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๐Ÿงต Qualia is Real; Souls are Real

Anonymous No. 16062387

I now understand why people have always made the claim "if you're the smartest man in the room, you're in the wrong room." It's frustrating being the singular person within a 300 foot radius with a functioning brain and mind capable of experiences (qualia). When you try to explain basic high school level concepts such as what pH actually is and the maths behind it, you get nothing more than a blank stare most of the time. Some of the more combative dipshits will argue and make up something on the spot despite not actually knowing anything. All they can think is "pH is a number this probe gives you" and nothing more.

I think I know what's going on here. We're infested with NPC personoids who are incapable of thoughts and experiences (qualia). These "people" are actually less than human. If you ask an NPC about the mind, he will certainly assert his idea that the brain IS the mind and that mind and brain are synonymous physical aspects of identity. Unfortunately for him, the mind is what gives us free will and our identities as Human Beings.

They will very commonly ask you to prove your claim that you "could've done otherwise;" unfortunately, free will only gives me forward linear control in the universe and I cannot alter the past. They will ask you to prove that you have thoughts and experiences while being unable to comprehend the fact that these things are all self-evident to the Human Being. The Mind is as fundamental as being itself is. Next time an NPC asks you to prove that you have experiences, ask him to prove that he exists at all.

NPCs -- because they are less than human and certainly unable to have experiences (without a mind, this is impossible) -- cannot feel pain or any sort of negative emotion whatsoever. In fact, they can feel nothing at all. We should therefore treat them as such. If they wish to pollute our lives with their soulless, deterministic automata rhetoric then we will treat them as such.

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Anonymous No. 16063716

Anonymous No. 16064258

>>16062387
All the words you used to write that post were invented by other people. You studied their language, honed it, and mastered it, all so you could argue that you are uniquely intelligent. Isn't that strange?

And all of this you're saying to people like myself, whom you claim have no functioning brain.

But why? Why would you talk to a mindless brick wall? Are you some kind of NPC?

Anonymous No. 16064333

>>16062387
you were supposed to get an "epiphany" like that when you were a small child, and then you get older and wiser and understand why it's wrong.
The fact that you got that realization so late that you already know how to read and write only proves that you are actually on the lower percentile, ironically, you are probably part of the group of people that you are mocking right now.

๐Ÿ—‘๏ธ Anonymous No. 16064435

>science: theres this thing inside you thats specific to you and you alone and it determines your character, what you look like, all of your potential and many other things about you, its called DNA
>God: theres this thing inside you thats specific to you and you alone and it determines your character, what you look like, all of your potential and many other things about you, its called a soul

soiyboys will believe the first one of these and chimp out massively at the other

Anonymous No. 16064467

>>16062387
anon, feeling frustration over interactions with 'the ignorant crowd' is perfectly fine, but blog-posting is not.

>>16063716
if there's one god, why shouldn't there be many, anon?

>>16064333
so, why exactly is he wrong, anon? what makes idiots such valuable contributors to our life?

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Anonymous No. 16064478

>>16064435
nobody cares. go back to /pol/ or whatever idiot infested shit-board you come from.

Anonymous No. 16064480

>>16064435
So many problems. Scientists don't make the claim that DNA alone determines everything about you, your environment arguably determines more than your genetics. Also, of the things that DNA can reliably predict, we figured that out by looking at it. I can show you DNA. Show me a soul.

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Anonymous No. 16064490

>>16064480

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Anonymous No. 16064492

An individual soul can be approximated as a particular arrangement of informational potential emerging out of the zero point field and then giving rise to consciousness once conjoined with the flesh within the psychophysical realm, conscious experience being the psychophysical substrate of said arrangement

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Anonymous No. 16064493

>>16064478
>nobody cares. go back to /pol/ or whatever idiot infested shit-board you come from.

Anonymous No. 16064534

>>16063716
>t. never read the Book of Genesis

Anonymous No. 16064800

>>16062387
I believe that I "experience qualia" too, but whatever it means to experience something, it doesn't imply free will or the existence of souls.
1. It is possible that our choices are mechanical and we simply experience the illusion of having influenced them. People with callosal syndrome consistently have post-hoc justifications for actions that they couldn't have known they would take which is a point in this conjecture's favour.
2. If souls exist and affect things, then by definition they must be measurable. Thus far we have not seen any chemical reactions happening in the brain or any analogous structure whose outcome was not mechanical/completely predictable.
3. In order for p-zombies (or NPCs as you call them) to exist within the same species as those with "souls" there must be an actual reason as to why they don't have them. This is further complicated that there doesn't seem to be any level of heritability involved.
The only really confusing thing is that we can describe experiencing things in a way that externally appears completely mechanical. It is possible that experience is an emergent component of a sufficiently expressive, self-referential system.

Anonymous No. 16064814

>>16064480
>your environment arguably determines more than your genetics
tell me you dont understand genetics without telling me you dont understand genetics. genes respond to stimuli, environment vs genetics is a false dichotomy

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Anonymous No. 16064877

>>16062387
prove that you could have done otherwise.

>cannot alter the past
that's not what 'the ability to have done otherwise' entails. it means that AT THE TIME you could choose between different possibilities. if you affirm free will then you are affirming this ability. any other definition of free will is dumb.

Anonymous No. 16064897

>>16064800
Demonstrate 1
Causality is shit, 2 is self refuted.
NPCs are filler to convince me the world isn't fake and gay, but they have failed.

Anonymous No. 16064913

>>16064814
>genes respond to stimuli
As if genes are static things that once formed just sit there waiting to be stimulated. Do uncaused causers vs. determined determinists understand what interaction is? If F = m * a then what comes first: F or (m * a)? And does m multiply the a or does a multiply m? Yes it's a stupid question because that's how stupid free will vs. determinism is.

Anonymous No. 16064944

>>16062387
>Souls are Real
so, where is the soul?

Anonymous No. 16064954

>>16064877
>prove that you could have done otherwise.
not on the free will train but you need to prove you can predict which atom will decay next.

Anonymous No. 16065301

>>16064954
>determinism implies prediction
i'm tired of seeing this misconception. determinism permits unpredictability. all determinism means is that nothing could have been different.

Anonymous No. 16065436

>>16065301
true random means it could have been different, that's the thing. it doesn't decay according to a script, each moment is the luck of the draw, which means there's no way to fully know, and it can go either way, at every point in time. not sure what the fuck you're on about but it's wishful thinking to support your story

Anonymous No. 16065779

>>16064944
where is covid-19?

Anonymous No. 16065975

>>16065436
>true random means it could have been different
i know.

>it's wishful thinking to support your story
???

Anonymous No. 16065985

>>16062387
Blank stares are your fault. They aren't there to tell you things you already know.

Anonymous No. 16065987

>>16062387
>They will ask you to prove that you have thoughts and experiences while being unable to comprehend the fact that these things are all self-evident to the Human Being.
they're asking that to annoy you, they don't actually believe these things aren't self-evident. people don't have to think in formal logic to be rational, and they don't have to be rational to be conscious.
people can be coerced and forced, no one is in control of their mind, we're all products of our environment. you feel "polluted with soulless, deterministic automata rhetoric". you wouldn't be paying that any attention or effort if it hadn't been something forced upon you by environment/circumstance.
some instinctive sense of sadism or revenge is subordinating your mind to justify violence. your INSTINCTS decided to hurt this abstract group of people, then your mind frantically came up with an argument that you could accept well enough to justify the instinct.
you're no more in control of yourself than the normies who say shit they don't believe just to annoy you.
control yourself.

or don't, give into instinct, live based on it like machiavelli. but if you do that, don't construct some un-observable narrative about "NPCs" to distance yourself from the weight of inflicting harm.
you have to pick one or the other, you can't live in denial.

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Anonymous No. 16067006

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Anonymous No. 16067012

>>16067006

Anonymous No. 16067050

>>16062387
>Souls are real because the alternative makes me sad and scared :(
Very compelling

Anonymous No. 16067450

>>16064800
This post was brought to you by Dunning & Kruger.

Anonymous No. 16067456

>>16067450
the irony of your post

Anonymous No. 16067483

>>16064333
I know right, look at this old RETARD, he's only now starting to get it. He didn't get it as an infant like the super geniuses of /sci/ (You) and that anime protagonist psychopathic sociopath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnXUuyfPK2A

Anonymous No. 16067506

>>16062387
NPCdom is not measured by intelligence.

you may be hyper intelligent and still be an NPC.

NPCdom is measured by who dominates: you or your desires.

if you are an uncontrollable coomer, you are an NPC.
you are an animal.

what differentiates a human from animals is that the human is lord over his desires.
if you get angry while debating and snap, that means that your emotions have lordship over you.
that means you are an NPC and less than human.

99.99999% of people on this planet are NPCs.
those who are not, are the recluse monks, nun, immortals, saints, arians etc.
this topic is too arcane for the avg. "intellectual", they have not yet pieced together idealism/panpsychism, they are caught up in the arrogant lie of material reductionism.

Anonymous No. 16067507

>>16067506
>>16067450
(I didn't read any of that btw)

Anonymous No. 16067509

>>16067507
ok coomer

Anonymous No. 16067510

>>16067506
There's nothing arcane about it you're essentially arguing that lack of desire is some sort of transcendence past being an NPC, but you're not accounting for the fact that a desire for a lack of a desire is still desire. Congratulations, you've played yourself.

Anonymous No. 16067535

>>16067510
If China knew their place there'd be no sanctions.

Anonymous No. 16067538

>>16067535
lmao, wrong thread

Anonymous No. 16067544

>>16062387
Well? Could you have done otherwise?

Anonymous No. 16067547

>>16067544
You wouldn't understand. You are not alive.

Anonymous No. 16067551

>>16067547
Suppose there was a living lurker in this thread wondering if you could have done otherwise. Well?

Anonymous No. 16067553

>>16062387
>We're infested with NPC personoids who are incapable of thoughts and experiences (qualia)
Maybe they are smarter enough to understand everything inside the simulation is fake, and thus one shouldn't autistically obsess over shit like pH.

Anonymous No. 16067580

drones zooming around pre-programmed dichotomies, like flies over shit

Anonymous No. 16067878

>OP
>Estimated IQ: 104
lmao, zozzle even

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bodhi No. 16067909

>>16064492
someone who actually knows what they are talking about for once here, rare

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bodhi No. 16067911

>>16064492

bodhi No. 16067914

>>16064944
in a higher dimension puppetering your body in this dimension. Light has no mass correct? Where is the light then?

Anonymous No. 16068016

>>16067914
>in a higher dimension puppetering your body in this dimension
which sacred text mentions this?

bodhi No. 16068020

>>16068016
numerous ones, although in slightly different language of course
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_conception_of_the_soul

Anonymous No. 16068027

>>16068020
>different religions have different meanings for the soul
>none of them use scientific language
>I will just cherry pick the one I like and justify it with bogous terminology
lmao

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bodhi No. 16068028

>>16068027

Anonymous No. 16068055

>>16067914
>Light has no mass correct?
No, this is not an established fact

bodhi No. 16068224

>>16068055
how much does light weigh gigabrain

Anonymous No. 16068246

>>16068224
As much as the force of a waving particle bouncing against another particle?

Anonymous No. 16068789

>science: theres this thing inside you thats specific to you and you alone and it determines your character, what you look like, all of your potential and many other things about you, its called DNA
>God: theres this thing inside you thats specific to you and you alone and it determines your character, what you look like, all of your potential and many other things about you, its called a soul

soiyboys will believe the first one of these and chimp out massively at the other

Anonymous No. 16068795

>>16068789
ngl they both might be true. we could be enabled by the matter we are made out of, be information, that a God ultimately has access to. it could cut/paste us in some other dimension after we die here. one does not exclude the other in my view. these are primitive dichotomies desu

Anonymous No. 16069535

>>16067914
>puppetering your body in this dimension
How?

Anonymous No. 16069556

>>16062387
Of course anon, because you're a Boltzmann brain and you're imagining them poorly.

Anonymous No. 16069615

>>16065301
>i'm tired of seeing this misconception. determinism permits unpredictability. all determinism means is that nothing could have been different.
>sample size of 1 universe
>iTs uNpErDixtaBle
Okay retard
so humans are just robots with a randomizer function

Anonymous No. 16069621

>open third eye
>becoming loving individual who expresses his doubts, emotions, choices, good and bad, with open heart
>self actualize and be happy
>God is always there for prayer and talking to
>fuck a Caribbean light-skinned cutie with a huge ass regularly
>don't write obnoxious walls of text about NPCs clearly proving you hate yourself and your life
it's okay buddy
you can do better too

Anonymous No. 16069833

>>16069615
what point are you even making? that the universe 'should' be predictable? well it isn't. nobody can *reliably* foretell future events before they unfold. i don't know what else to tell you.

Anonymous No. 16070198

>>16062387
Qualia is a philosophical concept, not nessesarily metaphysical or religious. That said, it's kinda a vague nonsense concept, but that's normal for philosophy.

Anonymous No. 16070213

>>16069615
>so humans are just robots with a randomizer function
imagine having to deal with whatever is happening to you amirite
we found ourselves here and we have to deal with this shit anon. that's all there is to it. tell yourself any story you need, but don't expect it to be true.

Anonymous No. 16070221

>>16070198
>vague nonsense
Your experience is subjective. What are you confused about?

Anonymous No. 16070233

>>16070221
>Your experience is
quite limited. there's stuff you don't know about, but exists.

Anonymous No. 16070237

>>16070233
If your experience were limitless (You) would encompass the universe. We have the capacity to learn and broaden the horizons of our experience which is neat. I guess I fail to see your point. Yes, our experience is limited and a human will never know everything, but so what qualia still makes sense as a subjective experience of an entity called human.

Anonymous No. 16070245

>>16062387
>It's frustrating being the singular person within a 300 foot radius with a functioning brain and mind capable of experiences (qualia).
Truly this is it. Certainly the only explanation for why people aren't enthralled when some autistic retarded starts dumping gen chem 1 factoids a propos of nothing.

Anonymous No. 16070251

What has happened to this board

Anonymous No. 16070256

>>16070251
Literally same conversation ad nauseum. What do you mean?

Anonymous No. 16070276

>be me
>working dead end QA job for a fertilizer company
>I can't believe I had to take organic chemistry for this shit
>taking the pH of ULTRA-NUTRI-AGI-GRO-COCKBLASTER4000
>it's just 13% phosphoric acid
>nostrils hit with an overpowering stench
>jesus, is someone testing aqua ammonia outside the hood again?
>oh god no
>it's him
>the resident diversity hire starts lumbering towards me, bursting the seams of his XXXL lab coat
>why couldn't we have just hired a black dude
>catches his breath and adjust his lab glasses, smearing grease up the bridge of his nose
>"uherrrrmmmm did you know that pH is a logarithmic scale? that's why a change of 0 to 1 is so much more acidic than 7 to 6"
>is this retard serious? we have the same degree, does he think I not know that?
>stare at him blankly while I try to come up with a response that won't get me sent to HR
>"yeah, Jared. that's really cool."
>his eyebrows furrow and he turns away, taking out his phone and furiously mashing it with his sausage fingers
>I should have just majored in finance

Anonymous No. 16070281

>>16070276
Sounds like Jared just wants to connect with his pompous work buddy. Jared a cute.

Anonymous No. 16070471

>>16070213
I believe in God :)
greatest story ever told and it's all true.
Cope with having no free will little robot. Maybe your randomizer will randomly change your thoughts and you'll become religious!
>>16069833
I'm just summarising the post I'm replying to. His argument is we're just robots with a randomizer function so we can't predict anything or control anything. It's all just happening and completely random. If you kill yourself that was just a random action taken by your neural net. Not like you've got any control over it. You can't even decide to leave a bad environment unless your randomizer function randomly selects that option for you lmao

Anonymous No. 16070473

>>16070471
I have a boosted randomizer brah. OC gang in this bitch

Anonymous No. 16070477

>>16070276
Some random autistic guy just talked to me at uni and mentioned getting static from the door handles. I told him that I had that too so I use my sleeve to open doors now. We shared a laugh and he said bye and went on his way.
Maybe you should try being happy and wishing others well. He might be autistic but I'm sure he's having having a blast in this silly thing called life.

Anonymous No. 16070478

>>16070473
same. It's called believing in God. You get the Holy Ghost so you can move mountains by faith, and you Free Will for free. You also get a Soul! Three-for-free!

Anonymous No. 16070484

>>16070478
>for free
hidden fees

bodhi No. 16070488

>>16068246
you are retarded

bodhi No. 16070489

>>16069535
electromagnetic waves

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bodhi No. 16070494

>>16069621
You are right, but he is not wrong. Our position is being overrun by retards atm and at some point you are going to have make a stand against them.

Anonymous No. 16070511

>>16070484
I will never have a harem consisting of cute blondes and gingers :'(
But if I do
I'll just become Mormon. I'll talk it through with God after this whole life thing is over. Kind of his fault for giving me that opportunity.

Anonymous No. 16070521

>>16070494
dead honest my biggest mistake in life wasn't the drug abuse or the mental breakdown. It was wasting my time seriously arguing with retards. Meme and dunk and laugh and move on. Best case scenario is when the other guy gets pissed and makes a valid point so you learn something new. I've become infinitely more happy than when I seriously argued.
I'm going for a walk and a smoke and then I'm going to draw a nice story I have in mind. Do some other work and then cook a few burgers. Life's so good. NPCs will never understand.

Anonymous No. 16070527

>>16070281
>>16070477
so the only time we're obligated to assume someone is an actualized human being with an internal world is when they're a self important autist?

Anonymous No. 16070528

>>16070521
>defaults to hedonism
the mental gymnastics

Anonymous No. 16070539

>>16070527
You're clearly more autistic than the guy I was talking to. He was probably happier than you'll ever be.

Anonymous No. 16070545

>>16070539
I'd venture to guess the guy you were talking to wasn't making posts on nigerian coil pot forums about how 99.9% of the planet doesn't have a soul because they weren't humored while dumping their sophomoric knowledge about pH probes

Anonymous No. 16070599

>>16070527
You're free to assume humans are human with everything that entails without any sense of obligation. You've chosen to front load assumptions and filter them through your bloated ego instead. To each their own I guess, but to act like you aren't the one acting self important is laughable. Your story begins with how you find your station beneath your education level.

Anonymous No. 16070607

>>16070599
>your bloated ego
>how you find your station beneath your education level
you are flat out retarded if you think that was a real story

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Anonymous No. 16070620

>>16070607
Epic post anon

Anonymous No. 16070622

>>16070620
I'll go tell Jared about this post, he'll appreciate it
fucking idiot

Anonymous No. 16070624

>>16070622
Cool, make sure you calm down first though. The story might have been fake, but your assblast is very real.

Anonymous No. 16070626

>>16070624
You're the one gnashing at your reflection after I held up the mirror

Anonymous No. 16070631

>>16070626
That has not been my experience at all. The mirror of what you lying on the internet for attention and me believing you? Why would I be gnashing about trusting people?

Anonymous No. 16070634

>>16070631
>lying on the internet
you're right, I'm sorry.
the product was actually ULTRA-NUTRI-AGI-GRO-DICKBLASTER4000

Anonymous No. 16070638

>>16070634
If da joos lie and you follow in their footsteps what does that make you?

Anonymous No. 16070645

>>16070638
if da joose lie and you believe every word what does that make you?

Anonymous No. 16070649

>>16070645
Human.

Anonymous No. 16070663

>>16070649
Then surely you can say the same of the colleague who does not instantly get on their knees and start sucking your dick after you explain how a thermometer works

Anonymous No. 16070666

>>16070663
No one expect you to be perfect, anon, but your actions are shit. Even your response here
> get on their knees and start sucking your dick
reeks of ego as if you perceive small talk with a coworker as some sort of subjugation.

Anonymous No. 16070675

>>16070666
I'm very sorry that my extremely realistic story duped you anon, I will be more mindful of the profoundly retarded in the future.
I will also try to curb my ego and be more like those that believe they are the only real person in existence

Anonymous No. 16070676

>>16070675
Good. Fix it.

Anonymous No. 16070687

>>16070676
i'm jk get fucked brainlet lol

Anonymous No. 16070690

>>16070687
Wow, no one saw that one coming with ego as bloated as yours. I was sure you weren't going to be able to hold your tongue, and exactly as predicated here you are. You are my plaything and I am bored with it now. Have a great life, anon.

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bodhi No. 16070693

>>16070521
>I'm going for a walk and a smoke and then I'm going to draw a nice story I have in mind. Do some other work and then cook a few burgers. Life's so good. NPCs will never understand.
sounds very pleasant

Anonymous No. 16070703

>>16070690
>no one saw that one coming
I'll bet you didn't
I can't take credit for that ruse though, Jared came up with it. We bonded and became great friends while testing a new batch of TARDQUAT-BUTTHURTINOL-14

Anonymous No. 16070772

>>16064492
writingtoiq.com says it's 148 IQ post

Checked

Anonymous No. 16070773

>>16068224
As much as the constituent parts which form the ripple in the electromagnetic field

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Anonymous No. 16071417

>>16070599
>>16070620
>>16070624
>>16070631
>>16070638
>>16070649
>>16070666
>>16070676
>>16070690
ishygddt

Cult of Passion No. 16071476

>>16064480
>Show me a soul.
https://youtu.be/eIicpe8p0ZU

Anonymous No. 16071620

>>16062387
I also recently had a conversation with two people, in which, i adequately and thoroughly explained what qualia is, and they couldnt comprehend it.

They would just repeat "it is just neurons" or "pleasure is just serotonin" forgetting that the cause (serotonin) is not equal to the effect (experience of the qualia of pleasure). When you explain to them that redness is qualia, they will say "no it is light", but not realizing to separate the cause (500 nm light photon) with the effect (producing red qualia).

I am unsure if this is because they are NPCs (which i doubt) or if this is because a fish in water doesn't realize it is in water. Since the fish is surrounded by water all their life, they forget the water is there lmao. Eventually i guess some people cant comprehend qualia, literally because they experienced it all their life and cannot differentiate it from anything else. Lmao.

Anonymous No. 16071625

>>16071620
>500 nm light
i meant 700 nm* lol

Anonymous No. 16071641

>>16071620
>When you explain to them that redness is qualia, they will say "no it is light"
have you considered talking to actual people and not exclusively alcohol induced thoughtforms

Anonymous No. 16071670

>>16062387
Another thread demonstrating that it all boils down to the same hypocrisy: atheists in denial about their Platonism. Atheists believe that math really exists but deny that all physical objects are therefore incarnations / embodiments / forms / shadows of an intangible aspect of the universe.

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Anonymous No. 16071684

>>16071670
You have 100 words to elaborate in a manner that is not grounds for admission into a mental asylum.

Anonymous No. 16071702

>>16067050
Yeah, seems to be pretty common reaction. Although given how LLMs embedded spaces are synching up I'm gonna bet there's gonna be a new subset of these dip shits who worship the latent space of neural networks because the concept of a pseudo-platonic realm filters them.

Anonymous No. 16071717

>>16071684
Biological organisms are what complex algorithms look like to an observer. Organisms are forms of life as if there's life itself that expresses itself in different forms. Life itself, the will to exist, to be, to continue existence is the formless logic and reason from which all specific observable complex algorithms are derived.

Anonymous No. 16071720

>>16071641
sir these were people and they were not intoxicated, i do not think they were at least?