Anonymous at Thu, 28 Mar 2024 04:51:52 UTC No. 16100584

vegans think plant aren't conscious because unlike animals, plants don't have a face that vegans can project their emotions onto
>vegans: omg the dolphin is so cute, look its smiling!! I bet its a happy go lucky funtime ocean buddy
>dolphin: *only wants to eat fish and rape*

Anonymous at Thu, 28 Mar 2024 10:52:18 UTC No. 16100969

>plant consciousness
interesting topic.

Cult of Passion at Thu, 28 Mar 2024 10:54:29 UTC No. 16100972

>>16100150
Yeab, it do be like that.

https://youtu.be/mPcEjZ3__E0

It do.

Anonymous at Thu, 28 Mar 2024 10:55:54 UTC No. 16100976

>>16100584
So, I'm alot like a dolphin then. ;)

Cult of Passion at Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:00:05 UTC No. 16100979

>>16100969
Good lord, thats, basically, my thesis...

Anonymous at Thu, 28 Mar 2024 13:56:11 UTC No. 16101208

>>16100150
if plants are so intelligent why arent they wearing digital watches?

Anonymous at Thu, 28 Mar 2024 14:02:26 UTC No. 16101218

This is why frugivorism is the best diet.

>no problem with animals
>no problem with plants
>no problem with fungi
>humans still a problem for minerals
>get your ass exterminarted by reptiloids anyways

Cult of Passion at Thu, 28 Mar 2024 14:06:55 UTC No. 16101226

>>16101208
Some do.

https://youtu.be/UvCGCBq42Ms

Anonymous at Thu, 28 Mar 2024 21:08:33 UTC No. 16101942

>>16100584
thats what happens when you're too low iq to mature past the infantile solipsism stage

Anonymous at Thu, 28 Mar 2024 21:21:50 UTC No. 16101974

>>16100150
Based plants.

Native Americans already knew this. Treat plants with kindness.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 01:42:44 UTC No. 16102494

>>16101974
>Treat plants with kindness.
The murderous vegans don't, they'd rather kills tens of thousands of plants a year just to feed their greedy fat faces than kill one animal.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 02:19:40 UTC No. 16102535

>fully conscious

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 02:22:37 UTC No. 16102537

Poor fuckers don't even have a mouth to scream out of

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 02:53:07 UTC No. 16102569

>>16100150
What's even more interesting is the ethics. When you eat an animal, you're eating something that eats other life in order to live. They eat life and then we eat them. However, plants don't eat other life, they eat photons, and because they don't eat other life, they're innocent. So vegans are actually eating innocent life, which is less ethical than the alternative.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 03:05:28 UTC No. 16102586

Plant consciousness is really interesting, after debating some vegans I ended up looking into it and there's so many experiments which just leaves you wondering what's going on. There was one I believe where a flower was able to 'see' a bee due to the yellow black coloration.
Then you get into the realm of their electric signals which perhaps we can use AI to understand. Also the whole symbiosis with mushrooms thing

My guess at the moment is that plants have something kind of like a brain, but it works through fluid mechanics in a decentralised way. I also think they are likely able to share some amount of their cognition with surrounding plants

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 03:06:51 UTC No. 16102588

>>16102569
But when you eat an animal, you're eating all the plants/animals that animal ate by proxy.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 03:09:32 UTC No. 16102592

>>16102588
Yeah but the point is that eating animals is more ethical than eating plants, whereas most vegans think the opposite is true.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 03:10:14 UTC No. 16102594

>>16102586
The question is why haven't humans developed an innate aversion towards plant suffering like they have with animals.

I could think of at least a few animals I would never want to kill, like a dog or a cat, but I don't care about plants. You can't really have empathy towards a plant. In some ways plants are kind of made to get cut, otherwise they'd choke each other out.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 03:10:24 UTC No. 16102595

>>16100150

One of the neighbor's main water pipelines had burst underground on public property when I was a teenager. The city, luckily, covered the costs of repairs and when they dug it up they found out what had actually happened: a thirsty poplar tree had found out the pipes contained water (maybe it smelled or heard it?), wrapped its' roots around it, and crushed it open like a beer can to get at the water.
After that point I was convinced plants could probably think, but that we couldn't really appreciate it due to how long it takes for them to respond and how alien their mode of existence is compared to other organisms.

I don't like what we do to animals in factory farms, that automated crab dismembering device genuinely horrifies and offends me, consumption really does just seem to be a cycle of suffering though and that all we can do is to manage & limit, but not eliminate, that suffering.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 03:12:27 UTC No. 16102597

>>16102569
Not really. Plants frequently have a relationship with fungi to help both create sugars. Plants don't "eat photons", they use a reality hack to generate free energy that involves photons and several different other things.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 03:14:20 UTC No. 16102600

>>16102595
>I don't like what we do to animals in factory farms, that automated crab dismembering device genuinely horrifies and offends me, consumption really does just seem to be a cycle of suffering though and that all we can do is to manage & limit, but not eliminate, that suffering.

To sustain our life, we must consume life.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 03:15:21 UTC No. 16102605

>>16102597
>Plants don't "eat photons"
I mean, they basically do through photosynthesis, right?

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 03:31:29 UTC No. 16102629

>>16102594
With dogs and cats - especially dogs - I think because we evolved alongside them and share a lot of mental and emotional understanding capacities then that plays into our aversion. Same with apes. The more alien that a lifeform appears, the more we are going to be okay with eating

Also we have no real way to see or understand how or if plants are suffering, like we can't hear their noises and they move too slowly for us to intuitively understand. Still though it's probable that they suffer in some way, maybe even in a way that is far worse than how animals suffer, or maybe less. I think they basically are a different kind of consciousness than found in animals, it will be very hard for us to understand

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 03:40:58 UTC No. 16102644

Yeah..an apple is fully conscious and we should not eat it.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 04:15:59 UTC No. 16102686

>>16102592
>most vegans think
they don't, they don't have the capacity to because their diet causes their brain to decay

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 06:29:39 UTC No. 16102855

Damn. I spent like an hour or two today wrestling a bush out of the yard with a crowbar because I didn't like it. Maybe I should be sent to plant jail

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 06:44:05 UTC No. 16102884

>>16102855

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 07:10:16 UTC No. 16102913

>>16102605
I think absorb would be a better fit than eat.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:24:30 UTC No. 16103104

>>16102569
Plants eat CO2 carbon dioxide. Photons just catalyze photosynthesis.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:31:40 UTC No. 16103107

>>16102629
>The more alien that a lifeform appears, the more we are going to be okay with eating
Insects are so bizarre they might as well be alien and I would never eat them.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:50:42 UTC No. 16103120

>>16102594
>like a dog
Even if one was mauling a poor animal or fellow human to death? lol
>but I don't care about plants
You definitely are in the minority then. Plants are appreciated because without them, life wouldn't exist. Plants are the foundation of all life and ecosystems. Plants produce the sweet oxygen we all need for cellular respiration and delicious fruits for us to eat and enjoy. The flowers plants bloom are beautiful, although the pollen is less than appreciated. Without the lush vegetation and oxygenated atmosphere, Earth would look like any other dismal, boring shithole terrestrial planet. Go live with your gay ass cats and dogs on Mars.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 12:37:35 UTC No. 16103163

>>16100972
What's fascinating about this is how ancient people already figured this stuff out and we just threw it all out at some point for seemingly no reason. The last thousand years or so of modern civilization has just been rebuilding a knowledge base that existed for thousands of years before that.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 12:39:48 UTC No. 16103167

>>16103120
I think you're mistaking an appreciation for plants with the idea of emotionally bonding with a pet. Would someone cry for a tree getting cut down or a weed getting pulled up the same way they might cry for a dog being killed? I doubt it.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 13:31:08 UTC No. 16103197

>>16103167
People that emotionally bond with the gardens they create and cultivate? If you went through a garden and started hacking and slashing it up I guarantee the gardener isn't going to be exactly pleased. But a nuisance dog being put down is a duty for the well-being of others and can be cathartic knowing the victim get the justice they deserve.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 13:37:00 UTC No. 16103201

>>16103197
No, I'm saying people cry about dogs they don't know being hurt or killed. The ASPCA commercials that show sad dogs are quite infamous, for example, but I don't think you'd ever get that kind of response to a commercial that does the same thing with wilted flowers.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 15:18:22 UTC No. 16103288

But WHAT IF WE ATE FRUITS DESIGNED BY THE PLANTS TO BE EATEN BY ANIMALS, ITS A WIN-WIN FOR THE PLANT AND FOR you

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 15:29:39 UTC No. 16103299

>>16103107
I poorly worded my post, what I mean is that we are more acceptable emotionally to alien life from us being killed, eaten, etc. This same applies for insects, even if they are disgusting we don't bother at all that they are killed and eaten by frogs or chinese people

>>16103288
This is the optimum solution for plants, one potential issue here being that we chop up and prune plants for their fruits, which may be agonizing for them

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 21:00:17 UTC No. 16103741

Your cell phone can react to stimulus just like a plant can. Without the ability to actively avoid danger, there's no reason for an organism to evolve pain responses, and consciousness would be a waste of energy. Releasing chemicals in response to environmental conditions may be similar to animal cognition, but pain is an interaction between chemicals and a consciousness. Without consciousness, plants feel pain the same way my phone does when I don't charge it.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 21:15:15 UTC No. 16103768

>>16103741
You're awfully confident in your complete ignorance.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 21:24:16 UTC No. 16103783

>>16103741
The exact same chemical which is responsible for pain responses in animals is present in plants, and responds to things such as damage or dehydration
If consciousness makes plants more likely to survive or reproduce then it wouldn't be a waste of energy. All of the effects studied so far would give benefits in either of these ways

A lot of people do say that plants are purely mechanical, as in your cell phone example, it could be the case but at the moment we just don't know yet. One interesting thing to me is that new traits and behaviours are constantly being discovered in plants, at some point purely mechanical systems aren't adequate for such complex behaviours. Especially things such as memories or other signs of information processing

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 22:08:17 UTC No. 16103862

>>16102686
There are plenty of plants that contain B12.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 22:17:45 UTC No. 16103880

>>16103783
>If consciousness makes plants more likely to survive or reproduce then it wouldn't be a waste of energy.

Consciousness helps you and me and many other members of Animalia because it lets us make decisions about how we use our ambulatory bodies. What decisions can a plant make? It doesn't choose where it's born, it cannot make risk/reward assessments, it cannot get up and walk to a more nutrient rich patch of soil.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 22:22:48 UTC No. 16103888

>>16103880
>What decisions can a plant make?
Plenty. Watch the video in OP and the video in >>16100972

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 22:34:07 UTC No. 16103911

>>16103880
They can decide to release chemicals to deter insects eating their leaves, they can transmit threat warnings to other plants (and receive these warnings), flowers can make more pollen available when they see or hear a bee. They can create memories of unique threats or unique situations in their surroundings. Then you've got all the low/medium level generic regulation stuff where being proactive is beneficial. Possibly also there's some other deeper 'plant psychological' component to this, I'm speculating hard here but you know when plants are on the brink of death and sometimes can randomly recover, maybe consciousness could play a part there

There's another area as well sometimes called the 'underground internet', this involves mycelium and plant roots and could perhaps point to some kind of hive intelligence or something like that. Perhaps also plant consciousness could facilitate their symbiosis with mycelium

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 22:52:29 UTC No. 16103934

>>16102494
More plants die if you eat animals than if you eat plants
Because animals eat plants

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 22:58:01 UTC No. 16103940

>>16103934
Animals extract nutrition from plants far more efficiently than humans. The amount of plant matter that an animal needs to eat to feed a given number of humans with its meat is far less than the amount of plant matter that same number of humans would need to eat directly to acquire the same amount of nutrition.

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 23:00:55 UTC No. 16103946

>>16103940
Are you saying that a 800kcal steak and potato meal kills fewer plants than two 400kcal Huel shakes?

Anonymous at Fri, 29 Mar 2024 23:08:17 UTC No. 16103959

>>16103946
Nothing I said has anything to do with calories. I said NUTRITION. You need to eat a lot more plant mass to get the same amount of nutrients as you can from animal meat. The most efficient path for converting plants into nutrition is to put them through animals, and that efficiency is what lowers plant death as much as reasonably possible.

Anonymous at Sat, 30 Mar 2024 01:05:43 UTC No. 16104133

>>16103934
Cows and sheep mainly eat grass, which are a way different kind of life to complex plants. Also the plants fed to chickens are by-products of cash crop farms - basedbeans - after processing these plants for human use, the husks and remains are what we feed to chickens, thereby introducing those calories back to humans and requiring less plants to be killed

So no, the plants dont die because animals eat them, in the case of onions they die because humans use them, and animals are a necessary component of recycling the dead plant matter. Cows and sheep are crucial parts of the carbon cycle which grass participates in. They also importantly consume inedible (for humans) hay stalks

Very different to vegans who grow to kill the plants for direct consumption. Vegans also consume a wide variety of plants, many of which are more complex. The vegan standards also necessitates the poisoning, electrocution and trapping of various kinds of animals on agriculture plots. A meat based diet doesn't require this. In essence, vegans are more murderous for both plants and animals in a dietary sense. They are the pinnacle of hypocrites

Anonymous at Sat, 30 Mar 2024 01:52:54 UTC No. 16104215

>>16100584
dumb noggo, dolphins have a highly developed cortex and very likely feel the same things we do given stressful situations

Anonymous at Sat, 30 Mar 2024 02:11:22 UTC No. 16104234

>>16104215
Yeah, like when deciding whether to rape.

Anonymous at Sat, 30 Mar 2024 03:23:05 UTC No. 16104298

>>16104133
well said

Cult of Passion at Sat, 30 Mar 2024 03:29:40 UTC No. 16104302

>>16103163
Exactly.

Its partially Molecular Lineage, partly BioPhysics signalling, partly Gene Expression, all wildly different Dimensions of Analysis revealing who knows what for scientific study.

Neat dei for discovery.

Anonymous at Sat, 30 Mar 2024 04:51:35 UTC No. 16104364

>>16103741
>Without the ability to actively avoid danger, there's no reason for an organism to evolve pain responses
I don't think gene mutations happen in such a deterministic manner, isn't it better described as a stochastic or probabilistic process?
I don't think that whatever causes gene mutations actually cares about what that mutation ends up affecting
Selective pressure and Fitness advantages/disadvtanges can heavily influence the process, sure. But again, my understanding is that it's not such a rational and deterministic process

Anonymous at Sat, 30 Mar 2024 12:01:04 UTC No. 16104642

>>16104364
A lot of people are completely incapable of understanding that evolution is a random, unthinking process.

Anonymous at Sat, 30 Mar 2024 13:25:39 UTC No. 16104723

>>16101208
They are so intelligent they inherently know the exact time, exact gps coordinates, exact heartrate, hydration, and all other information. They spend their effort creating cool looking but awful smelling petals to troll retarded humans.