Anonymous at Mon, 11 Mar 2024 23:12:39 UTC No. 16069111

to add.
obviously humans don't just have two basic modes. every human sensation is a cocktail mix of different complex levels and frequencies of pain and pleasure.
but at a basic level, pain and pleasure are the only attributes of qualia. just like how binary computers are based on a simple principle of boolean logic.

Anonymous at Mon, 11 Mar 2024 23:17:15 UTC No. 16069121

bad title.
Can all of awareness* be reduced to just pain and pleasure?

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 00:33:40 UTC No. 16069211

Upon the ground, a lump of odious reek,
A steaming pile of mystery's embrace.
Its form, a hot and slimy, vile streak,
Provokes the senses with its foul-faced grace.

In shadows deep, it lies with silent mirth,
A riddle wrapped in enigmatic sheen.
What origin hath birthed this blight on earth?
What secrets in its gooey depths are keen?

Yet, in this loathsome mass, a beauty lies,
For nature's hand hath wrought it from decay.
A cycle of the life that never dies,
But changes form and takes new shape each day.

So ponder on this lump of shit, so foul and hot,
Within its grime, a lesson to be got.

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 00:39:18 UTC No. 16069220

>>16069081
>>16069111

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 01:59:43 UTC No. 16069310

>>16069220
OP here
im not a materialist, im talking about the mind not the brain.

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 02:11:53 UTC No. 16069319

>>16069310
Based. I just wanted to post the meme desu

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 02:20:28 UTC No. 16069324

Pain and pleasure can be reduced down to ambiguities such as energy or vibration. Awareness is what leads to your sensations reacting, connection is necessary to extend any control, so attachment or tether is the most material sensation, the intimate knowledge of the immaterial to material connection, and thus the drive to preserve within the confines of our physical limitation.

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 03:00:37 UTC No. 16069379

>>16069081
That is just stupid. Pain and pleasure are not like zeroes and ones.

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 03:52:05 UTC No. 16069459

>>16069379
but they're the only attributes of awareness.
think of the most minimal conscious thing, no eyes no ears no cerebral cortex, like a worm even lesser.
we know consciousness can model the world, we know it can take and manipulate data, but it also feels and senses. this feeling can be split into two main categories, pleasant and unpleasant (is there any other thing?) everything we feel is a complex mix of in between pleasure and pain. that's all I'm trying to get at.

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 04:05:10 UTC No. 16069471

>>16069459
>but they're the only attributes of awareness.
haven't read past this
>be silly human
>have vast range of sensations
>decide to conceptualise everything on a pain pleasure scale
>uhm you guys why is everything reducible to this choice I made???

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 04:17:11 UTC No. 16069483

>>16069471
sensations can definitely be reduced to something basic.
consciousness is like a painting, a painting has structure (neural networks intellect/computation?) and colors (sensations). the painting looks complex there is all kinds of colors and different shades, but all color is just white reflecting photons at different frequencies of energy.
also we know that all there is is either pleasure or pain. but it's not just two absolute modes for us humans, obviously we feel complex sensations and feeling that aren't just either pure bliss or pure pain. but those sensations definitely can be broken down to either.
if you have the least minimal conscious thing, it will only feel like it slides between bliss or pain because those are minimal attributes that come with awareness you couldn't break them down to something simpler. what else is there?

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 04:20:50 UTC No. 16069489

phenomena cannot be explained by material states

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 04:25:20 UTC No. 16069496

>>16069489
Right, but im not talking physics. think about your internal states, they're a complex mix of pleasant or unpleasant. what else is there to feel?
two modes black and white with different complex shades that interact.

take nostalgia for example, is there any other third type of sensation in there? it's an odd complicated configuration of pleasure and pain. you getting me?

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 04:29:46 UTC No. 16069505

>>16069483
didn't bother reading your ChatGPT tier nonsense
>if you have the least minimal conscious thing
so why don't you choose to be a plant? because you're not minimally conscious? so you're pretending you understand what that means without any way of testing it, experiencing it, or even understanding it on any level whatsoever except through your fully conscious reasoning? maybe you are minimally conscious because you're retarded

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 04:33:02 UTC No. 16069509

>>16069505
You're not listening.
>so why don't you choose to be a plant? because you're not minimally conscious? so you're pretending you understand what that means without any way of testing it, experiencing it, or even understanding it on any level whatsoever except through your fully conscious reasoning?
no you mongoloid. obviously I don't know, I'm just theorizing. but as you know first you need to come up with ideas before you test them.
im saying why not? obviously no one has the tools to test such a thing. but ideas are all we could work with for now.

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 04:59:13 UTC No. 16069543

>>16069081
The answer seems to be obviously no unless you restrict the term "sensation" so much it becomes meaningless

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 19:32:55 UTC No. 16070565

>>16069543
why is sensation only meaningful if it is used to describe complex emotions and not just basic impulses?

Anonymous at Tue, 12 Mar 2024 20:03:25 UTC No. 16070625

>>16069081
Your logic is too reductionist and inherently flawed.