🧵 abbreeding and inbreeding
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 20:44:28 UTC No. 16266573
What are the pros and cons of low genetic diversity and high genetic diversity?
From what I've been seeing [1] the popular assumption that inbreeding always results in abominations is inaccurate.
The popular assumption of abbreeding is that at a certain point it will be impossible to breed but does that actually affect our societies.
It could also be considered taboo to reach either extreme not because there is any real risk but that it is gluttonous.
Based on how the wind kisses my balls when I stand naked on the beach I conjecture inbreeding is advantageous for women and abbreeding is advantageous for men.
With this invariable truth established widespread literacy expanding the potential range for breeding [2] gives men an unprecedented advantage and hoes madd.
[1] besides your mom in a recreationally sexual context
[2] this correlation between literacy and expanded breeding range has been established from data found on a Burger King wrapper in a trashcan near Drexel University.
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 20:47:25 UTC No. 16266581
Oooh what's the source for this graph, looks interesting, reminds me of price's work on pollen tube setting
What do you mean by abbreeding? all a search engine gives me is some berry breeding game
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 20:52:24 UTC No. 16266596
>>16266581
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126
high breeding distance, inverse of inbreeding, used to imply there is a similar taboo quality.
The closest synonym would be race mixing but that's not exactly what I'm interested in saying.
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 20:55:21 UTC No. 16266602
>>16266596
do you mean outbreeding or is the concept different?
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 21:05:14 UTC No. 16266618
If it's of any use to you I found this old guy Linton Herbert's research into fly population expansions and collapse, he found an effect from some sort of epigenetic modifier.
I don't remember all of the details of his work but he found these double dip effects preceding the complete collapse of a population
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 21:06:23 UTC No. 16266619
>>16266602
What I am talking about is breeding where an outbreeding depression occurs. categorizing a subset of outbreeding.
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 21:10:07 UTC No. 16266628
>>16266619
I've only skimmed part of it so far but what sort of distance are they seeing declines in fitness?
I remember the iceland births and marriages data saw a peak in fertility around 3rd-4th cousin. price's pollen tube setting had a similar sharp rise and slower fall although I never found an estimate of effective relatedness since he used distance in metres between each plant
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 21:20:49 UTC No. 16266644
>>16266628
oh, that's very informative.
I might want to look into that Iceland study because that would dramatically change how we interpret how genetically diverse the world is and how that might be correlated with reduced fertility. Abcest (maybe a better word) is then much closer than I would have ever thought.
There's absolutely no way of knowing how "abcestuous" I would be even if I married a woman from my hometown.
I'm actually having an existential crisis now. You can't even be sure looking at their skin or face structure, damn.
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 21:31:28 UTC No. 16266664
>>16266644
from memory the iceland paper was helgason et al 2008 something about kinship and fertility in a human population in iceland, they took 200 years of birth and marriage records and tabulated up the relatedeness of each couple and deduced what they could about fitness from that, the decline in effective fertility with distance was quite marked. With I think about 1%-0,1% being the peak range
Of course being a human study one could attach so social effect to part of the results, but from what I remember they released a coupple of follow commentary papers dealing with a few of the details and responses.
I've not properly looked into this topic for a while.
and of course both incest and race mixing are pushed by the media in various forms.
I did find some data on cancer rates and relatedness but I don't recall it being that high quality wise.
We evolved to live and reproduce in quite small village sized communities, outside of that context I have to wonder what happens.
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 21:36:15 UTC No. 16266672
Right I'm going to head off and read the op paper before bed, hopefully it stays up by tomorrow and I might dig out my old notes to refresh my memory.
If you can find any of this guy's books and papers on the social side of incest and inbreeding it's well worthh your time
https://evolution.rutgers.edu/news/
I see that he has passed on so I feel a little regretful tonight that I never sent him an email...
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jul 2024 21:40:30 UTC No. 16266682
>>16266672
hos old site was a treasure trove of social research on the topic
https://web.archive.org/web/2018043
Anonymous at Thu, 4 Jul 2024 08:02:19 UTC No. 16267375
I'm trying to figure out how the mating distance of the OP paper which uses a figure of heterozygosity per 1000 translates to relatedness figures which are autozygosity, the 4.5/1000 peak they found for heterozygosity and the icelandic peak of around 0.8% relatedness sound like they're approximately the same order of magnitude which has interesting implications although relatedness is a less precise figure without an idea of allele frequencies in the population
my maths skills are a little lacking.
Anonymous at Fri, 5 Jul 2024 07:37:41 UTC No. 16268650
>>16266573
>What are the pros and cons of low genetic diversity and high genetic diversity?
low genetic diversity means consistency and compatifbility likely very adapted to that environment
high genetic diversity would possibly allow rapid adaptation to new conditions but the tradeoffs would be instability
Anonymous at Sat, 6 Jul 2024 09:41:40 UTC No. 16270116
Does /sci/ not do genetics?
Anonymous at Sat, 6 Jul 2024 20:07:33 UTC No. 16270675
So is it okay to fuck my cousin?
Anonymous at Mon, 8 Jul 2024 08:12:07 UTC No. 16272582
Is there a term like autozygous but instead of homozygous it's for heterozygous with both alleles different but from the same common ancestor?
Anonymous at Mon, 8 Jul 2024 08:29:06 UTC No. 16272596
>>16270675
>Associations of autozygosity with a broad range of human phenotypes
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41
>In many species, the offspring of related parents suffer reduced reproductive success, a phenomenon known as inbreeding depression. In humans, the importance of this effect has remained unclear, partly because reproduction between close relatives is both rare and frequently associated with confounding social factors. Here, using genomic inbreeding coefficients (FROH) for >1.4 million individuals, we show that FROH is significantly associated (p<0.0005) with apparently deleterious changes in 32 out of 100 traits analysed. These changes are associated with runs of homozygosity (ROH), but not with common variant homozygosity, suggesting that genetic variants associated with inbreeding depression are predominantly rare. The effect on fertility is striking: FROH equ
Anonymous at Tue, 9 Jul 2024 18:41:47 UTC No. 16274622
>>16266573
>genetic diversity
Stopped reading there
Anonymous at Tue, 9 Jul 2024 18:44:51 UTC No. 16274631
>>16274622
How different are you to your cousins?
what's a good method to measure the difference?
Anonymous at Tue, 9 Jul 2024 18:46:12 UTC No. 16274635
>>16266573
Wouldn't abbreeding be like asexual meaning they don't breed or aren't interested?
Anonymous at Tue, 9 Jul 2024 20:28:09 UTC No. 16274948
>>16266581
they developed this line of research into seed setting
https://academic.oup.com/evolut/art
Anonymous at Tue, 9 Jul 2024 20:46:57 UTC No. 16274979
>>16274948
https://www.jstor.org/stable/354484
Crossing Distance Effects on Prezygotic Performance in Plants: An Argument for Female Choice
Nickolas M. Waser and Mary V. Price 1993
Anonymous at Thu, 11 Jul 2024 01:42:58 UTC No. 16276797
>>16266573
what does it mean that outbreding incompatibility effects snowball?
they reference this paper but i don;t get it
Hybrid Incompatibility “Snowballs” Between Solanum Species
https://www.science.org/doi/full/10
Anonymous at Thu, 11 Jul 2024 03:13:09 UTC No. 16276854
>>16266573
outbreeding: you run into compatibility issues
inbreeding: things start to get overwritten
Anonymous at Thu, 11 Jul 2024 12:49:04 UTC No. 16277250
>>16276854
>inbreeding: things start to get overwritten
this can sometimes be a good thing, drift allows much faster purging rates
Anonymous at Thu, 11 Jul 2024 13:15:37 UTC No. 16277274
Due to the founder effect, having a base genetic stock of a few high quality members is superior to having a base stock of more low/mediocre quality members.
Anonymous at Thu, 11 Jul 2024 13:39:42 UTC No. 16277293
>>16277274
Do you mean it's better to start with a smaller number of higher quality than a larger number of lower quality?
Anonymous at Thu, 11 Jul 2024 13:44:44 UTC No. 16277299
>>16277274
High quality is highly dependent. A mutation that increased your IQ but decreased the amount you sweat for some reason would be great in Greenland. Terrible in Botswana though.
Anonymous at Thu, 11 Jul 2024 14:48:43 UTC No. 16277348
>>16277299
wouldn't a more realistic idea be one of the immune genes like the mhc?