🧵 Brain computer interfaces
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jun 2024 14:25:20 UTC No. 16207847
Opinions on Precision's new BCI?
https://precisionneuro.io/product
https://arstechnica.com/science/202
>Precision's device does not penetrate the brain at all, but sits on top of the brain.
>The device contains at least one yellow film, said to be a fifth the thickness of a human hair, that contains 1,024 electrodes embedded in a lattice pattern. The device is modular, allowing for multiple films to be added to each device.
>The films can be slipped onto the brain in a minimally invasive surgery that requires cutting only a thin slit in the skull
>If the implant needs to be removed, the film is designed to slide off the brain without causing damage
>The processing unit that collects data from the electrodes is designed to sit between the skull and the scalp
Do you consider this a superior design compared to Neuralink BCI?
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jun 2024 14:30:21 UTC No. 16207855
>>16207847
>Do you consider this a superior design compared to Neuralink BCI?
no it's inferior.
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jun 2024 14:35:23 UTC No. 16207858
>>16207847
What remains to be proven is if surface-level contact electrodes address the same areas of the brain that actual probes do. It'd be a breakthrough if it works.
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jun 2024 18:20:11 UTC No. 16208134
>>16207855
>it's inferior
Expand on why.
>>16207858
They are already testing on humans, as for what design gives the most accurate signal who knows, it might come down to a compromise between invasiveness and bandwidth.
https://youtu.be/3jwVBroYd3Q?t=237
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jun 2024 18:33:30 UTC No. 16208167
tranny thread
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jun 2024 22:51:54 UTC No. 16208584
>>16207847
>yellow film
>1,024 electrodes embedded in a lattice pattern
Did Elon just get BTFO'd by a piece of kapton sticky tape?
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jun 2024 23:30:03 UTC No. 16208664
>>16207847
>>16207855
>>16207858
>>16208584
Why do you want to insert a glorified arduino into your brain? You realize that’s all it is. A glorified arduino, this isn’t cyberpunk and you look like a retard.
We don’t understand the brain or comciousness enough to do anything cool, likely never will, controlling this with your thoughts is the body verison of controlling an xbox wit a kinekt and thinking “wow I am running inside the game” and that’s being too generous.
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jun 2024 23:36:55 UTC No. 16208679
>>16208664
If you look up who these devices are installed in and what they are used for, you'd know that these implants are primarily used for treating people who are either completely paralyzed (quadriplegic) or blind (damage to the optic nerve and retina only, congenitally blind and brain damaged individuals are out of luck). In these cases some input, anything at all, is considered after a full evaluation of the risks to be better than a life without them.
Anonymous at Mon, 3 Jun 2024 23:40:06 UTC No. 16208686
>>16208664
>A glorified arduino
It should be as simple as possible, it needs to have the electrodes, a chip to convert the brain electric signals from analog to digital and a way to trasmit them outside, the chip is not supposed to be a general purpose computer.
>We don’t understand the brain
Good opportunity to study it.
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 00:07:35 UTC No. 16208730
Is this designed to write information or read only?
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 00:22:10 UTC No. 16208749
>>16208730
not even remotely accurate enough to write shit
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 01:54:09 UTC No. 16208912
>>16208664
>Why do you want to insert a glorified arduino into your brain?
So I can have a HUD in real life.
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 05:45:48 UTC No. 16209266
>>16208664
fuck you I want to be able to have a full body orgasm with the push of a button.
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 12:56:27 UTC No. 16209692
>>16208664
>>16209266
>Why do you want to insert a glorified arduino into your brain
>full body orgasm with the push of a button
That's just the start, once the technology gets improved and refined it could be the hardware that makes actual full dive VR possible, it would literally make reality obsolete.
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 13:18:49 UTC No. 16209714
Will we ever reach a point where it's just an external removable helmet? I don't want shit in my brain I'm very squeamish
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 15:22:22 UTC No. 16209888
>>16208584
>>yellow film
>kapton tape
seriously, I want to know, is it just kapton and some wire? Can they even patent this?
>>16209714
>external removable helmet
That's what we have now. The problem with that is the helmet is receiving brain signals through your scalp and skull so the signal is, for lack of a better word, it's blurry.
Anonymous at Wed, 5 Jun 2024 08:17:44 UTC No. 16211202
Wil China have an advantage in the future in this field condering they don't give a fuck about the moralfaggotry tha infest the West?
https://www.wired.com/story/china-b
Anonymous at Wed, 5 Jun 2024 13:34:55 UTC No. 16211506
>>16211202
How would a Chinese know that their brain chip is working? They already behave as a soulless hivemind
Anonymous at Wed, 5 Jun 2024 13:38:37 UTC No. 16211515
>>16211506
>behave as a soulless hivemind
That's literally Americans, the invisible hand tells them how to live their life down to the smallest detail.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 08:12:04 UTC No. 16213283
bump
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 09:51:37 UTC No. 16213412
>>16208664
Anon, I fail to see how it's an arduino. An arduino has what, like 8 analog pins? Neuralink has like 1024 electrodes, sure it might reduce down a bit after some signal processing, but it's still more than 8. I'm not getting one unless it has much, much more electrodes than that.
>We don’t understand the brain or comciousness enough to do anything cool,
we don't need to understand the brain to do cool stuff. The brain is very good at learning how to use hardware, take for example blind people being able to see using electrodes on their tongues or with arrays of vibrators on their backs. It's been shown that mice are able to learn how to use a neural interface connected to an infrared sensor to find IR light sources:
https://www.science.org/content/art
It might be possible to use high bandwidth neural interfaces to interact with computers in ways we cannot right now. The brain might be able to learn to control all pixels on a screen at once or how to use a computer to store and retrieve memories. Neural interfaces today still only have as much bandwidth as a computer mouse, but getting a stable connection is more important than high bandwidth at the moment.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 10:19:43 UTC No. 16213452
>>16209692
> full dive VR
Biologically impossible.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 14:28:58 UTC No. 16216184
>>16211515
Retard. Are you Chinese? You're a retard.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 17:25:58 UTC No. 16217144
>>16208664
>glorified
>cyberpunk
>comciousness
Shut up midwit
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 17:41:29 UTC No. 16217235
>>16213452
How so? Put something that goes between your spine, eyes, and ears and relays different signals when in use. Without near magical tech like nanomachines this is a horrifingly dangerous medical procedure. Running a simulation detailed enough so as to be indistinguishable fron reality will be quite difficult too. Simulating touch will be a pain. One would probably need a detailed full body FEA simulation running at high speed to reproduce touch sensations
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 18:11:12 UTC No. 16217337
>>16208664
>likely never will
What's up with these doomniggers
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 18:22:59 UTC No. 16217399
>>16207847
There won't be many breakthroughs until better signal resolution and transduction / fidelity are achieved in a scalable fashion. I suspect CB / BI research will drive a lot of the technological improvements in that field; I'd look out for protein manufacturing and neuron modeling if I were searching for BCI companies to invest in.
>>16213452
>>16217235
It will be a very long time before we can simulate a human body at high enough spacial and temporal resolution to accurately assess it for the reduction procedures required for these sorts of technologies. I reckon at least 100 years, at current rates of technological improvement.
🗑️ Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 18:24:57 UTC No. 16217415
>>16207847
My opinion is that the government should round up transhumanists and keep them in anprim camps where they have to grow their own food and manufacturer furniture until they die.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 21:39:10 UTC No. 16218096
>>16217235
> Put something that goes between your spine, eyes, and ears and relays different signals when in use
Yes, I agree this is feasible in principal. What I was talking about though was a BCIs where wires are haphazardly stabbed into the brain rather than using the proper channels.
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 08:27:41 UTC No. 16219094
>>16217415
How did end up on /sci?
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 21:23:54 UTC No. 16220634
>>16209888
>Can they even patent this?
They can of course file an application, but it is unlikely they will get it granted. There is already a lot of prior art here.
I had a brief look through their patent portfolio but could not find an application for that form of electrode, though of course it might be filed but not yet published.
Systems and methods for insertion, readout and processing are more the fields where it is at.
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 21:29:53 UTC No. 16220649
>>16208749
You don't need accuracy to write shit. Just send it into an area that already deals with input data, let the brain figure out the rest. See: Dobelle Eye.
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 22:14:49 UTC No. 16220736
>>16217337
People get uncomfortable when science and technology start treading in God's exclusive territory.
Anonymous at Sat, 8 Jun 2024 15:54:16 UTC No. 16222128
>>16217399
>at high enough spacial and temporal resolution
You would be surprised how low resilution there is in military simulators but I can assure you that people accept low res virtual reality as fully immersive.
Anonymous at Sat, 8 Jun 2024 22:45:56 UTC No. 16223032
>>16211202
They are also discussing openly gene editing soldiers and also the general population. CCP just sees no limit.
Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 02:08:30 UTC No. 16223468
>>16209692
Yeah, bro. Let's create Hell, and give humans the power to send one another there.
Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 02:17:29 UTC No. 16223496
>>16208167
*transHUMANIST thread
ftfy.
Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 02:53:18 UTC No. 16223567
Brains are Zero Sum chemical reactions.
Which means for every hydrogenated proton and sodium potassium reaction, the chemical reaction is expected to be neutralized or moved away.
Now add an electrical device... ANY ELECTRICAL DEVICE, which emits free electrons. How does a zero sum chemical reaction balance that out?
What is to be expected as unexpected electrons are added into the system? Leftover chemicals turning into high sodium or high potassium crusts. As these ionic chemicals are still needed for cognitive reactions, they won't be dumped from the brain as excess can still be utilized. But reliance on pure electrical stimulation should logically result in an excess of unused sodium & potassium ions around neural clusters.
Think of the nasty crust that builds up at the ends of alkaline batteries. Building up around your nerves causing your brain to get literally crusty.
Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 11:44:37 UTC No. 16224244
>>16223567
>Now add an electrical device... ANY ELECTRICAL DEVICE, which emits free electrons.
A normal electrical device is part of a circuit so en equal number of charges are removed as thenumber that is added. A free electron, on the other hand, would come from a damaging process such as a radioactive source, causing ionizing radiation, which will cause damage,
>How does a zero sum chemical reaction balance that out?
Anti oxidants can help, but you are then deep in a damage limitation scenario.
Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 21:41:33 UTC No. 16225459
>>16207847
>chink hacker hacks your Neuralink and spams your brain with 1000 goatse.jpg per second
没有什么私人的,孩子
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 01:25:23 UTC No. 16225939
>>16209266
Show me your boyhole and I'll push your orgasm button, cupcake.
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 01:36:03 UTC No. 16225959
>>16207855
underrated
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 01:52:17 UTC No. 16225986
>>16223567
>which emits free electrons
lol
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 03:33:05 UTC No. 16226122
>>16225986
https://derangedphysiology.com/main
https://derangedphysiology.com/main
The key points are, if you had an oxygen diffuser that added oxygen directly to the blood, you could end up suffocating because the blood NEEDS carbon dioxide releases to release oxygen to nearby tissues.
You can mechanically hijack this process, but the human body expects a certain chemical reaction to release the oxygen and self-regulates by "chemical need" rather than abundant supply.
It's why humans just cannot stick a D-battery up their bunghole and be energized like a cup of caffeine. The excess electrons can "be dealt with", but don't actually lend any extra chemical energy to the people. Theoretically, you could add a steady current of electrons by sewing a button-cell lithium battery under the skin.
The human body tends to act like a flush toilet with chemicals. If deficient in a molecule it can create, it starts creating a bunch of it in the affected cells. Once the tipping point is reached, it begins to release other chemicals to disassemble that molecule. Therein it acts as a zero sum self regulation system, likewise it can use histamine to flush excess chemicals from cells.
So what happens when you've got an excess of electrons in your system? The body assumes an excess of potassium ions and sodium ions are building up and either breaks them down, or flushes them away, of caches them where they can cause minimal damage. The brain is a special case as lots of sodium ions and potassium ions are used, so an excess isn't seen as a grave issue right away. Until cell death occurs by cell membranes collapse or explode from osmotic membrane ion saturation. Which then results in a stroke, or brain hemorrhage, of crusty mineral build up.
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 03:45:22 UTC No. 16226133
>>16207847
panties up the buttcrack.
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 04:09:57 UTC No. 16226152
>>16225459
Basado
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 04:40:43 UTC No. 16226180
>>16208730
>>16208749
Dunno if its got write capabilities, but Neuralink has both read and write.
>read demonstrated
Humans, pigs, monkeys
>write demonstrated
pigs,monkeys
Both read/write have been demonstrated too on neuralink.
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 04:47:27 UTC No. 16226191
>>16213412
>Neuralink has like 1024 electrodes
I think they're up to 4K they want to go well beyond 32K afaik
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 05:35:16 UTC No. 16226217
>>16226122
Electrical current does not introduce "extra electrons". That isn't how it works. It moves existing electrons.
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 21:29:29 UTC No. 16227464
>>16226180
Are they planning to provide write (as in into the brain) capability for human use? If so, is that into audio or visual centres, or something else?
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 21:32:47 UTC No. 16227467
>>16227464
visual (blindness) and (motor) legs/arms for the paralyzed and make them move.
I'm sure others like auditory can be added too, along with sonar/pressure/etc. All the neuralink needs is a sensor on your phone or something then it would feed the sensor data back to the brain.
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 22:56:55 UTC No. 16227610
>>16226133
I love her so much
Anonymous at Tue, 11 Jun 2024 04:58:47 UTC No. 16227967
>>16208664
These devices could genuinely redefine the treatment of people with deformities and lost bodily function, and help develop preventative treatments for horrifying illnesses like Alzheimers. I know being a smug unfeeling faggot is attractive to the narcissistic and resentful cretins that plague this board but your narrow-minded interpretation of technology and its potential application is hilariously dim.
Anonymous at Tue, 11 Jun 2024 05:03:09 UTC No. 16227970
>>16208664
>mentions consciousness in post
>post is coincidentally also quite stupid
many such cases.
Anonymous at Tue, 11 Jun 2024 05:06:29 UTC No. 16227973
>>16220736
I think there's no way around it unfortunately. Most attempts to reconcile religion with scientific development tend to just create cognitive dissonance of the faithful and contribute to a growing religious impatience in the non-religious.
Anonymous at Tue, 11 Jun 2024 05:39:08 UTC No. 16227989
>>16207847
Nifty. I'll go all in when we hit brain in a jar tech, but I'm not letting experimental technology interface with my brain meat. Hopefully I can retire in a jar where hot nurses sprinkle fishfood into it ror me. They don't actually have to be hot in reality though. That's what augmented reality is for
Anonymous at Tue, 11 Jun 2024 21:06:23 UTC No. 16229105
>>16227467
For visual inputs, people have succeeded in generating phosphemes using surface contacts with the visual cortex. I am not sure anyone has done that with audio input.
The problem with inputs is a big one, nerves tend to wear out after electrical stimulus. Passive readout is far safer.
Anonymous at Tue, 11 Jun 2024 21:26:51 UTC No. 16229145
>>16229105
>nerves tend to wear out after electrical stimulus
What kind of stimulus? High enough to ionize (0.5-3V), or just precipitate a depolarization?
Anonymous at Wed, 12 Jun 2024 08:33:26 UTC No. 16229980
>>16216184
lmao, so much for proving him wrong
Anonymous at Wed, 12 Jun 2024 08:35:57 UTC No. 16229984
>>16227973
>growing religious impatience in the non-religious.
What do you mean by this exactly?
Anonymous at Wed, 12 Jun 2024 12:57:20 UTC No. 16230253
>>16229984
I imagine he's talking about the following:
>maybe we should research how to regenerate body parts from human stem cells
>ABSOLUTELY NOT, ONLY GOD MAY DABBLE IN THE CREATION OF HUMANITY
>what about modifying genetic material so certain disease are gone?
>ARE YOU DAFT? GOD CREATED US THIS WAY! WHY GO AGAINST HIS DESIGN?
>cloning human cells is pretty neat, it allows is to create organs without having to find a suitable donor
>REEEEEEEEEEEEE
Anonymous at Wed, 12 Jun 2024 22:18:19 UTC No. 16231084
I had a look at their patent portfolio, 12 published so far in 2024 compared to 11 in the entire 2023.
Quite a few are about data transfer, interestingly a few also relate to secure interfaces, using encryption.
Anonymous at Wed, 12 Jun 2024 22:30:30 UTC No. 16231106
>>16207847
The problem with anything like neuralink is the theory behind it. We dont have the mathematical or scientific capabilities to fully process brainwaves yet. At best we can give someone the ability to control a pointer, but that's incredibly limited.
We dont understand brain waveform fully yet, and it may not even be possible to fully understand them.
Anonymous at Wed, 12 Jun 2024 23:04:16 UTC No. 16231168
>>16231106
If you can control a pointer, you can still navigate through space like runescape clicking. Crude, but effective.
>fully understand them
Google has a neural map and a warehouse full of supercomputers working on this right now
Anonymous at Wed, 12 Jun 2024 23:49:01 UTC No. 16231302
>>16231106
Thats your own limits brah. Do you have a 10 years experience in neuroscience? Do you have 10 year experience in computer science?
You don't. Their employees do and they are doing the work their brain sees as possible/doable.
Anonymous at Thu, 13 Jun 2024 08:00:51 UTC No. 16232039
>>16231106
>We dont have the mathematical or scientific capabilities
We don't know that for most medicines either, we just know that they do work. You can get quite far with trial and error.
Anonymous at Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:35:34 UTC No. 16232681
>>16213452
In principle you can achieve full dive VR every night when you get the chance to lucid dream.
>but my dreams don't feel as detailed as VR
You only believe that. You need a lucid dream to ascertain that dreams indeed visually look indistinguishable from real life, at least in the amount of detail. You just don't remember this after waking up from a normal dream (because why would you pay attention to such a side detail if you aren't aware you are dreaming?).
But it's completely futile hoping humans could ever develop the tech to arbitrarily induce and modify dreaming. Even if it were possible, something that needed multi-decade research and engineering would NOT be implemented by some private company.