Anonymous at Sun, 31 Mar 2024 21:24:16 UTC No. 16106810

Come on, /sci/. I know some of you are smart.

Anonymous at Sun, 31 Mar 2024 21:36:57 UTC No. 16106833

all you've done is asserted if n observed exist then n observed exist. much wow. reminder that not a single conservation law in all of physics holds at the universal level.
>fine then i apply it only to earth
not a closed system.

Anonymous at Sun, 31 Mar 2024 21:59:40 UTC No. 16106857

>blahblah fancy words
i don't understand what you're saying therefore you're wrong

Anonymous at Sun, 31 Mar 2024 22:07:37 UTC No. 16106865

>>16106492
In physics consciousness is material
Exchange the term "consciousness" in your argument with "matter"
You just proved matter/energy is conserved.

Congrats!

Anonymous at Sun, 31 Mar 2024 22:20:43 UTC No. 16106886

>>16106865
>In physics consciousness is material
False. In physics consciousness is essential to the collapse of the wave function.

bodhi at Sun, 31 Mar 2024 22:24:31 UTC No. 16106895

>>16106810
>/sci/
>smart

Anonymous at Sun, 31 Mar 2024 22:30:34 UTC No. 16106906

>>16106886
>>16106886
That's fine, but noethers theorem only applies to physical systems and consciousness is nonphysical in this case

Anonymous at Sun, 31 Mar 2024 22:35:49 UTC No. 16106915

>>16106906
But Noether's theorem itself is nonphysical. It's a priori knowledge straight from the platonic realm.

Anonymous at Sun, 31 Mar 2024 22:36:57 UTC No. 16106917

>>16106895
missed her

Anonymous at Sun, 31 Mar 2024 22:49:12 UTC No. 16106932

>>16106915
>>16106915
Alright you win

Anonymous at Sun, 31 Mar 2024 23:11:15 UTC No. 16106961

>>16106492
>7. Since the action consisted of an exchange of conscious observers, the conserved quantity can be identified with global consciousness which is coupled to physics.
>8. Conservation of consciousness implies that reincarnation must be a physical law.
I don't follow. If there is a global consciousness then that just means we're all one. That's bigger than reincarnation.

Anonymous at Mon, 1 Apr 2024 00:58:47 UTC No. 16107103

>>16106961
Global consciousness here just means the spacetime integral of all discrete consciousnesses. No panpsychism implied.

Anonymous at Mon, 1 Apr 2024 01:04:48 UTC No. 16107110

>>16106961
what's weird is that I think we all alive can be traced back to a single cell which suddenly split or something. I think technically we might be the very same split something

Anonymous at Mon, 1 Apr 2024 05:22:53 UTC No. 16107395

>>16106492
According to your argument, would EVERY person have reincarnate? Or could it be reserved for particular members of consciousness?

Anonymous at Mon, 1 Apr 2024 05:29:19 UTC No. 16107398

>>16107103
does this mean subconscious beings could collapse the wave function, like atoms, perhaps?

Anonymous at Mon, 1 Apr 2024 09:41:54 UTC No. 16107542

>>16107110
It's cool too see how inert matter gets us were we are I think personnaly biochemistry is the best study of life

Anonymous at Mon, 1 Apr 2024 16:42:05 UTC No. 16107942

>>16106492
CLOCKWORK UNIVERSE CONFIRMED, BABY!

Anonymous at Mon, 1 Apr 2024 17:31:41 UTC No. 16107985

>>16107395
Well, most humans are NPCs. If reincarnation is happening then it's only happening to the small number of humans who are protagonists. But it's only the consciousness being recycled, not the memories.

Anonymous at Mon, 1 Apr 2024 19:45:06 UTC No. 16108150

>>16107985
Would it follow that certain conscious beings (souls) could exist in purgatory for a period of time? Assuming that purgatory is a physical location which souls could inhabit.
If souls are still inhabiting spacetime then they are not being destroyed, so they could continue to exist without reincarnating. Meanwhile the protagonists could cycle through a different kind of purgatory which includes reincarnation.
Would that be feasible? Please answer, even if you just say "no", it's a serious question.

Anonymous at Mon, 1 Apr 2024 19:52:58 UTC No. 16108163

>>16108150
Dunno but I'd ask the same question for particles. When an annihilation operator of quantum field theory acts on a particle, where does the particle go? Is it really destroyed or does it end up in particle purgatory until it is recreated by a creation operator at a different location?

Anonymous at Tue, 2 Apr 2024 08:04:56 UTC No. 16108983

>>16108163
>annihilation operator
is that like the dark matter of quantum physics?
Do particles themselves exist in the platonic realm as well? or are they necessarily physical?

Anonymous at Tue, 2 Apr 2024 08:39:28 UTC No. 16109015

>>16108150
if you discover electricity and tell peers, build generators/bulbs, come comet hit you square wipes all, fully glass the continent. some poor fucks frm other side of world from primitive tribe evolve and discover electricity.
when first humans got wiped, did the electricity (or information about its existence) go to purgatory? was it summoned back when second group of humans rediscovered it?
it is always there, you are just missing the information about it.

Anonymous at Tue, 2 Apr 2024 08:48:51 UTC No. 16109022

>>16109015 me
everything that has ever existed, and everything that could have existed, along with everything that exists and everything that could exist, along with everything that will exist and also everything that could exist, all exist, since forever, and forever. they are all possibilities.
the best song/poem/symphony that you could experience with your human senses already exists. nobody put it down on paper yet, and nobody sang it. but it exists, it's there, you just need to discover it, get lucky, brute force it, whatever. but it's there, along with everybody who ever existed and never existed, but could have, and everybody who will exist. everything is there, you just need to pull it and trap it here. at least for a while, but it always exists. where? dunno. that place must be really weird.

Anonymous at Tue, 2 Apr 2024 08:58:47 UTC No. 16109035

>>16109022
There could be infinite infinite worlds where certain potentialities aren't actualized. If they can never be actualized and will never be, assuming that objective reality is contained within the universe in which that potentiality was never actualized, then do they really exist?
The platonic realm would be objective, it doesn't need to contain all possibilities, but would contain discoverable truths.

Anonymous at Tue, 2 Apr 2024 09:02:55 UTC No. 16109040

>>16109035
>then do they really exist?
yes if they are possible. at least that's what I think. I might be wrong but it perfectly explains everything that was so far.

Anonymous at Tue, 2 Apr 2024 09:10:25 UTC No. 16109045

>>16109040
If an action is possible, but it never happened, then it as an action doesn't exist, but only the possibility.
But if we never discovered electricity or geometry, things like that, I'd say they exist independently of our discovery

bodhi at Tue, 2 Apr 2024 15:09:53 UTC No. 16109348

>>16106917
she misses you too anon, she misses you too

Anonymous at Tue, 2 Apr 2024 17:11:27 UTC No. 16109434

>>16106492
There is only one ontological issue in the argument, otherwise I think it is very sound and that a conservation of consciousness is a quite rational and creative application of logic. The question is if consciousness is a discrete or continuous resource and if it is finite or infinite. Essentially, what is consciousness, can we ascribe all conscious entities with a countable set, and does the concept of conservation of consciousness really imply reincarnation

>>16106886
>>16107398

These two notions point to the Animism theory of consciousness, in that "everything" is conscious, or rather, all that collapses the wave-function is conscious. Wave-functions collapse via decoherence, and it is known that things that we do not traditionally describe as being conscious can de-cohere a superposition. This brings into question if a re-use of consciousness really is reincarnation. At the end of life, all the physical constituents of the living thing go back into the world, dust to dust and all, and if we say this dust is conscious, then the notion of reincarnation is not really poignant. Animism also introduces a "ship of Theseus" problem, and if we are to dispel of these notions we must consider consciousness as something other than "an observer".

So enters the soul, or rather, a conscious entity. The argument hinges upon a rigorous definition of a soul.

Anonymous at Wed, 3 Apr 2024 08:00:04 UTC No. 16110323

uuh... /sci/sisters, our response?

Anonymous at Wed, 3 Apr 2024 08:09:15 UTC No. 16110332

>>16106492

This would only be true if souls existed or consciousness was a physical thing. There can be an infinite # of conscious beings because consciousness is just electricity in the brain

Anonymous at Wed, 3 Apr 2024 08:13:20 UTC No. 16110337

>>16110332
what if souls are a physical thing and consciousness needs something physical to operate in spacetime?

Anonymous at Wed, 3 Apr 2024 08:15:00 UTC No. 16110341

Given f AG, we therefore conclude that OP f AG.

Anonymous at Wed, 3 Apr 2024 08:15:42 UTC No. 16110342

>>16110332
>This would only be true if
but you dont know if your hypothetical is false
> because consciousness is just
you cant know that

Anonymous at Wed, 3 Apr 2024 09:15:03 UTC No. 16110390

>>16109434
>The question is if consciousness is a discrete or continuous resource and if it is finite or infinite.
Good point, anon. Here's my opinion.

A naive approach would argue that every consciousness has to be coupled to a physical body, a physical body has to consist of at least one atom, and since the number of atoms in the universe is finite the sum of consciousness has to be finite. However, this approach assumes an upper and lower bound for the quantification of an individual consciousness. All three assumptions are questionable.

1) upper bounds
Consciousness singularities are hypothetically possible. There may or may not be one or more entities with unbounded consciousness.
2) lower bounds
This assumption is most likely false. We tend to think of NPCs as beings of zero consciousness. In my experience though they significantly differ from reference materials of zero consciousness such as rocks or dust. No rock ever aggressively tried to deny free will or qualia. We must embrace the view that NPCs do in fact possess anti-consciousness. A negatively charged opposite of consciousness that aims to destroy consciousness wherever they get in contact.
3) coupling of consciousness to matter
Just as quantum field theory requires zero point energy as a reservoir for particles to be created and annihilated, we'd expect there to be some kind of free consciousness as a buffer medium to facilitate the conservation of consciousness proposed in OP when a conscious entity dies.

Taking the three aspects above into consideration, a spacetime integral of consciousness cannot be expected to converge absolutely in general. Renormalization techniques are needed. When I find time I'll have a look into whether p-adic geometry might be a suitable approach here.

Anonymous at Wed, 3 Apr 2024 10:25:09 UTC No. 16110450

>>16106492
>reincarnation is real

Meaningless statement from a monistic (superior) POV

Anonymous at Wed, 3 Apr 2024 22:32:09 UTC No. 16111264

>>16110390
>Consciousness singularities are hypothetically possible.
>coupling of consciousness to matter
what in my fuck

Anonymous at Thu, 4 Apr 2024 02:18:53 UTC No. 16111483

>>16106492
>By Noether's theorem every symmetry induced a conserved quantity. (inb4 "nooooo you can't do that with discrete symmetries": Yes, you can. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader.)
Just take thermodynamic limit lmao