🗑️ 🧵 Untitled Thread
Anonymous at Sat, 20 Jul 2024 14:00:36 UTC No. 16289566
Think about this: if we talk about consciousness then consciousness have changed something about how we act. It's not merely a passive observer. That fact alone invalidates the way many think of consciousness. So what is the logical way to think of it? If consciousness isn't simply experience then what is it? What else does consciousness change?
Regardless if your belief is scientism, physicalism, spiritualism etc. as long as you can make a coherent argument, I'm interested in hearing it.
NoKrAb at Sat, 20 Jul 2024 14:20:14 UTC No. 16289589
>implying there is only one consciousness type
Anonymous at Sat, 20 Jul 2024 14:23:19 UTC No. 16289593
Brains think that their conscious, i.e. the structure of atoms thinks its conscious and acts like it is in its thinking. That does not mean it actually is conscious.
Anonymous at Sat, 20 Jul 2024 14:24:49 UTC No. 16289594
>>16289593
While you may be an NPC, many aren't.
Anonymous at Sat, 20 Jul 2024 22:42:31 UTC No. 16290192
>>16289566
>if we talk about consciousness then consciousness have changed something about how we act. It's not merely a passive observer.
Metacognition.
>>16289593
>Brains think that their conscious
>That does not mean it actually is conscious.
Wrong. Cogito ergo sum. Thinking you are conscious is proof of consciousness.
>>16289589
Consciousness is a complex thing and we're not equipped with the language to speak of it. Most minds are hardwired so if they can't speak of it they can't think of it either, at least not on a conscious level. The word itself, consciousness, is a catch all phrase for a great number of different toughs and ideas. That is to say consciousness is a word in the English language that has more than one meaning. It's a complex and multifaceted concept.
Anonymous at Sat, 20 Jul 2024 22:51:18 UTC No. 16290207
>>16289566
Consciousness is awareness.
1) awareness of the thing in front of you
2) awareness of the thing in front of you, watching from a window in a house
3) awareness of the thing in front of you, watching from a window in a house, watching from above
Its not 3 different homunculus. Its not 1 homonculus. Its merely a simple recursive function.
Anonymous at Sat, 20 Jul 2024 23:13:23 UTC No. 16290234
>>16290192
How long until humanity discovers what makes consciousness or rather until it defines what consciousness is and is generally agreed on by a majority if not all conscious humans?
Anonymous at Sun, 21 Jul 2024 21:03:59 UTC No. 16291424
>>16290192
>>16290207
Awareness and consciousness are 2 different things though. A computer can be aware, but it wouldn't question why it experiences things when it doesn't, you see.
So the strange thing is that consciousness itself changes something even though it "should only be an observer".
Anonymous at Sun, 21 Jul 2024 21:08:03 UTC No. 16291432
>scientism
religion vs science thread.
Anonymous at Mon, 22 Jul 2024 00:27:37 UTC No. 16291655
>>16290234
never
Anonymous at Mon, 22 Jul 2024 02:08:58 UTC No. 16291726
>>16289566
Either that or psychophysical parallelism is true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psych
Anonymous at Mon, 22 Jul 2024 10:00:15 UTC No. 16291946
>>16289593
Shut up dennet
Anonymous at Mon, 22 Jul 2024 10:04:21 UTC No. 16291953
>>16289566
A while ago some shizoposter here kept claiming physicalists are P zombies,
Now this appeared dumb to me because even in Chalmers original argument P zombies shouldn’t be possible in our universe.
However, recently I’ve seen a lot of discussion on the topic and it seems there is a rather large group of people that does not understand the Hard Question, instead answering the easy question and getting angry at hard question adherents, claiming they are moving the goalpost.
This made me think: maybe P zombies could be real, maybe otherwise smart people do believe that answering how cognition and brain states works DOES answer the question of consciousness because to them, there is no such thing as phenomenal consciousness
Anonymous at Mon, 22 Jul 2024 11:50:25 UTC No. 16292014
>>16289566
>consciousness
Consciousness is the one and only thing that collapses the quantum wave function thus making reality real.
Hope this helps.
>If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it fall....does it make a sound?
NO!
It doesn't fall at all and if/when someone does appear to observe the tree they will discover a tree on the ground having already fallen. No movement will have been made between the two states and thus no sound was ever produced. See "cat in a box" for more explanation.
Anonymous at Mon, 22 Jul 2024 12:05:16 UTC No. 16292025
>>16291953
Yes, I've thought the same thing.
>>16292014
You've got QM on your mind.
When all you have is a hammer everything is a nail.
Anonymous at Mon, 22 Jul 2024 12:13:40 UTC No. 16292028
>>16289566
Yes, that debunks the often repeated claim that consciousness is an epiphenomenon. So we're left with answering the question of how consciousness interacts with the physical world and since we have a good idea of how the physical world works and we know that the physical world is causally closed, we can only conclude that consciousness must be physical too.