🗑️ 🧵 Untitled Thread
Anonymous at Mon, 29 Jul 2024 23:54:59 UTC No. 16302597
if you truly believe there is no free will, you have to reach two practical conclusions: a) there is nothing you have done, nothing you have earned, that entitles you to anything more than any other person; there is no one who has earned less of a right to have their needs considered than you. b) hating someone makes as little sense as hating an earthquake.
Anonymous at Mon, 29 Jul 2024 23:56:47 UTC No. 16302599
>>16302597
yes and it's wonderful we don't have libertarian free will
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 00:07:13 UTC No. 16302606
That's why I'm a stoic.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 00:13:32 UTC No. 16302610
>>16302597
also if it's any tip, on a vitamin k overdose i saw that everyone moves to the atom in perfect synchrony like enmeshed gears as one being, that happens all the time meaning it's all a clockwork under the influence of too high a dose of k i saw this as the people around me moved in perfect unison as one entity or perfectly enmeshed gears made of flesh, all of use are the same thing and all of it is a clockwork
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 00:14:44 UTC No. 16302611
>>16302610
Hallucinations aren't accurate to reality
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 00:37:33 UTC No. 16302631
>>16302597
Yes, both of these are accurate conclusions.
Anyway, this is the science and math board. For philosophy, please refer to >>>/his/.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 01:21:36 UTC No. 16302656
>>16302611
Considering reality itself is a hallucination I'd say they are to some degree
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 02:49:14 UTC No. 16302753
>>16302631
isn't lit the philosophy board?
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 02:57:12 UTC No. 16302763
>>16302753
Is philosophy not humanities? I have been gravely misinformed, it seems.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 03:07:48 UTC No. 16302771
>>16302763
yeah but this is 4chan so history is just gonna be schizo shit
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 03:09:00 UTC No. 16302774
I only believe there's no free will if consciousness can be simulated.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 03:11:06 UTC No. 16302775
>>16302771
per /lit/ sticky:
>Philosophical discussion can go on either /lit/ or /his/, but those discussions of philosophy that take place on /lit/ should be based around specific philosophical works to which posters can refer.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 04:14:55 UTC No. 16302822
>>16302597
>a) there is nothing you have done, nothing you have earned, that entitles you to anything more than any other person; there is no one who has earned less of a right to have their needs considered than you.
Wrong, it implies morality is subjective and I can do whatever I want. The biologically predetermined trait of intelligence also makes me realize I'm better than others and am entitled to everything they have by virtue of my superiority to their biologically predetermined inferiority.
>b) hating someone makes as little sense as hating an earthquake.
The instincts for hatred are hardwired and if stimuli excites it then obviously it has a deterministic cause.
You're just a low IQ Christian trying to rationalize his heckin ethical framework because uhhh what if imaginary friend not real.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 05:50:49 UTC No. 16302860
>>16302656
Considering you admit you are just hallucinating, I'd say your admissions are flawed.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 06:36:01 UTC No. 16302888
>>16302597
>there is nothing you have done, nothing you have earned, that entitles you to anything more than any other person
yes, and because the belief in "free will" is basically a faith belief, it means the entire system of capitalism is a faith-based system. We literally live in a theocracy, the Theocracy of the Self.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 06:39:57 UTC No. 16302892
>>16302888
Sure, because the self totally doesn't exist other than by faith.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 07:58:58 UTC No. 16302939
>>16302597
If there is no free will then there is no point in arguing with people. You cannot convince them of anything because there is no independent rationality to appeal to. They will blindly follow their programming. Or do you talk to your computer and expect it to listen?
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 08:04:03 UTC No. 16302943
>>16302892
>because the self totally doesn't exist other than by faith.
yes, the "self" is empirically indeterminable, and philosophers have been going round and around it for millenia, as you know. Therefore, "choosing" and affirming a "self" is an act of faith, and implementing a system of possession, property, control, punishments, and rewards around the existence of a "self" is the implementation of a system of fait, i.e. a theocracy.
Capitalism is a theocracy.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 08:07:47 UTC No. 16302945
>>16302943
>yes, the "self" is empirically indeterminable
Yep, no specific dna markers or bundle of skin containing the self or anything at all to distinguish selves, its totally impossible to determine where one person ends and another begins, nice catch, how have nobody noticed this before?
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 09:13:18 UTC No. 16302986
>>16302597
sounds good, looks like nobody has free will after all.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 09:23:31 UTC No. 16302993
>>16302597
Your conclusions are defeated by their own supposed premise. If there is no free will, any course of action we take, whatsoever in any context, cannot have been our "own fault" in the sense that we could have done otherwise, but did not, because the course of action we took was predetermined or otherwise beyond the independent control of the "will", INCLUDING our own moral judgements of others. Nothing "makes sense", nothing has to "make sense", and we have no obligation whatsoever to pursue "sensibility". KYS
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 09:31:47 UTC No. 16303001
>>16302993
But he was determined to post his OP irregardless of whether it is consistent. Just like you were determined to seethe at it.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 14:53:36 UTC No. 16303340
>>16302597
People who deny freewill are literally just "dindu nuffins". They don't want to be accountable for their actions.
🗑️ Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 15:10:22 UTC No. 16303361
>>16303340
Yet most free will believers (christians) are africans (niggers).
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 15:13:41 UTC No. 16303363
>>16303361
Yet, you atheists chop off your cocks and push trannyism/crossdressing on kids.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 15:17:59 UTC No. 16303369
>>16303363
Interesting how you are unable to stay on topic, cock chopping is an abrahamic invention as is kiddy diddling.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 18:17:33 UTC No. 16303483
>>16302939
>Or do you talk to your computer and expect it to listen?
It does if you change the program. That's literally an entire class of job, writing programs.
Retarded frog
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 18:19:51 UTC No. 16303489
>>16302597
Free will is possible if consciousness collapses the wave function.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8E
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probl
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 18:35:00 UTC No. 16303509
Physics over zero
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 18:38:36 UTC No. 16303512
>>16303483
>Putting thoughts in someone's head is the same as programming them
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 18:39:52 UTC No. 16303513
>>16302888
>yes, and because the belief in "free will" is basically a faith belief
your taking way to big of a leap here.
you cant speak for all of us.
its not like that for me.
I believe in free will because i have it.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 18:41:02 UTC No. 16303514
>>16303513
You believe in free will because you think you have it, but too much thought into the actual function if it would show you don't have it.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 18:42:02 UTC No. 16303517
>>16302943
to me, thats not what faith means anymore
it now represents a psuedo false assumption of hope
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 18:42:08 UTC No. 16303518
>>16303514
Hello NPC. Consider that you don't have free will and it doesn't matter what you believe, but such limitations don't apply to non-NPCs.
Thank you.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 18:43:18 UTC No. 16303519
>>16303514
no im just not suicidal for no reason
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 18:47:57 UTC No. 16303528
>>16303518
Preprogrammed response to challenge of religious beliefs.
>>16303519
Preprogrammed desire from evolution culling suicidal tendencies from the gene pool of every species since the dawn of time
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 19:18:59 UTC No. 16303562
>>16303489
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8
I feel like the idea of free will is best described as the "ability to do otherwise."
Given some set of inputs, could one personally make a choice other than what they did make, or with those inputs was that choice guaranteed?
Even if we grant truly random quantum mechanics, which I personally do, this means a choice on some large enough timescale won't be 100% predictable, but it's not as though the individual person could control those inputs anymore than he could in a purely deterministic non-random universe.
Over short timescales, quantum mechanics doesn't affect the macro scale well enough to have any impact on brain activity, as far as we can tell, so regular determinism is still in effect.
The question I have is whether he goes to explain in the video how he believes one *could* affect quantum randomness, both in a way that's personal so that one could have "free will" and also how it would be able to affect local timescales in a way quantum affects don't currently seem to matter on macroscopic levels.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 20:07:53 UTC No. 16303624
>>16303513
>I believe in free will because i have it.
well, many say they believe in God because they feel it, or it talks to them, or vice-cersa, so, ya know, "free will" falls right into that imaginary box or non-empirical determination. It is therefore an act of faith to chose to believe in it.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 23:03:17 UTC No. 16303841
>>16303369
>Interesting how you are unable to stay on topic
You're the one that brought up other topics, schizo freewill-denying faggot.
>>16303528
Evolution is a religious belief, ignoramus.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 23:04:48 UTC No. 16303843
>>16303841
>Evolution is a religious belief, ignoramus.
No
What are the sacred objects of evolution?
The rituals?
The worship?
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 23:06:40 UTC No. 16303846
>>16303843
Preprogrammed response to challenge of religious beliefs.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 23:11:59 UTC No. 16303849
>>16303846
>claim
>no evidence
>deflects
classic
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 23:13:37 UTC No. 16303850
>>16303843
It's a huge leap of blind faith from the actual data and evidence to claiming life came from nonliving material then believing on blind faith that is the common ancestor of all life forms. That's not science, it's your religious creation myth you were indoctrinated and programmed to believe is "science". Nothing even remotely close to that is ever observed and it violates known laws. Your distorted definition of religion not only makes many religions not religions, but denies your own religious beliefs are religious in nature, your blind leaps of faith you don't even realize are leaps of faith. It's so tiresome talking to you evolutionist zealots, you people never learn.
>>16303849
>>claim
>>no evidence
>>deflects
That's what evolution schizos like you ALWAYS do. You can't prove it, so you post this trash. >>16303843 and >>16303849
Evolution has literally never been proven, you schizos just call *literally everything* evolution then claim that proves your retarded science-denying creation myth.
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 23:15:11 UTC No. 16303852
>>16303850
They have an "evolution of the gaps". They just say "evolution did it" no matter what's being discussed, like this: >>16303528
>Preprogrammed desire from evolution culling suicidal tendencies from the gene pool of every species since the dawn of time
"evolutiondidit"
Anonymous at Tue, 30 Jul 2024 23:22:49 UTC No. 16303868
>>16303850
Abiogenesis is not evolution. Evolution is speciation and natural selection among already living organisms.
Evolution is the only accepted theory of species diversification that explains all the data we have and has never ever ever not once been falsified.
Anonymous at Wed, 31 Jul 2024 00:34:16 UTC No. 16303940
>>16303868
>Abiogenesis is not evolution.
>kicking the can down the road
Classic. It's the foundation for your evolution religion.
>Evolution is speciation and natural selection among already living organisms.
You've clearly never studied natural selection.
>Evolution is the only accepted theory of species diversification that explains all the data we have and has never ever ever not once been falsified.
Not surprised you end your post with a lie and a mantra you evolutionschizos just parrot without thinking, it's a total lie. It explains nothing, you schizo retards call variations evolution then claim that proves the common ancestry to a single life form that magically came from nonlife.
You're a science-denying schizo.
Anonymous at Wed, 31 Jul 2024 00:36:51 UTC No. 16303944
>>16303940
>call variations evolution then claim that proves the common ancestry to a single life
And the evolutionschizo faggot won't even try to prove this, he focuses only on the part of that life form coming from nonlife and act like some faggot from snopes as though he "debunked' it.
Anonymous at Wed, 31 Jul 2024 00:37:58 UTC No. 16303947
>>16303940
Abiogenesis is a different theory than evolution.
I understand this is confusing, but evolution works on things that are already alive, which can adapt and evolve.
If you accept natural selection, and you accept speciation, you accept 100% of Darwin's theory of evolution.
It's made testable predictions and those have come true, so it's been vindicated yet again.
Has your religion done anything that the science of evolution has? Any testable claims? Falsifiable hypotheses? No. It's just faith.
Anonymous at Wed, 31 Jul 2024 00:44:35 UTC No. 16303954
>>16303944
The evolutionschizos can't prove anything, so they have to act like shit-eating redditors.
>>16303947
>Abiogenesis is a different theory than evolution.
>I understand this is confusing,
Refusing to address the arguments or even be honest or argue in good faith. As always.
>If you accept natural selection, and you accept speciation, you accept 100% of Darwin's theory of evolution.
You're so stupid. Natural selection only selects from information already present. You stupid retards never know what you're even talking about.
>Has your religion done anything that the science of evolution has? Any testable claims? Falsifiable hypotheses? No. It's just faith.
Pure projection. Funny you can't even defend your blind faith religion of evolutionism without trying to change topics. Loser.
Anonymous at Wed, 31 Jul 2024 00:46:00 UTC No. 16303957
>>16303954
>The evolutionschizos can't prove anything, so they have to act like shit-eating redditors.
Evolution theory is just schizo talk masquerading as scientific, and the dimwits and midwits are too stupid to ask questions or think critically. They're certainly not bold enough to say the emperor has no clothes, they wouldn't want to be mocked and insulted like evolution zealots always do to anyone who asks for proof of their blind faith beliefs.
Anonymous at Wed, 31 Jul 2024 00:48:12 UTC No. 16303959
>>16303954
There were no arguments.
>It's a religion!
I've already addressed that
>You're stupid!
Ok, and yet still smarter than you
>You're lying!
No.
All points addressed.
Do you have any questions as to the function of natural selection or speciation? I'm sure I'd be happy to answer those.
But of course, you're not curious, you don't have a desire to learn, you have a desire not to challenge your sacred beliefs, your religion.
Anonymous at Wed, 31 Jul 2024 00:48:34 UTC No. 16303960
>>16303947
Natural selection
>selects and removes information
This is scientific.
Mutations
>selects and distorts information
This is scientific.
Evolution religion
>claims new information is added zillions of times to create new kinds of creatures
This is religious. Never observed even once.
>Falsifiable hypotheses? No. It's just faith.
Evolutionists literally say "it takes too long" to prove evolution, which is why they have to call variations within a kind evolution and act like that proves man from apes or from fish or that all life came from a common ancestor.
Evolutionists are the dumbest people in the world and their religion is the dumbest blind faith creation myth; it's on the same level as thinking the earth is flat.
Anonymous at Wed, 31 Jul 2024 00:49:59 UTC No. 16303962
>>16303959
>There were no arguments.
More lies, classic. And now you bear false witness about what was said because you can't prove your blind faith religion so all you have is dishonesty.
You're just a retarded brainwashed redditor who can't think. >>16303957
Anonymous at Wed, 31 Jul 2024 00:51:14 UTC No. 16303966
>>16303947
>Has your religion done anything that the science of evolution has? Any testable claims? Falsifiable hypotheses? No. It's just faith.
>>16303959
>But of course, you're not curious, you don't have a desire to learn, you have a desire not to challenge your sacred beliefs, your religion.
Anonymous at Wed, 31 Jul 2024 00:55:33 UTC No. 16303975
>>16303960
>This is religious. Never observed even once.
We have speciation observed within human lifetimes. https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evo-
>it takes too long
link above, we've observed it, cool strawman though.
>you're dumb
No you.
Can you define "kind" for me? Why not show me two different "kinds" that scientists think are related but you think aren't?
As for humans being in the ape family, I'd challenge you to classify apes in such a way that includes all apes except humans without specifically mentioning people. If you want genetic proof, look into androgynous retroviruses. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar
Quote from the article:
>As was seen, the core notion of common descent and the heuristic rule that similarity implies common descent, have led to the emergence of the endogenization-amplification theory, which has become the dominant view of the origin of genomic retroviral-like sequences. The finding that large numbers of ERV elements are shared at orthologous loci in different species, strongly coheres with the combination of common descent and EAT. Furthermore, this view received unanticipated corroboration from the discovery of TSDs flanking many ERVs.
Basically it's saying common decent has solid grounded genetic evidence that is best explained through natural selection and evolution.
Anonymous at Wed, 31 Jul 2024 07:34:17 UTC No. 16304387
>>16303489
>if
there you go, undeterminable. To believe in "free will" is therefore an act of faith.
Anonymous at Wed, 31 Jul 2024 13:46:04 UTC No. 16304615
>>16303966
horseshoe crabs?
I think you need to watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlA