Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 15:04:16 UTC No. 16224529

>>16223622
Lots of bugs spray nasty chemicals. This one just developed a progressively nastier chemical over time.

Why does this confuse you? It's not even remotely the most confusing animal attribute around.

Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 18:00:52 UTC No. 16224977

>>16224529
ok, thanks. so you are saying the Darwinian answer is that the little guy started off with a nasty chemical and gradually evolved stronger and stronger chemicals and the ability to store and shoot them?

That actually makes sense actually. The criticism is that its impossible to evolve a system that would explode the bug without the necessary accoutrements such as an asbestos bladder. Explosion would of course stop evolution in its tracks.

Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 19:06:08 UTC No. 16225142

>>16223622
how's the trolling going bud? it's been a while since we had creationist trolls, used to be pretty good bait. Honestly refreshing compared to all the vax schizo nonsense we're getting.

Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 19:10:59 UTC No. 16225158

>>16224977
Its not any more difficult to understand that given enough time simple cells that were sensitive to light and thus provided some sort of selective advantage eventually developed into eyes that can spot the smallest of objects miles away. This is because the selective advantage that comes with thatbis so great.

Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 19:14:25 UTC No. 16225167

>>16225158
well, break it down, I need the answer the >>16225142 "creationist trolls" example of the bombardier beetle. so what you are saying is that the mechanisms evolved in tandem, gradually getting a little stronger chemicals with the bladders to hold them mutating and evolving side by side

Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 19:38:43 UTC No. 16225201

>>16223622
>bombardier beetles deny evolution bacause they sprey chemicals
>most varied order of any insect, the most varied class
>entire suborder of Adephaga is known for spraying chemicals
gee I wonder how such an insect could have evolved the ability to shit out hot chemicals, it baffles the mind how such a varied suborder of >40,000 known living species could evolve such a niche and complex process of mixing two chemicals out one hole for defense

Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 20:02:45 UTC No. 16225229

>>16225201
you are still missing the point of how such an explosive concoction mechanism evolved

what other insect produces hot chemicals at the boiling point of water?

Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 20:04:47 UTC No. 16225232

>>16225229
>what other insect produces hot chemicals at the boiling point of water?
termites!

🗑️ Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 20:04:57 UTC No. 16225233

>>16223622
>irreducible complexity
You sandniggas are brain dead.

Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 20:39:29 UTC No. 16225306

>>16225229
>how does explosive concoction mechanism evolve

well for one thing, only a few genes are required so that cells in your body produce chemical 1 and another gene is required for chemical 2

then you keep both chemicals in separate chambers inside a body

a cell valve evolves that can be opened at will
this causes gravity to make the upper chambers liquid flow into lower chamber

then happens something that is straight out of chemistry (physics) instead of biology

two liquids touch each other and they explode

Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 20:56:21 UTC No. 16225347

>>16225306
You are continuing to focus on "how it works". The inquiry here is "how it evolved", small incremental steps of 10s of millions of years.

Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 21:11:04 UTC No. 16225389

>>16225347
>most varied order of any insect, the most varied class
>entire suborder of Adephaga is known for spraying chemicals
40,000 current species of animals that have specialized in spraying chemicals out of the equivalent of their kidneys
the main chemical produced is a modified aromatic ring, common for foul-smelling products in a ton of beetles, and your own pheromones
the secondary secretion is a catalyst that lets it break down the highly energetic oxides and further exothermic reactions. it's an enzyme, (the specific type IDK the structure) but in micro they described similar ones to break down peroxides, in your own cells produce peroxidases to protect your blood from pathogens
produce one in the midgut (to protect from microbes) and the other in the tubules, and they'll mix at the firing end with fiery passion

give 200 million years and you got yourself a bombardier beetle

Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 21:12:11 UTC No. 16225392

>>16225389
ew, windows paste fucked that one up

Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 06:10:13 UTC No. 16226282

>>16225389
>the secondary secretion is a catalyst that lets it break down the highly energetic oxides and further exothermic reactions. it's an enzyme, (the specific type IDK the structure) but in micro they described similar ones to break down peroxides, in your own cells produce peroxidases to protect your blood from pathogens
>give 200 million years and you got yourself a bombardier beetle

hm. considering this, why is this little beetle the creationists' dream that they use to unravel Darwin?

Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 06:35:14 UTC No. 16226311

>>16226282
because it shat into Darwin's mouth when he was digging for beetles

Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 06:54:40 UTC No. 16226323

>>16223622
>>16224977
>he doesn't know about the old termites becoming kamikazes to defend their colony under attack

Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 16:45:38 UTC No. 16227008

a while back someone on /an/ said skunk spray is highly flammable, and if they evolved a way to ignite their spray, they'd basically be a mammalian bombardier beetle
is this true?

Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:29:55 UTC No. 16227181

>>16223622
>irreducible
already a load question

Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:43:00 UTC No. 16227201

>>16227008
>the thiols are flammable, but that's not everything in the spray, considering it's composed of thiol acetates and
STRIKE WHAT I WAS ABOUT TO SAY
HOLY SHIT THIS READS SO WELL
the fucking stories in this are insane, some kids stole skunk extract from the lab as a prank, causing Aldrich to discover the anesthetic properties of skunk musk, same guy (Thomas Bell Aldrich, T B Aldrich brings up a children's author) is cited as one of the first people to extract adrenaline, some of the first hormones isolated.
pic related is an interesting story as well, man made it from Texas to Germany smelling like a skunk
https://files.catbox.moe/tgwpbz.pdf

In actual response now, yea, it's probably flammable if it's sprayed in a fine mist, but the compounds are in both volatile fractions and acetates fractions, that'd stick to you and can break free after more water contact. If you see videos of the spray you can see it's cloudy, that's the same sort of effect of oil and water, gland juice and the final compounds you can smell from miles away in two fractions.

Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:46:07 UTC No. 16227205

>>16223622
>complexity of the bombardier beetle
anon thinks the bombardier beetle is complex
if you only knew anon...

Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 19:35:26 UTC No. 16227270

>>16225389
>give 200 million years and you got yourself a bombardier beetle
Impossible, given one year per generation you have 2x10^8 generations. Due to the extreme rare occurrence of positive mutations that will not even change a single hair on the species.
Btw: Isn't enough to get only one useful word (half a million in english) out of 8 letters and is ca. 2 times the amount of people ever lived. Fu***ng 8 characters, now see the length of DNA.

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=26%5E8.

Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 19:52:08 UTC No. 16227294

>>16227270
funny, it took 5 minutes to evolve a car in boxcar2d by just breeding the two best stock out of each slightly randomized generations
in 200 million years, you'd assume the same would happen with beetles