Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 18:43:09 UTC No. 16148750

hyping it up as
>LE GREATEST MYSTERY IN ALL OF EXISTENCE
only serves to hinder progress
maybe it's not a big mystery at all?

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 18:45:51 UTC No. 16148755

>>16148737
2 years ago > 200 years ago

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 18:49:12 UTC No. 16148763

>>16148755
Thats problem what they said 200 years ago also.

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 18:50:23 UTC No. 16148765

>>16148750
There's no way you're actually a conscious human

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:07:43 UTC No. 16148787

>>16148765
We shouldn't demand more from questions than what they entail. The consciousness question has been weighed down by excessive expectations, so it's no wonder that it seems like there can't be an answer. If we strip it down to only what it's essentially stating then the "greatest mystery of all time" will be much clearer

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:10:13 UTC No. 16148791

>>16148787
Then maybe you should be asking bigger questions about your consciousness.

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:11:06 UTC No. 16148794

>>16148737
Why are you convinced of it not being that?

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:13:18 UTC No. 16148798

>>16148794
Because its retarded

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:13:37 UTC No. 16148800

>>16148791
>can you please use science to discover exactly what I think consciousness is?
it doesn't work that way anon. sometimes you get stuck on an evolutionary hill and need to take a couple of steps back so you can go further. you've painted yourself into a shit corner and blame everyone else

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:15:03 UTC No. 16148802

>>16148798
>if it sounds like I wish it sounded it's real for sure
that's not really an argument

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:15:51 UTC No. 16148806

>>16148800
You have no idea what you're even talking about

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:19:27 UTC No. 16148814

>>16148802
You're trying to prove something that you have no capacity as a human to prove. Some things are beyond the laws of this world and the confines of your brain. You live in a box.

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:32:21 UTC No. 16148833

>>16148814
if it's based on the same working principles that our brain is, and displays the same type of neural activity, and says its conscious, then it is conscious. it's not so complicated.

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:33:45 UTC No. 16148834

>>16148737
I don't think it's entirely based on electrical activity. When electrical activity stops in your brain you are certainly unconscious. But you can become unconscious without total loss of brain activity. Fetuses also have electrical brain activity at about 8 weeks but are they conscious?. I don't know, i wouldn't really think so.

If duality was true though, where does your consciousness go if you bump your head and become unconscious? Unconscious being "without consciousness". If you've ever been unconscious you'd notice there's no sense of time at all unlike when you dream. Even if you don't dream during sleep it still feels like you've been asleep for some amount of time. When you're unconscious the duration between the start and end feels instant, you bump your head and then next thing you know you're conscious again

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:34:22 UTC No. 16148835

>>16148833
Yeah but if you really thought about what you just said you would realize there's way more to it than just that. For one you think there are objective "working principles"

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:35:40 UTC No. 16148840

>>16148834
I was still "conscious" recently while under general anesthesia which isn't supposed to be possible

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:36:57 UTC No. 16148842

>>16148840
that's called awareness during anaesthesia and is pretty rare. It's just related to the anaesthetic they gave you, it might not have been enough or some other kind of problem like that

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:38:17 UTC No. 16148844

>>16148834
Sometimes I wonder if people like you are actually even humans. You all seem the parrot the exact same things. Its like you've never had any kind of transcendental experience. You've probably spent your whole like being inundated with nothing but modern scholastic ideas about whatever and they've formed this whole structure in your mind for how you see reality. And anything that could be seen as invalidating that structure you just attribute to being caused by some error. You'd probably never even try hallucinogenic drugs because you're already convinced that they effects are just "altering your brain chemistry". Same goes for meditation or anything else.

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:39:19 UTC No. 16148846

>>16148842
Yup of course it is thanks doc

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:40:50 UTC No. 16148847

>>16148834
You know what it all comes down to is this. You believe what you're told, not what you've personally experienced or deeply believe to be true

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:46:24 UTC No. 16148862

>>16148835
What do you honestly(!) think is more likely, if we make a replica of someone's brain, neurons and connections between them, have both the original and synthetic one strapped to some fMRI and observe the firing patterns/activity, and synthetic replica behaves the same as the human? can philosophize, come up with ideas, same memories as human, literally indistinguishable from the human? would you be (completely randomly) willing to definitely state it isn't conscious? how the fuck would you even know such a thing? how would you think
>well weird indeed, fully acts like the human, no difference in experience with it, yet I'm sure he's not conscious
on what exactly would you base that judgement? scientifically speaking? observing its mental activity the same neural networks would fire up when thinking about things, or experiencing sounds/images? what can you realistically cling to that would deny what you observe and make you fucking sure there's no consciousness in there?

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 20:01:12 UTC No. 16148889

>>16148862
>willing to definitely state it isn't conscious?
Idk anon how do you know what robots aren't conscious? How do you know my shoe isn't conscious? Actually I think my shoe might be more aware of its own consciousness than you are.

DoctorGreen !DRgReeNusk at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 20:01:57 UTC No. 16148892

>>16148737
>your consciousness
bruh. you are the consciousness which is merely a part of a human.

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 20:03:02 UTC No. 16148894

>>16148889
shoes don't have brains anon. never though I would unironically say that.

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 20:06:37 UTC No. 16148902

>>16148894
Oh so you need a brain now to be conscious?

DoctorGreen !DRgReeNusk at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 20:06:37 UTC No. 16148903

>>16148862
>literally indistinguishable from the human?
impossible. due to the lack of heart and guts, it would deviate from the original template.
a clone genetically but a separate being memetically.
nonetheless you need to understand that the persona is a subproduct of the human. It is not the human himself.

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 20:11:06 UTC No. 16148911

>>16148844
there might be some fantastical reason for consciousness, but over much time we've found the answers for things occurring in reality are almost always pretty boring

DoctorGreen !DRgReeNusk at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 20:12:03 UTC No. 16148912

>>16148902
He is merely confusing consciousness with a person
a headless chicken is conscious and has a person (the ones caused by its heart and guts). But the idea of person we are familiar with (the one caused by the brain) is literally no found.
the headless chicken survived until it choked
trying to make headless humans for investigation is forbidden. it is said to be unethical... only because it would destroy both material and spiritual -isms

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 20:15:18 UTC No. 16148916

>>16148911
Maybe thats because they aren't the real answers

Anonymous at Sat, 27 Apr 2024 23:39:00 UTC No. 16149186

>>16148737
Because I can remove it entirely by falling into a deep sleep or by ingesting chemicals.
>>16148844
>Sometimes I wonder if people like you are actually even humans
Right back atcha, our defining advantage among animal species is the ability to distinguish reality from superstition.

🗑️ Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 00:11:48 UTC No. 16149240

5xx

Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 03:42:29 UTC No. 16149448

MEGA SCHIZO TRVTH NVKE INCOMING:
consciousness is being. we are. the universe is. There Is Something Instead Of Nothing.
But there is a problem: equilibrium, yin&yang, etc. There can't be good without bad. We (all things that ARE) want to feel GOOD, but can't feel GOOD without also feeling BAD.
We could have chosen to feel always OKAY, since feeling OKAY is better than feeling BAD, but we decided NOT to just accept this way of being where there has to be BAD for there to be GOOD.
So here we are in this universe, this current state of being where human brains harness a lot of the BEING (what we call consciousness) in order to try and solve this horrifying terrifying terrible impossible problem. Plus we get to feel good sometimes while we're at it.

>>16148834
>where does your consciousness go if you bump your head and become unconscious?
Existence stops manifesting itself in the physical world through your brain, you 'become unconscious'.
It's about the disruption of the OUR (all consciousness, all that is) ability to interact with the physical world through your body. ("physical world" as in the current existential paradigm)

>>16148844
this guy KNOWS. he has SEEN. even if he is being mean and rude.

Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 03:45:17 UTC No. 16149453

>>16148862
Indeed, the replica would begin harnessing some of the consciousness (some of the being, some of what is, some of the experiencing, you get the gist)
Could dive into solipsism here, "how do I know that others also experience?" but oh my god solipsism is just so annoying to work with and think about and it doesn't even really matter that much either way. If yin/yang is true (equilibrium of GOOD and BAD), you could absolutely for certain prove/disprove solipsism by measuring how much good and bad YOU (current conscious thing that you are, your current monkey chimp human body) experience, e.g if you experienced perfect equal amounts of good and bad for your entire life solipsism is TRUE, you were the only human that was truly conscious. If you didn't experience equal amounts of good and bad it means other things were also experiencing. Impossible to really measure that right now though.

Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 03:49:20 UTC No. 16149456

>>16149448 (me)
>>16149453 (me)
>So here we are in this universe, this current state of being where human brains harness a lot of the BEING (what we call consciousness) in order to try and solve this horrifying terrifying terrible impossible problem. Plus we get to feel good sometimes while we're at it.
I will clarify this/put this into clearer english words:
Collective consciousness' goal is to solve suffering.

bodhi at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 03:50:16 UTC No. 16149458

>>16148737

Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 03:52:20 UTC No. 16149464

All that's been shown is a correlation between brain activity and the levels of content of consciousness, however that says nothing about what consciousness is, which even Leibniz knew 350 years ago is irreducible to any mechanism.

Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 03:52:57 UTC No. 16149466

>>16148737
>Why are you convinced that your consciousness is just the end result of electrical activity in your brain?
I'm not, you have it backward. The electrical activity in my brain is the end result of my (possibly extradimensional) conscious electromagnetic being interfacing with the material world.

Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 03:57:39 UTC No. 16149469

Kind of funny that most "rational" people are still grasping for an esoteric answer to the question of consciousness.

Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 04:19:19 UTC No. 16149486

>>16149458
decent tldr from Claude Opus for those who Don't Want To Read All'at™:
>The article is about the work of neuroscientist Anil Seth on understanding consciousness. The key ideas are:

>Consciousness arises from the feeling of being alive and being oneself. It is about the subjective experience of having perceptions and feelings.
>Rather than seeing consciousness as a mystery, Seth believes it should be scientifically studied to understand its properties and how the brain and body create it.
>Seth proposes that our experience of reality is a "controlled hallucination" - the brain makes predictions about the world which are then updated by sensory information. Our perception is an active construction by the brain rather than a passive reception of external stimuli.
>Consciousness is rooted in basic experiences and perceptions of the body's physiological state. It is distinct from intelligence and Seth cautions against trying to create artificial consciousness.

>In summary, the article presents Seth's view that consciousness emerges from brain and body processes that can be studied scientifically, and his theory that subjective experience is a constructive process of the brain predicting and modeling the world. The overall aim is to naturalize consciousness and ground it in biological mechanisms.

Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 04:20:39 UTC No. 16149487

>>16149469
What else should they be doing?

Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 04:36:28 UTC No. 16149498

>>16148911
gr and qm are pretty exciting

Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 04:56:53 UTC No. 16149503

>>16149487
Looking at the pure physical mechanics instead of grasping supposed ethereal straws.

Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 05:06:18 UTC No. 16149506

>>16149486
Absolute rubbish.

Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 05:13:48 UTC No. 16149509

>>16149506
the quality of the tldr or Anil Seth's work? Poster of that tldr should have put a reminder to reply to OP of the image instead of his post to avoid this mixup
>>16149486
reminder to reply to Anil.jpg OP instead of this tldr

Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 05:16:32 UTC No. 16149511

>>16148737
Maybe electricity is fractal enough for there to he some fuzz to that worth endlessly splitting hairs on

Anonymous at Sun, 28 Apr 2024 05:32:01 UTC No. 16149515

>>16149509
Calling consciousness a "hallucination". All these attempts to naturalize consciousness fail miserably.