🧵 Why not Venus?
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 18:16:48 UTC No. 16253111
Looking into it, it seems more easily achievable and plausible than our other neighbours, Lunar and Mars.
I am not specifically referring to terraforming, I just chose the picture because it looked cool.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 18:37:00 UTC No. 16253136
>>16253111
Sheeit, I think we have enough nuclear power, insulation and refrigeration technology that we could colonize Venus if we really tried.
moon is nice though because it is not some long-ass trip where you get a shit-ton of radiation (until we can figure out how to *practically* launch enough shielding).
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 18:56:38 UTC No. 16253176
>>16253111
Even if you could cool the planet down, you'd create a desert planet with no natural sources of water. Days and nights are 16 weeks long. Gravity is Earth-like at least though.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:04:49 UTC No. 16253201
>>16253176
>Days and nights are 16 weeks long
Not if you move with the clouds. Then a Venus day is 4 Terra days long.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:10:23 UTC No. 16253223
>>16253111
>I am not specifically referring to terraforming
How would we survive in 400 degree celcius and sulphuric acid rain if we'd not terraform it?
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:21:26 UTC No. 16253254
>>16253223
>How would we survive in 400 degree celcius
It is about 50 degrees 50km above the ground, where Terra air-filled balloons would float and be able to hold a relatively large station. Under some conditions, you could walk outside with just oxygen needed, because the air pressure is similar to that of Earth's at this altitude.
>sulphuric acid rain
The infrastructure would have to be coated in resistant coating.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:29:50 UTC No. 16253277
>>16253223
>>16253254
I think you'd need to construct any kind of habitat there with a platinum-coated nickel-steel alloy shell to resist the sulfuric acid, from there it's all a matter of insulation and cooling.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:33:50 UTC No. 16253288
>>16253277
Just 5km above 50km, temperatures rest around 27 degrees. You'd only need basic cooling indoors, and outdoors it would be manageable because the heat comes from the surface, not the sunlight (correct?).
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:40:22 UTC No. 16253306
>>16253254
>>16253277
this looks like hell, not living
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:40:48 UTC No. 16253309
>>16253254
what a boring existence, I like our planet, thanks.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:43:59 UTC No. 16253314
>>16253306
>this looks like hell, not living
I agree, but then again, some people live in the torrid desert, others in the arctic where not even a single tree sprouts. They live there because they don't know better and they couldn't afford any differently anyways.
It's hard to believe, but if mankind actually does find ways to go live in inhospitable places, ownership of, and competition for resources will eventually push the destitute there.
Sad, many such places.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:45:00 UTC No. 16253316
>>16253254
>Despite having over 95% atmospheric CO2, the temperature of Venus' atmosphere is the same as that of Earth's atmosphere where the two planets have equal atmospheric pressure.
This pretty much proves that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas and that the high temperatures at Venus' surface are entirely due to atmospheric pressure as described by the ideal gas law
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:45:41 UTC No. 16253318
>>16253306
>>16253309
It is human nature to explore and conquer. You can sit and enjoy the comfortable life, but it is our destiny to expand to the stars and beyond.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:47:05 UTC No. 16253321
>>16253316
Doesn't that prove that it is a greenhouse gas though? Because it's trapping the heat below it? Or does that just make every gas a greenhouse gas?
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:59:48 UTC No. 16253348
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:15:03 UTC No. 16253393
>>16253201
No one's gonna be living in clouds you fuckin goof
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:26:17 UTC No. 16253416
>>16253393
Why not?
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:29:10 UTC No. 16253419
>>16253321
>Or does that just make every gas a greenhouse gas?
Yes, anything other than pure vacuum is gonna a "greenhouse gas" to at least some degree.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:31:43 UTC No. 16253423
>>16253416
Terrible quality of life for no value. Perhaps we could have a scientific research station or something but cloud colonies would be highly undesirable after the novelty wore off, which would happen quickly.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:33:11 UTC No. 16253428
>>16253419
heat created by gravity crushing molecules together creating gas pressure has nothing to do with "the greenhouse effect".
greenhouses function because they have rigid barriers that prevents natual convective cooling.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:34:03 UTC No. 16253431
>>16253111
I am interested in colonizing Mars right this century.
Your absolute beyond-Star Trek sci-fi garbage is so boring it puts me to sleep and want to smack your face to wake up from this fever dream.
We can in principle start a Mars base in the 2030s-2040s.
We can not on Venus.
Maybe it's interesting to idly muse about Venus colonization, but don't posit it as something that can seriously be undertaken and that competes with other space colonization.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:34:25 UTC No. 16253432
>>16253111
Because it smells like sulfur, aka rotten eggs. No one is going to want to live in that shit. And believe me, that shit will absolutely leak into your base.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:36:41 UTC No. 16253439
>>16253201
>terra
Cringe. Keep the Anglo-Saxon Earth.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:37:22 UTC No. 16253442
>>16253288
>basic cooling
>mfw imagining the logistics of shipping HVAC units to Venus, which will be a necessity until that little point in time when HVAC units will be manufactured on Venus itself
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:39:25 UTC No. 16253452
>>16253223
>>16253136
Constructing artificial moon on Venus orbit
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:41:04 UTC No. 16253457
>>16253439
Sol/Terra >>> angloid
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:41:16 UTC No. 16253459
>>16253316
>Earth - 400ppm CO2
>Venus - 955000 CO2
>same temperature at coequal atmospheric pressures
how is this possible if CO2 is a greenhouse gas?
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:47:48 UTC No. 16253479
>>16253431
I think a cloud base in Venus is more viable than any kind of Mars base.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:49:44 UTC No. 16253486
>>16253111
>91% gravity
based
>>16253431
>Colonize Mars distance without using planetary catapult
cringe
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:49:48 UTC No. 16253487
>>16253439
If we are going to expand beyond Terra, then we need to drop the ancient Terra-centric naming conventions, and make them consistent with the other names we have established.
The Sun > Helios
The Earth > Terra
The Moon > Lunar
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:51:12 UTC No. 16253494
>>16253452
For what purpose? We'd have to take water from Terra to Venus. May as well make an artificial moon around Earth at that point.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:55:30 UTC No. 16253503
>>16253254
>where Terra air-filled balloons would float
You understand that the air would diffuse out of the balloons, right?
And that we'd have to keep making shipments of absolutely ludicrous amounts of air to keep this thing from sinking?
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:55:43 UTC No. 16253505
>>16253479
Because you are a fucking dumbass. I am sorry, but how else should I react to an objectively stupid sentence like that?
You can build a Mars base with a Starship. Land the Starship and cannibalize it. Here is your base. Land three Starships. Big base.
Tell me the equivalent mechanism for a Venus base.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:57:15 UTC No. 16253510
>>16253494
Communication logistically, So we can build sunshade much closer from lunar material
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 21:01:23 UTC No. 16253519
>>16253487
>need to drop the ancient Terra-centric naming conventions
Called “early earth” lame
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 21:16:36 UTC No. 16253573
>>16253503
>You understand that the air would diffuse out of the balloons, right?
Why would they?
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 21:19:51 UTC No. 16253581
>>16253573
How are you not going to get holes of any size in balloons when they're being attacked by sulfuric acid rain?
What material are you going to use for the balloons, even, that'll resist that but will also still be light enough to allow them to float and suspend an entire base?
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 21:22:15 UTC No. 16253586
>>16253505
Deploy air-filled balloon a few km below 50km, it floats up to 50km. Use the spacecraft as a temporary base (still attached to the balloon, so no thrust is needed to stay in the air), while you develop the colony around it. Easy. The atmosphere protects against radiation. The temperature is manageable at that altitude to work outside with just minor heat protection and air tubes. The atmospheric pressure is nearly the same as on Terra, so no pressurised suits are needed. Gravity is virtually the same, so long term stay is viable.
Tell me how you'd adapt humans to microgravity on Mars?
How would you protect against radiation?
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 21:24:37 UTC No. 16253594
>>16253581
They don't need to be light, just sparse.
The pressure is almost the same inside the balloon as it is outside, just patch any holes up and refill as neccessary.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 21:36:28 UTC No. 16253631
>>16253586
>to microgravity on Mars?
Where to even begin. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 0.4 is not microgravity. 0G or 0.0003G are.
All the bad effects you talk about apply to research done on the ISS. In 0G.
We have no data points about what (significant gravity < Earth gravity) does to the human body.
Second item on the schedule. Nonlinear dynamics. Do you understand what that means? Growing up in 0.4G doesn't necessarily mean your body (like bones, etc.) is only 40% as strong. It might just mean you are 90% as strong, because most of the beneficial effects happen if *any* significant gravity is applied to the body. The dynamic is -- in this model (which is much more likely to be correct than not) non-linear. This explanation is enough, right?
>How would you protect against radiation?
Build in a valley and store water in the attic.
If you opt to live on the open plane without radiation protection, you have as much added cancer risk as a smoker.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 21:41:31 UTC No. 16253651
>>16253631
So your Mars people will be weak rats who lost most of their muscle and hide away in their little huts 99% of the time growing potted plants, while us Venus chads will be out walking in the Venusian clouds expanding our cloud city with nothing but air tubes.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 21:59:13 UTC No. 16253718
>>16253111
Difficulty of making the first step
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 22:03:49 UTC No. 16253730
>>16253316
yet another scientific proof that it is physically impossible for the global warming narrative to be true, how do the climate hysterics of /sci/ respond to this?
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 22:05:54 UTC No. 16253734
>>16253651
>Forced to live underground in Mars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbF
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 23:29:21 UTC No. 16253856
>>16253318
>It is human nature to explore and conquer.
Absolutely, but you don't have to settle down and populate yet another place like an invasive species out of control. Just go, explore, study, and come back home. Let nature be.
just
let
it
be
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 23:31:06 UTC No. 16253861
>>16253428
>heat created by gravity crushing molecules together creating gas pressure has nothing to do with "the greenhouse effect".
expect that's not what makes temperatures head to 400 celcius on the surface of Venus
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 23:32:11 UTC No. 16253864
>>16253459
>same temperature
Venus is extremely hot, come on
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 23:33:12 UTC No. 16253866
>>16253487
>If we are going to expand beyond Terra
Stop dreaming, have you seen the news lately? we're not going anywhere. kek
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 23:33:14 UTC No. 16253867
>>16253631
>You will live in claustrophobic pod, eat protein radioactive bugs etc
Dystopian future…
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 23:34:15 UTC No. 16253870
>>16253864
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jun 2024 23:35:03 UTC No. 16253872
>>16253651
>So your Mars people will be weak rats
this is already going in a peaceful, auspicious way, I see.
Mankind is shit. There's there proof right there, and this:
>>16253866
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 02:44:38 UTC No. 16254140
>>16253288
outdoors is clouds of sulfuric acid and zero (0) breathable oxygen
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 02:54:03 UTC No. 16254149
>>16253442
Honestly not that difficult with Starships. The real challenge will be building something to process methane and oxygen out of the upper atmosphere and sending it to LVO to refuel the Starships for the trip back to Earth. Mars is much easier in this regard since you have solid ground to build on and mine ice.
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 03:06:47 UTC No. 16254156
>>16253856
>let nature be
It's dead rock.
There is not a single lifeform in it.
The universe is literally full of dead rocks, but it's haram for the one oasis of life in the void to spread its wings a bit?
Piss of, agent of Thanatos. Merchant of entropy.
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 04:43:30 UTC No. 16254237
>>16254140
Then you'd only need an oxygen tube.
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 11:16:36 UTC No. 16254571
>>16254156
>It's dead rock.
>There is not a single lifeform in it.
Who cares! Keep it so, FFS!
Go! Enjoy it! Leave no trace behind, and return to tell the tales.
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 11:21:41 UTC No. 16254574
>>16254571
Humans are designed to conquer unexplored lands.
You are not human, and thus, an enemy of the human race.
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 11:32:05 UTC No. 16254581
>>16253136
No, you fucking idiot. We are not nearly close to have the technology, let alone the resources, to go even to go to Venus and terraform it.
Stop watching Marvel movies.
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 11:33:27 UTC No. 16254582
>>16253136
No, you fucking idiot. We are not nearly close to have the technology, let alone the resources, to go to Venus and terraform it.
Stop watching Marvel movies.
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 11:40:28 UTC No. 16254592
>>16253439
LMAO, you can't even fly the English flag in your own capital. What makes you believe you will be relevant in 100 years?
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 11:52:07 UTC No. 16254603
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 13:43:55 UTC No. 16254750
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 15:51:15 UTC No. 16254911
>>16253111
There's fuck all hydrogen. You need hydrogen to live, make stuff, and refuel rockets for return. The sulfuric acid clouds are as dense as cirrus clouds, read: not very dense. The only way to remotely get enough water for Venus to
have oceans like that is to crash multiple gas giant moons into it.
>>16253503
Just make more O2 from the atmosphere. CO2--> O2 + C. EZ.
>shipment
Have you ever heard of ISRU retard?
>>16253136
>refrigeration
If you are putting people on the surface of Venus for anything other than tourism or crazy stunts you are doing it wrong. The best possible coefficient of performance is less than one to keep humans cool. Meaning, you need more power to move heat than is moved.
>>16254582
This, but unironically. Any and all terraforming requires insane technology
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 16:40:44 UTC No. 16254958
I can't believe I'm going to be the first to state the absolute obvious when it comes to Venus.
Engineer bacteria that eat the undesirable gases in the atmosphere and shit out oxygen and nitrogen. Limit their ability to evolve. Gases used as food source or in part of their metabolism runs out, bacteria die. Venus now has nominally breathable atmosphere.
If the atmospheric conditions change to become more like earth, temperatures will drop. Perhaps we can even seed rain clouds to rain water onto the planet. This is all far easier than Mars shit. It's closer to earth too.
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 16:42:33 UTC No. 16254961
>>16254958
Is that even viable or just sci-fi tier?
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 18:42:56 UTC No. 16255126
>>16254911
there are ways to fuel rockets without hydrogen - it's much less efficient in terms of Isp because of how light hydrogen atoms are, but it's doable. that is actually one of the ideas for a Mars ISRU rocket, since hydrogen is at a premium there, too, barring near surface ices, hydrates, or ammonium minerals (we don't really know how much of these there are on any planet without going there and prospecting; while hydrates are unlikely on Venus, it's even possible Venus has some usable hydroxyl-bearing minerals, as the -OH group often displaces halogens in minerals and is remarkably stable even in extreme environments in Earth's interior despite the volatility of water, tending to become trapped within crystal lattices, especially silicates, when it isn't just flat out stable as a mineral)
the design is specifically an O2 + CO rocket, but Venus has an advantage there for rocketry that Mars doesn't (barring speculation about the amounts of available nitrogenous minerals on or near the Martian surface): AMPLE nitrogen, meaning more than enough to not worry about expending it. because of that, a hydrogen-free rocket for leaving Venus might be able to use N2O or N2O4 as its oxidizer, as well as fuels using -CN groups or even azides if we're feeling spicy, to get better performance than an O2 + CO rocket. in either case, the energy to manufacture these substances with ISRU is plentiful on Venus, meaning there's no real need to deliver nuclear reactors for power as there would be on Mars.
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 19:28:46 UTC No. 16255190
>>16254961
It was real science when I was at university 15+ years ago doing biology.
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 19:30:56 UTC No. 16255195
>>16254574
designed by who?
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 19:33:18 UTC No. 16255201
>>16254958
cloud seeding for water only works if there's sufficient water vapor in the atmosphere. that's not the case with Venus. you will almost certainly need water from elsewhere. however... that's doable.
if it's simply impossible to deliver water from further out in the solar system (it shouldn't be; there's ludicrous amounts of it past the ice line, so much so it's basically waste material out there), there's also the option of collecting the solar wind (lots of protons and electrons; basically free hydrogen, and a greater flux the closer you are to the sun) and reacting it with native Venusian oxygen from breaking up CO2. that process would likely actually give you net energy, but it would take much longer to give you enough hydrogen than deliveries from the outer solar system would, even with the long transit times on human timescales.
once sufficiently cooled, you also want to give Venus an artificial magnetic field. no MHD core-spinning nonsense required - with latitudinal superconducting rings, this is surprisingly easy to do. we're talking merely a few dozen gigawatts, something we already do on Earth fairly easily.
however, it's important to remember that you'll need much more water than just filling the low lying areas; the existing water equilibrium means much of your initial delivered water to a cooled Venus will be consumed by anhydrous minerals re-hydrating until you exceed that equilibrium, so the slower but more long-term sustainable process of solar wind harvesting might have the advantage there. once past the equilibrium of all the water going into minerals (i.e. achieving stable surface water), hydrated minerals do help you: they'll help to stabilize the water equilibrium by releasing their water as you lose it to the solar wind, so they provide a buffer even before you set up your magnetosphere to protect the water (you'll be losing Venus' existing generated magnetosphere as you make the atmosphere less hot and dense).
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 20:09:27 UTC No. 16255273
sounds like it would be better to just live in a space station orbiting venus.
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 21:50:58 UTC No. 16255471
>>16255273
Bit scary cat?
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 21:53:18 UTC No. 16255478
>>16254911
>Most of the planet's hydrogen is theorized to have been lost to space.
>The remainder is mostly bound up in water vapor and sulfuric acid (H2SO4).
We collected it and recycle water
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 22:04:22 UTC No. 16255507
>>16254581
>>16254582
The Russians already sent probes there like half a century ago that survived up to two hours transmitting signals. If all the world's space programs abandoned their other efforts and decided to make the world's shittiest platinum-coated submarine hotel on Venus, we could totally pull it off with enough effort and billions.
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 22:05:04 UTC No. 16255509
>muh narcissistic world building fantasy where I imagine myself as a god with unlimited resources and power
Anonymous at Wed, 26 Jun 2024 22:24:47 UTC No. 16255548
>>16255509
if you see a thread like this and immediately assume everyone here wants to turn an entire fucking planet into their own petty kingdom (rather than just, y'know, make it livable with a massive and unavoidably collaborative effort over the course of many generations so that distant future humans you'll never meet can live there more comfortably)... that's a you problem.
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 01:28:51 UTC No. 16255799
>>16255273
No breathable air.
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 02:08:15 UTC No. 16255847
>>16255799
theres breathable air on venus?
i thought it would melt your lungs
PotatoBuster !!3jyniLNrOkt at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 02:53:24 UTC No. 16255903
>>16253111
the cloud layer seems pretty legit, much thicker atmosphere, more boyant, nice weather.
PotatoBuster !!3jyniLNrOkt at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 02:57:15 UTC No. 16255910
ok so take the excess atmosphere and transport it to mars. 2 birds one stone.
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 04:12:04 UTC No. 16256020
>>16255847
An special moxie-like device help convert Co2
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 05:33:30 UTC No. 16256093
>>16254574
>Humans are designed to conquer unexplored lands.
>to conquer
>You are not human, and thus, an enemy of the human race.
psychopathic piece of shit detected
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 12:46:57 UTC No. 16256549
>>16256093
Is alien dyson sphere real?
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 13:15:34 UTC No. 16256586
>>16254592
India scat program
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 13:32:36 UTC No. 16256602
>>16253111
World of Warcraft
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 13:32:59 UTC No. 16256603
>>16253111
You'd need to at the very least crack open the crust along existing fault lines to prevent catastrophic global resurfacing events. Venusian crust was too hot early on to crack like Earth's did.
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 13:46:54 UTC No. 16256616
Y e s (disagree on Mars colony)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFX
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 13:49:24 UTC No. 16256620
>>16256549
>dyson sphere
>>16253111
>Venus
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 14:15:56 UTC No. 16256647
>>16253111
Venus has historically been ignored because it's extremely inhospitable to both man and machine and it's also difficult to observe at a distance due to its atmosphere. In terms of terraforming Venus has a lot of issues but all of them are fixable whereas Mars will never have enough mass for Earth like gravity (I guess you could crash Mercury into it or something but is it really the same planet at that point?). Regarding terraforming the atmosphere on Venus it could be reduced by blocking sunlight to the planet causing it to freeze and then physically mining it out or ablating it away with a solar lifter. I'm not sure if the latter method could also be used to induce spin on the planet and if not a series of orbital mirrors/shades could be used to replicate Earth's day/night cycle. If you're willing to spend the energy you could also just bombard the planet with impact to induce spin. It would require an absurd number of asteroid impacts though. Then there's the lack of a magnetosphere to consider. I don't know if making the planet spin would be enough to induce one. If not an artificial dipole can be constructed in synchronous orbit between it and the sun. The lack of hydrogen on the planet is the easiest thing to fix, just bombard it with water rich asteroids or maybe even a frozen moon (Jupiter has plenty to spare). Once that's done it's a matter of removing all the poisons leftover from the shitty atmosphere and converting its remaining carbon dioxide atmosphere into oxygen and nitrogen. You could probably engineer some bacteria to strip out the poison and carbon, and some nitrogen asteroids could sure up the nitrogen content of the atmosphere. At that point it's just a matter of building up a biosphere by introducing organisms. If you want to go the extra mile and have tides you could steal a moon from one of the gas giants or maybe use Ceres. Venus has a ton of issues but unlike the mass issue with Mars they are all fixable.
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 14:24:48 UTC No. 16256658
>>16256647
>crash Mercury into it
better suit as new moon, it has complex magnetic field
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 14:35:36 UTC No. 16256668
>>16253111
space ring in orbit around venus
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 14:38:43 UTC No. 16256675
>>16256620
Massive venus colonization leaping closer step into constructing dyson sphere around our Sol.
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 18:11:49 UTC No. 16256934
What if the atmosphere was liquid nitrogen?
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 18:11:56 UTC No. 16256936
>>16256647
>nitrogen
Venus actually has ~4 times the amount of nitrogen in its atmosphere that Earth does - the "3.5% nitrogen" thing is misleading at first glance. there's so much fucking Venusian atmosphere that 3.5% of it is still more gas than Earth's entire atmosphere, several times over.
literally the ONLY thing you need to add is hydrogen. Venus is legitimately a "just cool and add water" planet.
however, you're going to have an enormous excess of oxygen from splitting the CO2, so rather than adding water it may be better to approach this with solar wind harvesting or even gas giant "mining" so you can just collect hydrogen and sequester some of the oxygen in water produced in situ (and thus mineral hydrates as well). you can directly reduce CO2 with hydrogen, to various things including methane (probably not a good idea; very potent greenhouse effect) or just solid carbon. could also possibly export the oxygen to other places. or some of the carbon (there's more of it in the Venusian atmosphere than all known carbon reservoirs on Earth combined)
that said, it's possible Venus' crust is somewhat reducing (i.e. will scavenge free oxygen) because of how much oxygen is locked up in atmospheric CO2, some of which may have resulted from certain oxide minerals in the crust being carbothermally reduced. we know very little about Venus' crust composition, but for an example of this, the presence of magnetite or wustite (Fe3O4 or FeO respectively) would each scavenge free oxygen out of equilibrium to form hematite, or Fe2O3. we actually already know that carbon reacts with magnetite to form wustite and CO, and CO is itself a reducing gas (it's how iron is smelted by solid carbon in the form of coal/charcoal/coke - CO forms and reduces the iron oxides to iron, forming CO2). iron oxides are far from the only potential surface mineral that would do this.
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 18:17:02 UTC No. 16256951
>>16255126
>Mars
Has what are probably buried glaciers
>near surface ice
The Phoenix lander found it pretty easily, so it can't be that rare. We've seen liquid water on Mars too. Even in the worst cases it's more common than on Venus.
>hydroxyl bearing minerals
Mining the surface will be rough getting the water out will be energy intensive. It's like trying to get water out of glass
>non hydrogen utilizing chemical rockets
There are advantages in using the same rocket for transfer between Earth and target planet. You could lift bizarro chemical fuel from Earth to refuel a Venusian rocket, but it's less economical.
>energy is plentiful
At colony altitude, the estimated solar power available is about the same as on Earth's surface because of the clouds. It's not that ample.
>>16255478
>sulfuric acid
Did you even read my post? It's in clouds as disperse as cirrus clouds on Earth. It's difficult to collect because it's so disperse.
>recycle water
Anon, you still need to consume hydrogen to make polymers to make more habitat balloon and what not. Good rocket engines will consume it and there are other uses that will consume it too
>>16255201
>collecting solar wind for hydrogen
Absolutely retarded
>latitudinal superconducting rings
This is why we're calling you out for watching too much capeshit. It's probably not impossible, but this alone is an incredibly large engineering project today. We have yet to do this on Earth to say transfer solar power from one side of the Earth to the other so it works at night. And it's the wrong problem to focus on too when discussing terraforming Venus. An earth like atmosphere itself would already provide ample shielding and atmosphere loss rate is so not a problem. Focusing on this problem while completely ignoring cooling Venus is pretty funny
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 21:01:17 UTC No. 16257238
>>16256951
>buried glaciers
the issue is where and how deep they are
lack of nitrogen is also a very likely problem on Mars nobody talks about
>Phoenix
landed near an ice cap; not representative of general subsurface water prevalence.
>hydroxyl minerals
best case it only cuts down on the amount of hydrogen you need to import
>You could lift bizarro chemical fuel from Earth
what part of "ISRU" do you not understand? or just... rockets in general? even if you were using the same rocket, you wouldn't be 'lifting' any fuel between the two bodies. you wouldn't be using the same lower stages on both planets even if you reuse them. lower stages don't fucking come with you, and that's most of your fuel.
>At colony altitude ... solar power
you could just float your panels higher than the colony if you really needed to (balloons are quite a lot of solar panel real estate even for Earth-level solar flux). or just use the differential windspeeds. or the temperature gradient for heat engines. usable energy is usable energy.
>disperse
the word you wanted is "diffuse." the clouds are thin, yes, but there really IS enough to pull hydrogen out of it at useful rates for a balloon habitat.
>hydrocarbon plastics
you'd want halogenated plastics, likely fluoropolymers, for your exterior balloon materials (sulfuric acid will slowly degrade polyolefins), and solid carbon for bulk structure absolutely everywhere you can possibly help it. you don't need much material for balloons, though, so there will almost certainly be more hydrogen in your water and total biomass than anything else regardless.
>muh capeshit
a meaningless buzzword /pol/ thirdies seethe about. movies will offer some vague quasi-magical bullshit like "nano magnets" or something at MOST and move on. people who say it as some kind of epithet have always sounded even more retarded than the fans... which, i'll concede, is a rather impressive feat.
it does take a special kind of stupid to doublepost with a 60 second timer.
Anonymous at Thu, 27 Jun 2024 23:12:28 UTC No. 16257416
>>16253348
Iced pole unlikely
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 00:18:54 UTC No. 16257478
>>16253348
>>16257416
i'm more concerned about the fact they've buried ALL of Ishtar Terra under ice. and the idea that somehow Venus with this much fucking water would have a massive desert on the eastern part of Aphrodite Terra.
i'm pretty sure that's just a mosaic of Earth land pasted on a low-detail Venusian topology map.
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 01:05:17 UTC No. 16257511
>>16253254
Aside from using it as a scientific research outpost, what possible reason would anyone have to set up a "colony" that's entirely reliant on maintaining buoyancy to avoid plunging into the depths of hell? Almost everything would have to be shipped in from space, you'd have to maintain an airtight environment at all times, your day/night cycle would be entirely artificial, and again - your only escape options are orbit or death.
If you could get some kind of space elevator deal happening with your atmospheric colony tethered to a geosynchronous station, it might make a bit more sense, but even then it seems like a pointless endeavor outside of academic research.
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 02:03:52 UTC No. 16257537
>>16253111
It does have similar gravity, which the most improbable issue to "fix" with any planet. But you would still need an absurd amount of energy and time to "terraform" Venus. The atmosphere not only needs major reductions in certain gases, it needs an immense amount of water. And after that, you'll need to kick-start plate tectonics and account for the proximity to the Sun, otherwise another runaway greenhouse cycle will occur.
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 02:26:14 UTC No. 16257551
>>16257238
>>16256647
>>16256936
>Venus is legitimately a "just cool and add water" planet.
>my problem:
lower gravity => humans might grow up weak.
>your problem:
no water.
>my solution:
Giving every Martian kid a pill once a month that upregulates the body's response to strain, if we don't just put this into the food.
>your solution:
Crashing Ceres into Venus with no survivors.
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 02:56:10 UTC No. 16257567
>>16257537
>you'll need to kick-start plate tectonics
jesus fuck no you don't. if you can draw down the atmospheric CO2 enough to allow livable temps, you can do it at much smaller scales to prevent another runaway. kickstarting tectonics is one of the more harebrained ideas to remove CO2 over geologocally long timescales, not something you have to do post-terraforming. there legitimately might not be enough lifespan left in the sun to make that work.
it's on the level of "just grab a fucking ice moon and crash it into the fucking planet" nonsense (because that's really the only way you're getting enough energy into the Venusian mantle for "kickstarting" tectonics anyway) - the amount of energy required to pilot a fucking moon is absolutely retarded compared to just in situ disassembling the hapless satellite and sending it piecemeal through the Interplanetary Transport Network on circuitous and decades-long routes to Venus. because you have to do it the long way regardless, because you're only going to be able to move the moon in question through the Interplanetary Transport Network unless you have fucking country-sized rockets with effectively infinite reaction mass and energy (now you only need CITY sized rockets). oh, and all that delta V to get to Venus turns to heat immediately on impact. you were trying to get rid of that. whoops.
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 03:08:06 UTC No. 16257580
>>16257551
>Mars anon's solution is literally a fantasy pill that has no actual mechanism for functioning as an equivalent to normal gravity
at least Ceres fucking exists, mate
alright, i've solved it: Martians mine Mars and the asteroid belt (plus maybe a Jovian moon or two) for ice and send it to Venus in exchange for shipments of Venusian CO2 for rebuilding the Martian atmosphere.
as for gravity... just spin the Martian fuckers. yeah, the Terrans and Venusians are going to clown on them and call them "Bowl Babies" or something, but at least the bowl babies will have proper bones.
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 03:21:12 UTC No. 16257601
>>16257580
Also supplies Venus with trillion hydrogen ballon from Jupiter natural resources, using Mars and Luna infrastructure base
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 13:04:59 UTC No. 16258074
average mars fans (USA) vs average venus enjoyer (USSR)
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 13:17:01 UTC No. 16258087
>>16253111
Was that ever the actual sea level? Those features are the current state, yes? Is this extreme volcanism or what? I'd love for Earth to have shorelines that fucked up. Would make for great seat of civilization
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 14:49:00 UTC No. 16258180
>>16255201
>there's also the option of collecting the solar wind (lots of protons and electrons; basically free hydrogen, and a greater flux the closer you are to the sun
How much hydrogen are we talking here? "terraform" is a 10,000 year project minimum
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 15:08:28 UTC No. 16258208
>>16258087
Earth has shores like that in multiple areas.
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 15:20:24 UTC No. 16258221
>>16258087
>I'd love for Earth to have shorelines that fucked up.
>implying Earth doesn't
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 15:34:24 UTC No. 16258248
>>16258208
>>16258221
you guys are actually blind. That map is as if all of landmass was Greece-tier jagged, on average. Meanwhile, we got Africa or South America
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 17:19:08 UTC No. 16258370
>>16258087
It's extreme volcanism but also
>>16258248
Actual oceans and water cycle would smooth those things up quickly, filling in bays, clearing estuaries and floodplains, smoothing mountains etc.
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 18:11:59 UTC No. 16258449
>>16258370
that's a shame
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 18:27:57 UTC No. 16258477
>>16257567
>one of the more harebrained ideas
every single one of these terraforming ideas is harebrained to put it lightly, if you aren't willing to entertain at least that level of nonsense then just live in floating colonies.
Anonymous at Fri, 28 Jun 2024 21:32:45 UTC No. 16258749
>>16258477
the problem with the moon thing is scale - you could disassemble an ice moon or pull hydrogen from a gas giant and send it to Venus in sufficient volumes, and with sufficient cooling efforts, to terraform it. that's all surprisingly feasible from an energy standpoint, and from a timescale standpoint we're talking a few tens of thousands of years (i.e. roughly on the order of the timeline of human history; staggeringly fast for geologic timescales).
the moon thing is orders of magnitude more intensive. people do not understand how much energy is required to change the orbit of a massive body, even one as "small" as a moon. it's not like moving an asteroid - those moons are where they are because they're in relatively stable, local minimum conditions for their orbital energy. to move them OUT of those positions, one has to re-input ALL the energy that they've lost to stabilizing their orbits on timescales of tens of years instead of the hundreds of millions of years over which their orbits stabilized. the power required increases by several orders of magnitude over everything that humans currently produce, which is in turn a couple of orders of magnitude over everything that humans will feasibly produce with more power generation in that timeframe, and much, much greater than that required to just mine for hydrogen and ice and deliver it slowly. you can't put objects above a certain mass through the Interplanetary Transport Network, so you can save immense amounts of energy by using it with thousands of smaller scale deliveries.
the piecemeal approach isn't instant gratification like the moon approach is. that's really the only reason people suggest the moon approach - they want it done quickly rather than efficiently. that lack of efficiency happens to also take it well out of the realm of feasibility.
Anonymous at Sat, 29 Jun 2024 01:40:45 UTC No. 16259137
>>16258180
everything that anon said EXCEPT the solar wind thing is somewhat reasonable; in and near the ecliptic, it's just not enough mass unless you've got a million years and a few million planet-sized (in collection cross-section, not mass, at least) collectors to spare. this is based on a super rough calculation/estimate i just did that suggested a single solar wind collector (at least in the ecliptic, i think it's denser at the poles but don't quote me) at Venus' orbital distance and with a cross-sectional area equal to Venus would fill a Venusian ocean... in a couple trillion years. you'd need about a million of those to cut it down to "only" a couple million years. yes, solar wind density increases roughly with the square of a reduction in orbital distance, but you still need fucking loads of collection area, and the closer you are the harder it gets to keep from vaporizing... also by the square of the reduction in orbital distance.
just pull it out of the gas giants. much easier. the gas giants will literally not even notice, they've got more than enough to spare.
to get hydrogen in reasonable timescales from Sol, you'd basically need starlifting. personally, i think we'll be doing that eventually (if nothing else, just to sidestep the red giant phase - starlifting increases star lifespan), but that'd be so far in the future we'd have almost certainly already terraformed both Venus AND Mars, and have loads of space habitats all over the place, and have probably sent off ships for colonizing other star systems.
Mercury's fucked though. we're 100% going to rip that poor planet to shreds. maybe even make artificial moons for Venus and Mars with the leftovers while we're at it, just because we can.
Anonymous at Sat, 29 Jun 2024 01:50:52 UTC No. 16259143
>>16253111
definetely, invest in baloon technology, low cost maintenance to keep afloat, can be low investment, doesn't require ground settlement right away, covers a lot of ground and can focus on entry level data collection in the atmosphere until they have a better picture of where to go from there. Can fly against or with the rotation of the planet to stay in pepetual day/night or whatever they want, also planet is closer on average so easier to manage going back with crews than mars would be
Anonymous at Sat, 29 Jun 2024 01:54:18 UTC No. 16259146
>>16259143
trying to set up a pre-terraformed ground base would be a challenge, but with information gathered from atmosphere missions we might find a solution, or we'd set up a ground to atmosphere sky elevator possibly
Anonymous at Sat, 29 Jun 2024 11:07:23 UTC No. 16259569
>>16259137
>Mercury's fooked though. we're 100% going to rip that poor planet to shreds
Mercury atmospheric composition:
Oxygen 42%
Sodium 29%
Hydrogen 22%
Helium 6%
Potassium 0.5%
With trace amounts of the following: Argon, Carbon dioxide, Water, Nitrogen, Xenon, Krypton, Neon, Calcium, Magnesium
All those mining challenge
Anonymous at Sat, 29 Jun 2024 18:36:17 UTC No. 16260123
>>16259900
Soul…
Anonymous at Sat, 29 Jun 2024 19:33:05 UTC No. 16260176
>>16259569
>censors "fucked"
>doesn't understand just how little atmosphere Mercury has
the atmosphere of Mercury is a nonissue unless you wanted to live there for some insane reason... and you'd be doing so in a subsurface habitat anyway.
Anonymous at Sat, 29 Jun 2024 20:04:23 UTC No. 16260201
>>16260176
Living there resort? Hell nah, Only robotic job.
Anonymous at Sun, 30 Jun 2024 01:15:46 UTC No. 16260488
Really I like Malara (Venus)’s daughter, Mii
Anonymous at Sun, 30 Jun 2024 13:28:46 UTC No. 16261068
Perfect world for fire emblem
Anonymous at Mon, 1 Jul 2024 05:28:06 UTC No. 16262472
VENEREAL DISEASES!
Anonymous at Mon, 1 Jul 2024 14:39:56 UTC No. 16262861
>>16259900
Hunter fly and soaring bronze colors sky
Anonymous at Mon, 1 Jul 2024 17:28:52 UTC No. 16263020
>>16257238
>where
We got a pretty good idea where
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaci
>deep
We can already dig pretty deep for oil on Earth. Digging's high TRL tech.
>nitrogen
Can largely be recycled
>ISRU
Venus has to use bizarro chemical fuel, so bizarro chemical rockets only applicable to Venus need to be developed. Regular chemical rockets that are practical on Earth can pay for themselves
>higher panels
So how do you get the power down many kilometers
>differential wind speed
Isn't really that much for a couple kilometers difference. There's also another issue with wind in that basically all wind is trying to push the colony poleward, and you really want to stay away from the poles to have some semblance of a regular day night cycle by going with the wind. Kite based wind power hasn't been very practical on Earth too.
>temperature difference
How do you move heat up many kilometers?
>at useful rates
Show your math
>halogenated
Fluorine's even less concentrated
>>16258749
See "Terraforming Venus Quickly"
https://www.orionsarm.com/fm_store/
Ejecting Enceladus from Saturn on a collision course from Venus only requires 630 m/s of delta V. This is relatively small due to the possibility of performing gravity assists with Saturn's other moons. This could be done by launching pellets to power a huge steam rocket on Enceladus from a light sail driven 'wind mill' near the sun. This could provide the required energy to eject Enceladus in one year. This is an utterly huge and ridiculous engineering effort, but not impossible.
Anonymous at Mon, 1 Jul 2024 19:27:45 UTC No. 16263135
>>16253457
>Sol
Hate to rain on your parade buddy
Anonymous at Mon, 1 Jul 2024 20:25:12 UTC No. 16263236
>>16263135
Son of Mars disagree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_I
Anonymous at Mon, 1 Jul 2024 22:01:00 UTC No. 16263399
>>16263020
>Glaciers
where relative to prospective landing sites. none of those features are below 30 degrees latitude, and all of them are considered mostly dust/water conglomerates. it's legitimately not enough water for terraforming.
>oil
flows in the deposit - all you need is an access borehole. you need to MINE Martian water ice.
>recycled
so can hydrogen
>bizarro chemical fuel
not really. O2 is standard, and we have designs for all kinds of fuels already, including CO. N2O is fairly common as a monopropellant or oxidizer HERE. it's not the staggering amount of work you think it is. rocketry has tried some absolutely batshit stuff, even WITH ample hydrogen (LiF rocket, anyone?)
>how move electricity
wires, but it's not necessary; Earth-level solar is plenty of energy.
>poleward wind
just tack your maneuvering sails if you aren't using propellers. was a solved problem millennia ago.
>how move heat
pump a fluid. hell, use the Venusian atmosphere itself as your working fluid. but again, solar is already enough.
>Show your math
enough hydrogen to refuel Starship could be collected from those clouds by a collection area of about ~500 square meters (about two decently sized homes' floorspace) in a couple of months. this was in another thread recently.
>less concentrated
you don't need nearly as much as you think. it's only for exterior lining. bulk structure will be pure carbon wherever you can help it - that includes light, semi-elastic fillers such as aerographene.
>terraforming Venus quickly
people quote the "pebble vs. Mars" thing because it's catchy and hilarious, but it's not realistic, and may literally be untrue due to other constraints (timescales, adequate mass ladders, complex orbital interactions between similar-mass bodies). Birch also mentions gas giant hydrogen, but his energy budget for it is inexplicably still orbital momentum exchange, limiting the mass throughput by orders of magnitude. he also vastly overestimates the ice proportion of the moons.
Anonymous at Tue, 2 Jul 2024 17:02:07 UTC No. 16264517
>>16253111
Venus Wars (one of fav retro movie)
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 02:14:13 UTC No. 16265289
>>16263399
holy shit "vastly overestimating the ice proportion" was an understatement - i just did the math and he treated Enceladus like it was literally 100% composed of water ice
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 02:26:27 UTC No. 16265302
>>16253487
Where do you think any of those words come from?
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 03:55:14 UTC No. 16265381
Make a huge hurricane with magnets on the poles. This reduces surface pressure and temperature so women can live there in tents.
Then send the men in tunnel for mining resources.
>mah hekin lava
Don't care. send another venutian. Terra expects shipments by quarters end
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 17:11:41 UTC No. 16266217
>>16265381
>digging
counterintuitive as it seems, the most valuable thing on Venus is literally its atmosphere. there's more carbon floating over Venus than all known reservoirs on Earth, including carbonate rocks.
Venus is in the rather unique position where building a bunch of space habitats would actually assist in terraforming the planet - carbon's surprisingly hard to come by in the inner solar system apart from Venus (people tend to vastly overestimate the mass of Martian carbon; all the Martian CO2 in its atmosphere is only about 3 times the amount in Earth's atmosphere, Mars' atmosphere is pitiful), and space habitats like O'Neill cylinders will need a lot of it for their biospheres.
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 17:17:03 UTC No. 16266233
>>16263399
>not enough water for terraforming
Terraforming is a meme.
>mine the martian ice
No, a rodriguez well works
>so can hydrogen
Not for propellant
>wires
...
Anon, it is fucking ridiculous to move significant amounts of power via wire ~10 km down. The different and variable wind speed probably makes wires impractical
>pump
Again, this is ridiculous. Pipes weigh a lot more than wires
>tack
I'm not sure that's even possible. Colonies should be pretty big and drag may be too high. Can the colony even handle those forces?
>solved millenia ago
Sailing in water and sailing using air masses with differing velocities is VERY fucking different. The most similar tech to this, kite based wind power has been a huge boondoggle here on earth
>enough hydrogen to refuel starship
That was me and I assumed 100% collection efficiency. That isn't possible. And I said YOUR MATH
>>16265289
Venus needs a lot of fucking hydrogen
Anonymous at Thu, 4 Jul 2024 00:36:39 UTC No. 16266938
>>16266233
>Terraforming is a meme.
on human timescales, sure. with local resources alone, definitely.
>Rodriguez well
most (yes, even including the likely majority ice ones) Martian 'glaciers' are more like rock glaciers on Earth (loose debris with ice inclusions deposited by glacier loss). Martian atmospheric pressure would cause much faster refreezing from faster mass loss - to the point it's potentially energetically favorable to just mine. Any liquid well will also likely concentrate any salts the fluid contacts, requiring higher energy for distillation.
realistically you go to an exposed ice scarp and cut holes in the cap, collecting what sublimates. but there are only 6 such locations known.
>propellant
likely not what it'd be used for on Venus; hydrogenated propellants are best, yes, but not the only ones. N2O being both a usable monopropellant (not talking about the dumb fuel blend) and oxidizer helps significantly.
>ridiculous to move significant amounts of power via wire ~10 km
hmm
>variable wind speed
Venusian wind is incredibly stable - almost completely zonal flow. we also already have balloons with 7.5km+ ground tethers. look up TARS aerostats. Venusian wind stability pretty much eliminates what makes kite wind power suck so much on Earth.
>pipe
likely a hanging, open-bottomed updraft-tower-like structure with low-density walls; could even be buoyant, since all you need is a barrier to constrain flow. wouldn't need to be super long (better temperature gradient than Earth).
>drag
a colony is likely moving with the wind; would circle the equator in about 7 days.
this can also provide power, with the colony acting as the "sail" for dragging wind harvesting structures through the slower-moving atmosphere below the cloud deck.
>efficiency
100% efficiency isn't necessary when the collection area can be that small. the balloons will already be substantially bigger. my math wouldn't be any different unless you were just wrong. nobody owns these numbers.
Anonymous at Thu, 4 Jul 2024 22:24:05 UTC No. 16268172
Why did Star Trek never explore Venus?
Anonymous at Fri, 5 Jul 2024 00:06:51 UTC No. 16268266
How refuel water-base cars
Hydrogen peroxide can be used as a fuel for cars in three ways:
>Electrolyzing hydrogen peroxide to produce hydrogen and oxygen, which can then be run through either an internal combustion engine or a fuel cell to power the vehicle.
>Using hydrogen peroxide to fuel a turbine engine that will be used to power the vehicle.
>Rapidly decomposing hydrogen peroxide to produce steam and oxygen, creating enormous thrust and propulsion, as demonstrated by the jet car and rockets.
>Hydrogen peroxide is a green way to power a vehicle, as the only emissions from using hydrogen peroxide as fuel is heat, oxygen and water (steam).
Anonymous at Fri, 5 Jul 2024 02:51:01 UTC No. 16268373
>>16253111
Mars is a much easier fantasy. Just "add". Just add people, an atmosphere, magical buildings that solve all the problems etc. Venus is scary and complicated. It has far greater potential than Mars but you can't just send a rover and then LARP to investors about how you're gonna send heckin people next. They're both far beyond our reach at present though, realistically.