Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 13:21:52 UTC No. 16189487

>>16189476
>why does higher organ specialization lead to more consolidated bodyplan
truly a mistery

Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 13:23:37 UTC No. 16189491

In order to successfully have a second pair of eyes form, you would need
1) A second orbit to store it in
2) A second pair of optic nerves
3) A second pair of oculomotor nerves
4) A second set of nuclei for the same
5) A second set of connections to vestibular and cerebellar tracks to allow for oculovestibular response
6) A second set of extraocular muscles to be innervated by the second set of oculomotor nerves
7) A new blood supply
8) Foramina for said blood supply in the skull
9) A second set of tear ducts
10) A second set of eyelids with palpebral muscles and innervations
11) A second set of innervations from V1 to allow for blink response, tearing in response to dryness, etcetera

and that's just what I can think up first thing in the morning.

On top of that, it would have to convey a fitness advantage.

Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 13:23:51 UTC No. 16189492

>>16189476
Lol

Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 14:29:34 UTC No. 16189567

>>16189491
In a hypothetical case, there is no law that not having a given trait is because it would be a disadvantage. Obviously, psychic powers would be a significant advantage, but nobody has evolved that.
All of your cost analysis is easily set aside: it is called evolution of the gaps.

Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 15:00:58 UTC No. 16189612

>>16189567
>My counterargument: magic doesn't exist either
Okay

Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 15:16:36 UTC No. 16189631

>>16189567
Nobody's evolved teleportation powers either, despite how useful they would be. Therefore evolution is a lie.

Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 15:53:38 UTC No. 16189666

>>16189631
Conclusion does not follow. The point is that not every advantaged trait has come around, and not every trait around is advantaged over an alternative.
The reading comprehension of materialists is abysmal.

Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 15:55:12 UTC No. 16189667

>>16189666
you're such a dumb fucking idiot holy shit lmao

Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 16:11:08 UTC No. 16189681

>>16189491
>3) A second pair of oculomotor nerves
You would also need a second pair of trochlear and abducens nerves, because for some reason 2 eye moving muscles need separate nerves.

Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 16:21:30 UTC No. 16189691

>>16189476
Yet another question that debunks evolution and shows why it has no merit intellectually. Keep em comin

Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 21:13:49 UTC No. 16190128

>>16189476
Fish, frogs and some lizards also have non-imageforming parietal eye. In mammals, this parietal eye is within our skull and is known as the pineal gland.

It is also hypothesized that the first vertebrate was a predator animal. This favors the development of 3d vision with depth perception.

Our camera eyes also allow higher spatial resolution within a smaller space than insect compound eyes or octopus camera eyes.

Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 21:24:00 UTC No. 16190143

It's benefit vs cost. Retina and visual processing consumes lot of energy. Fish can capture prey with just two eyes, so they dont need any extra.

All fish and their relatives are basically overdeveloped tunicate larvae, so that also puts some constrains

Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 21:58:09 UTC No. 16190193

>>16189476
>-mammals incljuding human, two binocular camera eyes
We have more. really long story, will write it up tomorrow.

Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 21:59:30 UTC No. 16190195

>>16190143
>overdeveloped tunicate larva

there is no proof of that, at least genetics have not shown this connection

instead it looks more like it that tunicate are degenerated vertebrates that lost most of their advanced features for the benefit of conquering a sessile lifestyle where there is no true competition for them

(mass extinctions killed most crustaceans capable of doing the same what tunicates are doing, this happened 250 million years ago, while first fish is about 500 million years old so tunicates probably degenerated from primitive fish 400 million to 250 million years ago)

Anonymous at Thu, 23 May 2024 22:00:10 UTC No. 16190197

>>16190193
If you mention the pineal gland I'm gonna hunt you irl

Anonymous at Fri, 24 May 2024 11:30:23 UTC No. 16190957

Bump

Anonymous at Fri, 24 May 2024 12:38:46 UTC No. 16191005

>>16190193
>We have more
Really looking forward to learning about this

Anonymous at Sat, 25 May 2024 07:05:32 UTC No. 16192227

>>16190193
>>16190197
>>16191005
Ok so, we really have this third eye INSIDE our heads. It's called the pineal gland. It secretes the hormone melatonin, which is a major driver for circadian rhythmicity!

Anonymous at Sat, 25 May 2024 13:26:51 UTC No. 16192577

>>16190197
Hilarious, but no.

>>16192227
It is not particularly effective in humans.

>>16191005
It is a kind of party trick that children love but it is working, honestly. Most humans can do this but strangely people have to learn or made ware of this.

Start by closing your eyes and pass your hand slowly across your face as close to your skin as possible but, importantly, not without touching. There must be no wind or draught and the air should be dry and not hot. You will sense thermal radiation from your hand (and to a lesser degree warm air convection) onto your face. Ask people exactly where they sense the hand the most, and they will discover that both depressions just outside the nasal wings are the most sensitive parts.

The reason is that these areas have very thin skin and are a bit moist, so that you get local cooling, which enhances the termal sensitivity. It is hardly on par with crygenically cooled thermal cameras favoured by the military, but this is sufficient to work and even provide angular sensitivity. And this is also how rattle snakes sense thermal sources. Next stage is to use a small candle, and by closing your eyes, concentrating on these pits, you can turn your head site to side and determine the angle fairly accurately with the candle 1 m away. Some can sense it even more distant.

Now ask your audience if there is another area and some will report that the upper lip is also sensitive, though not as sensitive as the pits. So the two pits provide azimuth angle and the upper lip provides elevantion angle. In my experience, small children are ectatic at this point!

Anonymous at Sat, 25 May 2024 13:30:44 UTC No. 16192580

>>16192577
(2/2)
Ok, so there are a few obvious questions about this, like just why do we have this sense, and why are so few aware of it? Yet it takes just 5 minutes to demonstrate this. More mysteriously, in Africa with hot and humid climate, this will not work. The humidity prevents evaporative cooling of the pits and sensitivity plummets. Our ancestors the primates, are far too hairy in the face that this can be expected to work, so this might be something that arose when humans left Africa. I am not sure it works with black Africans, their skin structure is subtly different, and lack the features that came with Neanderthal genes.

I have asked around and one hypothesis was that this is something that lets half blind babies find their mother's breasts, which is important for survival.

Anonymous at Sat, 25 May 2024 13:34:03 UTC No. 16192584

>>16192577
>>16192580
If it doesn't involve opsin proteins, it is not related to eyes and vision at all. Thermal sense is mediated by TRP channels

Anonymous at Sat, 25 May 2024 16:10:55 UTC No. 16192735

>>16189681
>for some reason
it just works

Anonymous at Sat, 25 May 2024 17:42:26 UTC No. 16192844

>>16192584
>If it doesn't involve opsin proteins,
That is why I framed the statement rather carefully in >>16190193
>it is not related to eyes and vision at all.
That depends on your definition of vision. A rattlsnake uses what is essentially a single pixel sensor and moves its head back and forth to get a sense of both the distance and the size of the object. That is why drivers who stop the car to unload the bladder on a cool night is more likely to be seen by a rattlesnake as suitably sized snack.
>Thermal sense is mediated by TRP channels
The human brain is able to for a visual impression by many means, like pic. related.

Anonymous at Sat, 25 May 2024 17:56:12 UTC No. 16192868

>>16189476
evolution can't do anything because evolution is false

Dave at Sat, 25 May 2024 20:06:26 UTC No. 16193021

>>16189666
>Conclusion does not follow. The point is that not every advantaged trait has come around, and not every trait around is advantaged over an alternative.
>The reading comprehension of materialists is abysmal.

you are a joke

Anonymous at Sat, 25 May 2024 20:42:29 UTC No. 16193068

>>16193021
And you are fat with blue hair. Neither of these are an advantageous trait, and yet, you are also retarded. All of which confirming the sentiment, which you also failed to deny. Shietttt.

Anonymous at Sun, 26 May 2024 06:28:56 UTC No. 16193660

>>16193068
>muh troons everywhere

Anonymous at Sun, 26 May 2024 10:15:09 UTC No. 16193897

>>16192844And what is your definition of vision? If any sort of electromagnetic radiation causes a tingle?

Anonymous at Sun, 26 May 2024 22:15:57 UTC No. 16194843

>>16193897
Anything that can give you an impression of an image, at least a vague outline.

Anonymous at Mon, 27 May 2024 10:28:35 UTC No. 16195587

>>16190193
Perhaps time to continue with near infrared vision in humans? This one may satisify the opsin-anon.

Anonymous at Mon, 27 May 2024 21:57:22 UTC No. 16196609

>>16189487
I wonder

Anonymous at Tue, 28 May 2024 08:35:48 UTC No. 16197390

>>16189691
Based retard

Anonymous at Tue, 28 May 2024 09:52:12 UTC No. 16197449

>>16189476
>why cant evolution make more eyes?
Either you go the human route.
( gigantic complex super brain combined with simple eyes )
Or you go the mantis shrimp route -
( small stupid primitive nerve ganglia connected to eyes that can see ultraviolet, infrar-red and polarized light )

Anonymous at Tue, 28 May 2024 11:14:50 UTC No. 16197529

>>16189476
how the fuck is it possible to see if a spider is female or male lol?

Anonymous at Tue, 28 May 2024 12:37:08 UTC No. 16197611

>>16197529
>how the fuck is it possible to see if a spider is female or male lol?
Males 95% of the time are smaller than females.

Anonymous at Tue, 28 May 2024 12:39:04 UTC No. 16197618

>>16197611
You can check their genitalia under microscope

Anonymous at Tue, 28 May 2024 12:42:01 UTC No. 16197622

>>16189491
People have evolutioned themselves into somehow getting microplastics in their balls. The rules are out the window when it comes to natural selection and "what is advantageous". Just give me my fucking additional eyes so that I may closer look at the majesty of God and give me more eyes to cover at the shame of man.

Anonymous at Tue, 28 May 2024 13:49:58 UTC No. 16197701

>>16197449
humans probably descend from box jellyfish because box jellyfish has camera eyes (they are super small camera eyes) just like a human

jellyfish eyes have single optical nerve that travels to the medusa central nervous system

there are 16 eyes and 16 optical nerves

medusa doesnt have an actual brain but central nervous system is directly connected to the eyes

they do not have a sense of smell or touch, or hearing, only seeing

but the thing is, medusa eyes is more similar to human eye rather than to insect eye

its like insect eyes just appear out of nowhere being evolutionarily not connected to even lower life forms

Anonymous at Tue, 28 May 2024 15:33:35 UTC No. 16197791

>>16197701
>its like insect eyes just appear out of nowhere being evolutionarily not connected to even lower life forms

Yeah, trilobites independently evolved compound eyes.
You get one simple tube eye, Add another, then another etc
evolutionarily speaking it makes sense.

Anonymous at Tue, 28 May 2024 16:47:29 UTC No. 16197871

>>16197791
trilobites were the ancestors of the insects, they disappeared from the sea but lived on on the land

Anonymous at Tue, 28 May 2024 16:49:31 UTC No. 16197876

>>16197701
>medusa central nervous system

Anonymous at Wed, 29 May 2024 08:31:51 UTC No. 16198873

>>16197871
>trilobites were the ancestors of the insects, they disappeared from the sea but lived on on the land

The only commonality between Insects and Trilobites is that they are both part of the Phylum anthropoda.
Trilobites are so ancient and primitive that they aren't even part of the clade Pancrustacea that includes Insects and crustaceans.
Rather unsurprisingly it looks like the closest living relatives of trilobites are horseshoe crabs.

Anonymous at Wed, 29 May 2024 10:06:53 UTC No. 16198948

>>16189487
Someone built them all.

Anonymous at Wed, 29 May 2024 10:08:07 UTC No. 16198949

>>16189567
Psychic powers could easily be detrimental to survival.
Scientists constantly assume tbey know what's advantageous and they have no clue.

Anonymous at Wed, 29 May 2024 11:57:39 UTC No. 16199010

>>16189476
Why cant evolution make more eyes ?
Because the human organism is fairly complex already.
Prototypical features only seem to evolve in very basic organisms. Aparently it's one thing for a lump of cells to mutate a few cells that are sensitive to light, from where all its descendants might evolve those into something as eyes. But a completely different thing for a species to develop additional specialized and complex copies of an organ.
On a sidenote: The girl with three eyes ? You would !?

Anonymous at Wed, 29 May 2024 21:39:13 UTC No. 16199737

>>16198949
>Psychic powers could easily be detrimental to survival.
Citation needed.

Anonymous at Thu, 30 May 2024 07:51:12 UTC No. 16200437

>>16199737
According to schizo logic, psychic powers = glow in the dark, which is detrimental for survival against predators

Anonymous at Thu, 30 May 2024 19:58:15 UTC No. 16201265

>>16199010
yeah even if having 3 eyes were of utmost importance, with somehow very strong and specific pressure, it still wouldn't happen because impossible at this stage.

Anonymous at Fri, 31 May 2024 04:55:32 UTC No. 16202023

>>16200437
kek

Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jun 2024 05:30:52 UTC No. 16203662

>>16199010
>On a sidenote: The girl with three eyes ? You would !?
If she had big boobs

Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jun 2024 06:01:02 UTC No. 16203697

>>16199010
>girl with three eyes

lets cut to the chase, how many vaginas

Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jun 2024 06:13:26 UTC No. 16203707

>>16189476
probably not worth the load on the brain considering

Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jun 2024 22:03:32 UTC No. 16205216

>>16198873
>horseshoe crabs
And these seem to have a lot of eyes, also of different types.