Anonymous at Sat, 19 Oct 2024 20:19:26 UTC No. 16440254

>>16440237
checks out.

all of our retarded abstract mathematics is only possible to think about because the physical universe allows us to.

Anonymous at Sat, 19 Oct 2024 20:20:37 UTC No. 16440256

>>16440237
It's valid logic, but neither of the premises are facts

Anonymous at Sat, 19 Oct 2024 20:52:23 UTC No. 16440296

>>16440256
Genuinely curious. Do either of the premises have factual alternatives?
I'm guessing you can't assume the first on the sole basis that we haven't found a material object which doesn't follow the rules of mathematics, and that's what I'm doing
For the second, I know it's been argued that "all events have a cause" is a false assumption because it cannot be supported by a-priori or a-posterior knowledge.
All that says I'm standing on shaky ground but it doesn't really offer me a stronger alternative.

6 at Sat, 19 Oct 2024 21:00:55 UTC No. 16440307

>>16440237
You are not schizo. Math is just an abstraction or point of reference for HUMANS. The universe doesn't operate on math.

Anonymous at Sat, 19 Oct 2024 21:54:42 UTC No. 16440375

>>16440237
There is no help, this is the very slippery slope between /sci/ and /x/.

/x/ claims material objects are a simulation in the mind a higher consciousness (mind of "God") much like a video game is a simulation in a computer. The real math exists prior to the simulated objects as codes in another dimension, created through free will. The seen is made by the unseen.

/sci/ have no explanation as to why math describes empirical data so well and don't care. It just works, so keep on shut-up and calculate and haul in the cash.

Anonymous at Sun, 20 Oct 2024 00:43:24 UTC No. 16440528

>>16440375
All mathematicians are closet platonists

Anonymous at Sun, 20 Oct 2024 23:44:33 UTC No. 16441889

>>16440237
No, mathematics follows physical rules. A field of study (like math) is studied by physical entities.

Anonymous at Sun, 20 Oct 2024 23:49:38 UTC No. 16441901

Not science

Anonymous at Sun, 20 Oct 2024 23:53:51 UTC No. 16441903

>>16440237
you're not schizophrenic. this is actually a very serious matter of debate and I've spent countless hours talking about it with my friends during college.
you're just a platonist and your friends aren't too bright.

Anonymous at Mon, 21 Oct 2024 00:00:24 UTC No. 16441915

Imagine if no matter and energy existed in the universe, there was only 3d space, except you existed, with chalk in your hand, you could draw all possible math equations and geometries on the blackboard of space.

Anonymous at Mon, 21 Oct 2024 00:30:22 UTC No. 16441956

>>16441915
>except you existed, with chalk in your hand, you could draw all possible math equations
Chalk on blackboard =/= drown

Anonymous at Mon, 21 Oct 2024 02:04:36 UTC No. 16442035

You guys need to read Plato. These issues were brought up and discussed at length thousands of years ago.

Anonymous at Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:52:36 UTC No. 16442422

>>16440237
That which isn’t locatable doesn’t exist.

Anonymous at Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:56:15 UTC No. 16442426

>>16440528
To a nominalst, not everything that is useful exists, e. g., taxonomic and linguistic categories.

Anonymous at Mon, 21 Oct 2024 14:07:55 UTC No. 16442558

>>16442422
Guess no bacteria existed before the invention of microscopes.

Anonymous at Mon, 21 Oct 2024 14:38:12 UTC No. 16442589

>>16442558
Numbers aren’t even theoretically locatable. Build an instrument that can locate them, then I’ll agree they exist.

Anonymous at Mon, 21 Oct 2024 17:27:19 UTC No. 16442794

>>16442589
They are theoretically locatable, if you subscribe to the simulation metaphysics.

Anonymous at Mon, 21 Oct 2024 18:34:30 UTC No. 16442887

>>16440237
If I define the Moon as "Green Cheese" then you are a moron.
True -> True is a True statement.

Anonymous at Mon, 21 Oct 2024 19:18:51 UTC No. 16442954

>>16442794
In base “reality” they could as easily be substanceless abstractions.

Anonymous at Mon, 21 Oct 2024 20:37:40 UTC No. 16443049

>>16442954
They would be real in base "reality", more real than physical objects.
Using the anology of a video game like Minecraft, the game guides (models) players construct to describe in-game physics from experimenting with gameplay would be "substanceless abstractions". However, the actual math and codes that is part of the computer of which renders the game reality itself is very real, and ontologically more real than the rendered game objects you experiment with during gameplay.

Anonymous at Mon, 21 Oct 2024 21:17:08 UTC No. 16443106

Mathematics is just a language to describe the rules. It was literally on the walls of my classroom when I was 9 years old. Nowadays they dont put shit like this up in classes because kids would literally not understand.

Anonymous at Tue, 22 Oct 2024 03:49:20 UTC No. 16443533

>>16442589
>Numbers aren’t even theoretically locatable. Build an instrument that can locate them, then I’ll agree they exist
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Anonymous at Wed, 23 Oct 2024 03:18:12 UTC No. 16445231

>>16440237
>If material objects are defined as following the rules of physics and mathematics, then mathematics must exist prior
If energy cannot be created or destroyed, there is no prior, math and energy has always existed

Anonymous at Wed, 23 Oct 2024 03:24:42 UTC No. 16445236

>>16440237
makes sense to me. the objects need the rules to exist, but the rules don't need the objects.

Anonymous at Wed, 23 Oct 2024 03:29:45 UTC No. 16445240

>>16440237
your schizophrenia is trying to show you the truth, but the math keeps getting in the way.
https://www.brighteon.com/d2d80db5-a9f0-4c87-a89a-af9ccd961e52

Anonymous at Wed, 23 Oct 2024 19:47:19 UTC No. 16446229

>>16445231
This belief hinges on math having an independent existence from the formulas we invent to describe it. In other words: you have to believe that math rules the universe whether we conceive of it or not.
If you can believe that, then mathematics would be an immaterial substance, like consciousness. And an immaterial thing does not rely on material energy.

If you are a pure materialist, and don't believe that immaterial things exist, then this whole discussion is a non-starter.

Anonymous at Thu, 24 Oct 2024 00:46:22 UTC No. 16446587

>>16446229
>>16446229
If something exists it must exist someway, it takes up space, it is of a geometry, and composed of quantity and quality, the basis of math.

All math needs is a 1d point and it's off to the races

Anonymous at Thu, 24 Oct 2024 03:38:06 UTC No. 16446752

>>16446587
Genuine question: do you believe that the formulas, the language, we use to describe whatever animates this geometry takes up space? Clearly this mathematical language is describing something independent of the language itself.

Anonymous at Thu, 24 Oct 2024 12:29:03 UTC No. 16447097

>>16440375
Do you have a link to this video?

Anonymous at Thu, 24 Oct 2024 12:53:01 UTC No. 16447115

My guess is we need mercury blocking the sun for us all the time

Anonymous at Thu, 24 Oct 2024 20:52:42 UTC No. 16447834

>>16446752
The ideal language of math describes ideal forms.

Nature even though being made of sloppy quarks and messy electrons, classicalizes up nicely to be able to formulate into closer to ideal forms than further, such as a sphere, circle, triangle, knotty tangle of hair.

Shape and proportion.
The logistical discussion of comparing possible points on possible graphs.

4d space.

1d dot. In 3d space. 4d is the idea of moving that dot around.

1,000 equal 1d dots. Space is a 3d/4d graph.

Make geometric shapes with the dots.
Group 5 dots here and 5 dots there.
Group those together.

Draw a curve from this dot to that, draw a right angle. Draw a parabola.

Anonymous at Thu, 24 Oct 2024 23:15:59 UTC No. 16447975

>>16446752
Look at a conch shell, what is the math the snail uses to build it?

Anonymous at Thu, 24 Oct 2024 23:24:56 UTC No. 16447980

>>16440237
if mathe or physiques exists first can be only approximated by your relative distance to an event horizon.