Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:01:59 UTC No. 16178156

1) You have the positive charge of the nucleus attracting them.
2) Quantum Mechanics.

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:02:52 UTC No. 16178157

electron shells and shit. Atoms have autistic meltdowns when they don't have it their way

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:03:35 UTC No. 16178158

>>16178156
yeah it's the quantum mechanics that I don't really get, I know about the different spins but I still don't get why they would pair up, wouldn't it make more sense if they were as spread out in the electron shells as possible?

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:05:12 UTC No. 16178160

Megnetism. Other makes a north pole, other makes south pole

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:17:34 UTC No. 16178167

>>16178152
they do, they don't stick together like in those graphs, they're traveling in orbitals

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:19:27 UTC No. 16178171

>>16178167
So... they aren't in pairs? I'm getting more confused the more I look into it honestly

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:23:19 UTC No. 16178178

>>16178171
yeah Its more like a cloud of electrons around an atom

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:26:27 UTC No. 16178181

>>16178178
man I wrote emails to all the physics teachers at my school and half of them say that they're paired up due to magnetism and other quantum mechanics and the other half are saying what you are saying and that they aren't actually paired up at all and it's more of a metaphorical thing to make it simpler to understand
I don't fucking get this shit at all

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:26:53 UTC No. 16178182

>>16178158

The Pauli Exclusivity Principle means that not two electrons with the same spin can share the same orbital. If they have opposite spin, they can.

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:31:59 UTC No. 16178185

>>16178182
Yeah I get that, but why would they be paired up? Or if they aren't actually paired, why would people say that they are?

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:37:26 UTC No. 16178192

>>16178181
scientist can't actually pin point the exact location of where an electron is at a specific time. The electron cloud model is used to show the general location of electrons around an atom

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:43:17 UTC No. 16178193

>>16178185
> Or if they aren't actually paired, why would people say that they are?
It's a useful visualisation device. Mathematically they are two almost identical quantum states that only differ in their spin orientation, hence people draw simple (but incorrect) diagrams of them in pairs.

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:45:45 UTC No. 16178198

>>16178193
Okay, so the're called pairs simply because they share all the quantum numbers except for the spin number?

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:47:01 UTC No. 16178199

>>16178198
Correct.

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 10:58:24 UTC No. 16178205

>>16178156
are you insinuating 'quantum mechanics' was the 'magic' of our time ?
>>16178152
I only once attended a course on solid-state physics and this wasn't part of it, my knowledge here is limited but my suspicion would be that, if you imagine common crystal structures, you'll find lines and points where youd imagine the field to be neutral, as those would be equidistant to neighbouring and through symmetry all other charges. I'd expect the electrons to have a very high probability of being there at any one time. Furthest away from other electrons and equidistant from positive charges. If that means cramming two into that same space so be it. Unless someone can show its the electron pair that binds the atoms and the electron pair is not a side effect of atom binding I will entertain this possivility.

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:03:09 UTC No. 16178206

>>16178205
correction:
Now that im thinking of it. Aparently because of energy levels and stuff certain electron configurations vome with low enthalpy. Those are configurations where valence bands are completely occupied. Aparently its not necessary for the atom having an electron to itself exclusively. So atoms with 4 electrons each can be laid out on a grid and share valenece electrons to fill up their valence bands.

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:21:05 UTC No. 16178229

>>16178152
>Shouldn't they be repelling each other?
Yes, and they do
>Why do electrons form pairs when they're the same charge?
Magnetism

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:22:35 UTC No. 16178231

>>16178152
spin is the magnetic analog to charge. the electrons need to pair up to cancel out spins, otherwise magnetic forces would tear the atom apart.

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:23:13 UTC No. 16178232

>>16178229
>>16178231
ok now get in a ring with >>16178193

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:25:30 UTC No. 16178237

>>16178232
you can induce fine structure in the atom by lifting the degeneracy

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:25:33 UTC No. 16178238

>>16178232
"Muh abstractions" is a sign that your prof doesn't know what he's talking about

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:30:03 UTC No. 16178245

>>16178192
>>16178178
>>16178181
okay, so let's take the cloud model. how do you explain different atoms bonding together by sharing valence electrons via the cloud model?

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:34:57 UTC No. 16178254

>>16178245
You don't. You superimpose different models to give a clearer understanding of how electrons work.
"Clouds" = how the electrons are spatially distributed
P- and S- orbitals = how angular momentum is conserved in bonding
Lewis Dot diagrams = how electron pairing forms bonds

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:35:25 UTC No. 16178256

>>16178232

>>16178229 & >>16178231 aren't completely wrong, but they aren't giving the the full story either.
Electrons do repulse each other and that affects the energy levels of each state but that repulsion can be minimized by the electrons having different angular momentums and so interact less strongly (think of it like they are less frequently in the same location so any repulsion is reduced). Go look up Hund's rules.

It's the same for spin, because electrons have spin (an intrinsic magnetic moment) to minimize the energy configuration of the atom means that "paired" electrons are a low energy state than two electrons in different orbits. You could describe that as "because magnetism" but it's kind of a simplistic explanation.

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:40:58 UTC No. 16178262

>>16178245
to fill a valence electron shell the two atoms share an electron because its the most convient for them. The electron cloud model is used because we don't know the exact location of the electron.

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:41:49 UTC No. 16178264

>>16178254
that's not what superimpose means. superimpose means to use BOTH models simultaneously. for example wave-particle duality superimposes the two models via huygen's principle, or the 1st and 2nd quantizations, or a wave packet. it's not "oh the electron is sometimes a particle, or sometimes a wave whatever is convenient cuh!" it's "the electron is both a wave and a particle at all times, and is modeled by the schrodinger equation and pauli's symmetry principle"

so i'll ask again. how do you explain the different atoms bonding together by sharing valence electrons via the cloud model? lewis dot diagram has no clouds.

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:46:31 UTC No. 16178270

>>16178264
I'm not talking quantum superimposition, it's a heuristic tool for making approximations in the lab.
>muh wave-particle
Sperg.

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:48:05 UTC No. 16178272

>>16178270
i'm not talking about quantum superposition either. if you want more examples, rolling motion is also superposition via translational + rotational = rolling. or wave 1 + wave 2 = wave composition (fourier series). if you want to superimpose the two models, you need to use BOTH models. so where does the cloud model come into play in the lewis dot structure model?

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:55:27 UTC No. 16178276

>>16178272
It doesn't. They're separate models for separate functions.

For bonding, use Lewis Dot diagrams. Cloud models are only useful for kinetics and perturbations.

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:56:23 UTC No. 16178278

>>16178272
Electron Clouds: Represent regions in space where there is a high probability of finding an electron.

Orbitals: These clouds are defined by orbitals, which are mathematical functions derived from quantum mechanics that describe the probability distribution of electrons.

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 11:57:30 UTC No. 16178280

>>16178278
that doesn't explain atomic bonding via valence shells

Anonymous at Thu, 16 May 2024 12:03:06 UTC No. 16178285

>>16178152
It's just all totally wrong, like all other science.

Anonymous at Fri, 17 May 2024 01:02:24 UTC No. 16179169

>>16178285
What is not wrong then?

Anonymous at Fri, 17 May 2024 01:22:45 UTC No. 16179186

>>16178152
Two spinning magnets in a vacuum will attract when far away, and repel when close.

Anonymous at Fri, 17 May 2024 05:36:26 UTC No. 16179399

>>16178152
Here's a good video for you OP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36GT2zI8lVA