🧵 Untitled Thread
Anonymous at Fri, 12 Jul 2024 22:22:02 UTC No. 16279465
In the '80s, a professor developed a strain of Streptococcus mutans that doesn't produce lactic acid, the production of which is what causes bacteria-driven tooth decay.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cari
> Jeffrey Hillman from the University of Florida developed a genetically modified strain of Streptococcus mutans called BCS3-L1, that is incapable of producing lactic acid – the acid that dissolves tooth enamel – and aggressively replaces native flora. In laboratory tests, rats who were given BCS3-L1 were conferred with a lifetime of protection against S. mutans. BCS3-L1 colonizes the mouth and produces a small amount of a lantibiotic, called MU1140, which allows it to out-compete S. mutans.
He tried to market it but the FDA made it difficult enough that he eventually gave up. Recently, a startup
>https://www.luminaprobiotic.com/
has licensed the bacteria from the company HIllman founded and plans to market it as an oral probiotic to get past FDA hurdles. For $250, you can preorder their product which in theory is a one-time application that will permanently rearrange your oral microbiome and replace all of your normal S. mutans with the harmless genetically modified strain.
This probably sounds like shilling so far because I remember reading about Hillman years and years ago and wishing there were some way to get his bacteria because it theoretically sounded great. Now that you can, I'm beginning to wonder if it's insane to buy a product that will permanently replace my oral bacteria with a genetically modified one. I'm torn between wanting to let early adopters be the guinea pigs for a few years and snatching it up before some toothpaste company lobbies the FDA to ban it.
Taking naturally occurring probiotics is one thing but would you seed yourself with heavily genetically modified probiotics?
Anonymous at Fri, 12 Jul 2024 22:47:52 UTC No. 16279492
>>16279465
So I just kill my oral microbiome on the regular by mixing 0.25% sodium hypochlorite with 3% hydrogen peroxide as a mouthwash. No cavities.
Anonymous at Fri, 12 Jul 2024 23:03:19 UTC No. 16279509
>>16279492
You can go that route but you need to keep doing it or everything will come back, and some of your oral microbes are useful. For example, some of your oral microbes affect nitric oxide synthesis (by reducing nitrate to nitrite) which improves cardiometabolic functions.
Anonymous at Fri, 12 Jul 2024 23:30:38 UTC No. 16279547
>>16279509
Do you need any besides lactobacilli? I eat a few billion of those erry day as probiotics.
Anonymous at Fri, 12 Jul 2024 23:36:26 UTC No. 16279550
>>16279547
There are hundreds of strains of bacteria living in your mouth, iirc the average number is like 600 different kinds. Some of them are bad, some of them are good, most of them are neutral. You certainly need more than one specific strain regardless of what it is but unless you're going out of your way to sterilize your mouth on a regular basis then it will naturally be colonized by all of these strains over time.
Anonymous at Fri, 12 Jul 2024 23:52:55 UTC No. 16279570
isn't lactic acid the limiting growth factor for bacteria?
they grow out of control till they stew in their own shit and kill themselves. When you remove the lactic acid, won't they reproduce with no limit? Isn't that.... dangerous?
Anonymous at Sat, 13 Jul 2024 00:48:43 UTC No. 16279640
>>16279465
>messing with the microbioma
I wonder what could go wrong?
Anonymous at Sat, 13 Jul 2024 02:24:49 UTC No. 16279727
>>16279465
Try it and report back. We're counting on you.
Anonymous at Sat, 13 Jul 2024 03:49:32 UTC No. 16279822
>>16279550
say hypothetically I'm >>16279492 so I do
>going out of your way to sterilize your mouth on a regular basis
are lactobacilli in the gut good enough for nitrate reduction, or are there some other "special" bacteria out of that "600 different kinds" that is actually worth having?
Anonymous at Sat, 13 Jul 2024 04:00:57 UTC No. 16279831
>>16279465
Cool. Not pre-ordering but I'll probably try it when it's actually available. I hate when people get all neurotic about shit like this. Yeah we know there's risks and it might not work as intended for everyone, but it's still exciting
Anonymous at Sat, 13 Jul 2024 12:35:26 UTC No. 16280200
>>16279822
>are lactobacilli in the gut good enough for nitrate reduction
People with gum disease have shown impaired nitrate reduction that improved after their gum disease was treated so your oral microbes definitely have an effect.
>or are there some other "special" bacteria out of that "600 different kinds" that is actually worth having?
Well, like the rest of your microflora, the stuff in your mouth isn't strictly necessary for health but it is something that we've adapted to over all those years of evolution. The discovery of the extreme diversity of the oral microbiome is relatively recent and I'm sure there are tons of things living in our mouths that we simply haven't studied But we do know that there are ones like the nitric oxide synthesis ones that affect the rest of your body in various ways, there are ones that help pre-digest your food, and there are ones that don't do much except prevent colonization by more harmful strains.
Regularly killing everything in your mouth may also affect you gut microbiome as strains from the mouth have been known to travel and colonize other parts of the digestive system, but overall I can't imagine it makes much of a difference.
Anonymous at Sat, 13 Jul 2024 12:44:54 UTC No. 16280205
>>16279570
would l acid ever get to that point in the body? not likely
Anonymous at Sat, 13 Jul 2024 13:03:39 UTC No. 16280214
>>16279492
I used to rinse my mouth with sodium hypoclorite thinking the effect would be similar to hydrogen peroxide since both are alcaline oxydizers and thus act as bleaching agents. But I developed some sort of brown gunk in my teeth which apparently sometimes happens to swimmers. Once I stopped doing it it went away.
Maybe I'll try rinsing with hydrogen peroxide.
Anonymous at Sat, 13 Jul 2024 13:04:03 UTC No. 16280215
>>16279570
>isn't lactic acid the limiting growth factor for bacteria?
Not really, no. Strains of S. mutans that don't produce lactic acid are found naturally. The modified ones discussed on OP
>don't produce lactic acid
>produce an antibiotic so they can outcompete other bacteria
>are immune to said antibiotic
>have a gene removed that will supposedly make horizontal transfer much less likely
Anonymous at Sat, 13 Jul 2024 13:05:20 UTC No. 16280217
>>16279570
In vitro maybe and pressumably also inside the mouth, but inside the body the main limitation would be the immune system.
Anonymous at Mon, 15 Jul 2024 02:26:52 UTC No. 16281882
>>16279465
bump for interest
Anonymous at Mon, 15 Jul 2024 10:53:07 UTC No. 16282236
>>16279465
>permanently rearrange your oral microbiome
>permanently
I feel this to be significantly less likely than e.g. FTL travel.
Anonymous at Mon, 15 Jul 2024 11:19:20 UTC No. 16282256
>>16282236
FTL phenomena are known to exist, and permanent microbe establishment is a simple matter of rates
Anonymous at Mon, 15 Jul 2024 11:48:15 UTC No. 16282280
>>16279465
Israeli business advertisement. Buy an ad.
Anonymous at Mon, 15 Jul 2024 12:19:53 UTC No. 16282303
>>16282256
>FTL phenomena are known to exist
[citation needed]
>(similarly /x/ tier claim)
Anonymous at Mon, 15 Jul 2024 13:07:14 UTC No. 16282344
>>16282303
you really think your precious mouthwash kills anywhere near 100% of microbes?