Anonymous at Wed, 10 Apr 2024 17:21:06 UTC No. 16122661

>>16122634
this won't work, the less efficient non-functional societies will collapse and seethe about the successful ones, and then someone will have to hold the bag for them
there're other problems but it's the big one

successful societies are stable, no amount of cope about "no true communism/socialism/ancap/libertarianism/fascism" changes that. it just means you can never achieve your true society without welfare because it's a shit one

Anonymous at Wed, 10 Apr 2024 18:37:40 UTC No. 16122787

>>16122661
>it just means you can never achieve your true society without welfare because it's a shit one
could you elaborate on this? I didn't quite understand it.
>and then someone will have to hold the bag for them
why would you assume this to be inevitable?

Anonymous at Wed, 10 Apr 2024 18:47:00 UTC No. 16122796

>>16122787
>why would you assume this to be inevitable?
it's basic logic, and it happens in the world today. if the twitter communists go make their marxist society, in less than 5 years they'll all be starving or back to subsistence farming with no modern benefits
then an exodus will happen, and successful altruistic societies will become obligated to help refugees and that society out
>could you elaborate on this?
the most common rebuttal to "communism doesn't work" is "true communism never occurred", and then they usually blame capitalism for that
it's common because it is true that marxist communism has never been achieved. but their interpretation of this fact is that it's capitalists conspiring, instead of the system just being a failure that quickly degenerates into what every communist regime in history has degenerated into. Ancap and libertarians are on a different political spectrum but their systems are also shit

Anonymous at Wed, 10 Apr 2024 19:01:42 UTC No. 16122827

>>16122796
>if the twitter communists go make their marxist society
haven't read Marx myself, but i'd assume that twatters are nothing but keyboard warriors and virtue-signaling leeches. They'd be better people when dead, or better yet, exiled.
>and successful altruistic societies will become obligated to help refugees and that society out
what's that got to do with the society that exiled them? or the society which they left? Wouldn't it be better for them to be purged?

Anonymous at Wed, 10 Apr 2024 19:26:55 UTC No. 16122878

>>16122827
>Wouldn't it be better for them to be purged?
Modern narrative is that dominant successful societies are colonizers, privileged, oppressors, blah blah. In fact, people in productive societies are pro social and want to help others. The method to do it can be misguided and there can be conflict along the way. But it's been good for the world.
There is no stomach to just let them be purged. Social ties, empathy, altruism. It's why we don't let North Korea starve.
Also, there is an asymmetrical issue nowadays. Small extremists groups can inflict disproportionate damage on civilized societies if they leech the right resources, so we can't just leave them 100% alone.

Anonymous at Wed, 10 Apr 2024 20:18:49 UTC No. 16122984

>>16122878
if only there was a realistic way to set trends and control culture, then we -through controlling culture- would have been able to control the demand for any product. Peace as an example, is just a product with a focus test of billions, and when the test isn't successful, its description is altered. Anything can be monetized, and he who controls culture, controls society. I can think off the top of my head of things that would make society a better place if they were to be injected into modern cultures.

I don't know why it is that "productive" societies are pro social. It all doesn't matter if you turn into a mule that gets guilt-tripped into slaving away for your invaders.

Is there really no way besides gathering like-minded individuals and forming communes of some sort?
>There is no stomach to just let them be purged
what if there was a successful way for denizens to prosper under a dominion that just so happens to be able to "hold its stomach" for such ideas?

99+billion humans of the past were "right-wing extremists," if only one was able to sensibly explain a rational view that amasses people of that mentality -and apply his politics accordingly,- then we'd have seen a change.. but for some reason, all people who support such views are shown in the media to be crudely, vulgarly racist, just being racist without understanding why.

Anonymous at Wed, 10 Apr 2024 20:37:49 UTC No. 16123020

>>16122634
>Develop a broad-spectrum gene therapy
>Develop artificial wombs
>Everyone ends up majority white anyway
>Novel genetics also become possible
Are you wanting to actually, permanently solve race as an issue or are you just wanting to play culture games?

El Arcón at Wed, 10 Apr 2024 20:38:26 UTC No. 16123022

Different races in different places.

Anonymous at Wed, 10 Apr 2024 20:41:35 UTC No. 16123026

>>16123020
all of your solutions are economically unrealistic. How will you develop artificial wombs with the not nearly enough capital, and an infinite barrage of twatters that will invade any attempt to achieve progress through crappy humanitarianism?
>noooo it's inhumane!!!
>noooo i don't agree to it!!!
the question is not why, the question is how?

Anonymous at Thu, 11 Apr 2024 01:36:07 UTC No. 16123458

>>16122984
more complicated society needs more cooperation to sustain itself
90 billion "chuds" lived in very different worlds
there is more but it's the big one
the leftist is overly-"moral", the rightist is overly "immoral". it's not 1 axis, either

Anonymous at Thu, 11 Apr 2024 01:57:27 UTC No. 16123484

>>16122634
ITT:
- 'Love it or leave it!'
- 'Wouldn't it be great if we could just get rid of all the Xs?'
- 'I wish I could just force Xs to act like real, true Xs'.

It won't work because the 'ambivalents' in 'limbo' won't be some tiny %, they'll be the majority. Most people who grew up in a country, but dislike things about it, will want to reform it, over 'cutting all ties'.
If such a system was implemented, the 'ambivalents' would immediately vote it away or destroy it.