at Sun, 3 Nov 2024 00:06:17 UTC No. 1000731
Aesthetic comes from form ( model/scullpted), surfacing ( textures and bake from highpoly ), and design.
Topology is for performance and further pipeline.If you just want to do still renders, as long as the rendered pixels look the way you want it doesn't matter 100k or 100m, auto-remesh or manual retopo.
However, calculating polygons is taxing on your hardware. The more model you want rendered at the same time or the more you want to further manipulate your model ( rig/pose/deform/animate/simulate..e
Anonymous at Sun, 3 Nov 2024 00:17:22 UTC No. 1000734
>>1000731
also most of high-fidelity graphic from games come from textures ( try ripping assets from games sometimes, half of the game file size are just PNGs ) and trickeries with surface normal like baking to make a few quads appear like a perfect curve
Also quad flows, tris creases, if you're stuck just copy other people 's topology
Anonymous at Sun, 3 Nov 2024 13:26:23 UTC No. 1000766
>>1000698
Well, you can upres it one division and it ends up in quads anyway, but there's a method and sanity to how far you're willing to push all quad topology.