Anonymous at Sun, 27 Oct 2024 05:12:09 UTC No. 16451741

A thread died for this

Anonymous at Sun, 27 Oct 2024 20:40:08 UTC No. 16452730

>>16451732
>throwing in a random creationist non-sequitur at the end of the creationist rant
Fine bait sir, very well crafted

Anonymous at Sun, 27 Oct 2024 20:45:16 UTC No. 16452745

>>16451732
Evolution intuitively seems iffy to me as well.
Has there been any mathematical models to show the efficacy of it? Meaning that of random mutations then spreading, and having enough such mutations that successfully spread to create new species over the time scales discussed?
And I also don't understand how the situation you described would work.

Anonymous at Sun, 27 Oct 2024 20:47:01 UTC No. 16452749

>>16451732
>There’s never been a single observed case of a genetic mutation which has actually been beneficial
Based, elite athletes actually don't benefit from their mutations

🗑️ Anonymous at Sun, 27 Oct 2024 21:14:04 UTC No. 16452786

>>16452745
>Has there been any mathematical models to show the efficacy of it?
Yes, the math models show that evolution as science currently describes it should have on the order of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times longer than the scientists claim that it took

Anonymous at Sun, 27 Oct 2024 21:34:44 UTC No. 16452818

>>16451732
Egg spent less and less time outside the mother as the shell got thinner and thinner. It all happened gradually. This would also be beneficial as an egg can be eaten, whereas a mother or newborn can run away from predators. So there is selection pressure and a path from egg to no egg.

Stop guessing start learning at Sun, 27 Oct 2024 21:38:14 UTC No. 16452822

>>16451732
It's just a theory. No one truly knows. Any theory no proven expirementally should be taken with a grain of salt.

Instead they indoctrinate the masses with evolution as implicit truth.


There is evidence of evolution but the expressed evolutionary genes are very tiny.

For example the sounds or colors or techniques that the species uses. The species itself stays the same.

A good metaphor would be like putting mods on a Honda civic. Yea you change some things be the car is still a Honda civic

Anonymous at Sun, 27 Oct 2024 21:53:08 UTC No. 16452841

>>16452786
Only if you assume all changes happen by complete random chance instead of imposing basic selection rules, you disingenuous cocksucker.

Anonymous at Sun, 27 Oct 2024 21:57:18 UTC No. 16452851

>>16452822
Retard. No one asked you to spam your uninformed opinion all over the board

Anonymous at Sun, 27 Oct 2024 22:03:22 UTC No. 16452863

>>16452841
Selection rules are irrelevant because one reaches the optimal fit where further variation is negative. Further adaptation requires drivers which is even more spaced out.

Stop guessing start learning at Sun, 27 Oct 2024 22:09:43 UTC No. 16452875

>>16452851
My uninformed opinion. Bahahahahaha

My knowledge just doesn't align with yout bias.

I'm sorry biology is your religious doctrine.

Anonymous at Sun, 27 Oct 2024 22:26:53 UTC No. 16452886

One day, the egg accidentally stayed inside and hatched there and the baby then fell out or was pushed out. This had the benefit of not exposing the baby to threats while it was in the egg.

After holding the egg inside became the norm, then one day the mother accidentally created a thin membrane instead of a thick egg shell. This had the benefit of allowing nutrients to pass through the membrane, enhancing the health of the baby and reducing the need to produce the yolk.

Eventually, the egg became the placenta.

Anonymous at Mon, 28 Oct 2024 00:02:15 UTC No. 16452964

>>16452875
Schizophrenia

Anonymous at Mon, 28 Oct 2024 01:13:40 UTC No. 16453036

>>16451732
>How do you go from an egg laying animal to producing live young?
>You need to demonstrate it’s possible for an egg layer to slowly evolve to birth live young because that doesn’t make sense at all.

You just keep the eggs inside you, hatch them internally, and then give live birth. Sharks, snakes, and a handful of other reptiles already do this.
From there the womb eventually expands, the egg stops developing a shell (don't need it) turning into an amniotic sac, and then you have a more conventional live birth. Marsupials are the in-between or compromise of this process in that they don't really build up a placenta and just give birth to a tiny jellybean into their pouch that they raise with meticulous care.

Anonymous at Mon, 28 Oct 2024 01:26:57 UTC No. 16453055

>>16451732
You hold the egg in until it hatches.

Anonymous at Mon, 28 Oct 2024 01:30:16 UTC No. 16453059

>>16453036
Sorry, bro. Missed your post.
I (>>16453055) am a fool.

Anonymous at Mon, 28 Oct 2024 02:23:17 UTC No. 16453123

>>16452745
There have been mathematical models but it doesn't matter because we have something even better: Scientists have observed evolution happening live on species of fruit flies that have very short lifespans. It's not up for debate.

Anonymous at Mon, 28 Oct 2024 02:26:59 UTC No. 16453128

>>16453123
https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/fruit-flies-microbiomes-shape-their-evolution

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Oct 2024 07:52:05 UTC No. 16455675

>>16451732
Just hold the egg in your innards, dont lay the egg, just hold it in, then you lay the baby and not the egg.

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Oct 2024 13:57:13 UTC No. 16455832

>>16451732
wrong

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 01:05:21 UTC No. 16456479

Retard thread. Delete it, mods.

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 04:17:37 UTC No. 16456644

>>16451732
There are lizards that have both egg-laying and live-bearing individuals within a single species. Live bearing to egg laying isn’t a huge jump, reptile lineages in particular can swap back and forth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viviparous_lizard

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 05:06:12 UTC No. 16456671

this thread may be stupid but maybe it made op believe in evolution lol

I think evolution lines up like it takes about 50,000 generations for something to turn into something else. That sounds about right.

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 06:09:29 UTC No. 16456695

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 08:51:39 UTC No. 16456757

>>16456695
Lol

Barkon at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 09:25:37 UTC No. 16456774

>>16456757

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 09:45:15 UTC No. 16456779

>>16451732
>egg is held in body longer for protection
>eventually egg remains in body until time of hatching
>evolutionary pressure for egg shell is eliminated

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 09:52:46 UTC No. 16456784

>>16451732
You lack imagination. Very disappointing.

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 10:26:09 UTC No. 16456800

>>16451732
Going from an egg to a sac isn't hard

Barkon at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 10:29:19 UTC No. 16456802

>>16456800
You're retarded, egg or sac. It won't work with you - you don't work.

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 11:40:20 UTC No. 16456833

>>16452875
Shut up retard

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 12:58:52 UTC No. 16456878

>>16456779
You can't get snakes from chicken eggs

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:12:49 UTC No. 16456944

>>16451732
> they’re just going to keep producing eggs because that’s how they reproduce

true, that is why every animal on our planet is producing eggs.

When women is ovulating her ovaries are releasing an ovum (a human egg cell) which is a human egg. (yeah it is an egg in the same way chicken eggs are eggs)

only difference is that in mammals egg stays and develops inside the woman until it hatches while in birds, fish, reptiles and amphibians lay fertilized eggs outside to develop and hatch there.

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:15:40 UTC No. 16456949

>>16456944
this

also eggs are not unique for animals either, plants have egg cells and sperm cells as well (funny thing is that plant sperm cells usually have multiple tails and sometimes swim backwards)

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:29:52 UTC No. 16456962

>>16456949
Plants don't have eggs or sperm retard. They gestate from sunlight and spread seeds from regrowth potential. They sweat to reproduce. Simple as.

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:36:47 UTC No. 16456974

>>16456962
Can't say if you just prematurely spoke without factchecking it

or if you are an idiot who thinks his opinion is facts.

Or if you are a retarded vegan friendly cuck.

but you are obviously wrong mister, plants do have sperm cells (actually produced by pollen) and egg cells, they do need to meet in an act of "pollination" to be able to create a fertilized egg we call a seed.

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:42:00 UTC No. 16456980

>>16456962
Dude:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317825673_Sperm_cells_are_passive_cargo_of_the_pollen_tube_in_plant_fertilization

hope you were trolling cuz its hella embarasing to say something like that when its obviously bullshit.

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 19:04:41 UTC No. 16457295

>>16456878
Good thing nobody ever said snakes come from chickens

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 23:27:44 UTC No. 16457544

>>16451741
fpbp, too much /pol/ cringe on /sci/ these days.
education is going down fast and people started to talk shit like 'science is just another religion'.
as if you could touch a socket when you say 'I dont believe in electricity'.
soon there will only be dull-witted broken retards left throwing their shit all over the forums.

Anonymous at Fri, 1 Nov 2024 21:57:19 UTC No. 16458914

>>16456962
Leave

Anonymous at Sat, 2 Nov 2024 07:43:15 UTC No. 16459407

>>16451732
>My problem with evolution
I sounds like you have a problem with macroevolution, not evolution as a whole. But I'll try to answer you since this is one of the most interesting problems in evolutionary biology.

>How do you go from an egg laying animal to producing live young?
At some point in time, a population of animals, for whatever reason, began hatching its eggs internally instead of laying the eggs.
Obviously, we cannot go back in time, nor do we know with 100% certainty what happened, but current mammals give us some hints:
Monotremes are mammals that lay eggs. The platypus and the four species of echidnas still lay eggs. This suggests that of the many mammalian features, live birthing was a late evolutionary step.
Next we have marsupials. Those animals give birth to a barely formed embryo, which crawls it way into the mother's pouch once born, and finishes there, externally to the mother's body, its gestation process. This suggests that the next step was for monotremes to hatch the eggs internally, and giving birth to vulnerable embryos, which in turn promoted the "pouch" adaptation to safeguard the wellbeing of the embryos and not leave them exposed.
From there, modern mammals evolved, with more developed newborns being born, and skipping the previous process altogether.

Anonymous at Sat, 2 Nov 2024 07:45:56 UTC No. 16459408

>>16451732
>>16459407
>Did they go from laying eggs to 1 day a mammal was born from a non mammal?
We don't know the exact sequence, we were not there, and the fossil record is like an eroded, tattered old book with lots of missing and degraded pages, but yes, one day, in a sufficiently reproductively isolated group of animals, a female animal was born either with a new mutation, or a novel combination of genes, which allowed her to not lay an egg. That female, though different from the other females, did not differ enough from the other population animals to the point where she could not reproduce with the males. In that way, she copulated with at least one male, and her offspring carried those genetic traits. Her offspring themselves might have also not laid eggs, and that genetic variant survived until today. It might have not have been reproductively advantageous, it might have just been passed onwards through Genetic Drift (randomness with no clear advantage), but it survived until today (primitive marsupials)

Anonymous at Sat, 2 Nov 2024 07:48:11 UTC No. 16459410

>>16451732
>There’s never been a single observed case of a genetic mutation which has actually been beneficial.
That is not true, you're literally describing microevolution, which happens everyday, everywhere.

Anonymous at Sat, 2 Nov 2024 08:19:22 UTC No. 16459434

>>16459408
>a female animal was born either with a new mutation, or a novel combination of genes, which allowed her to not lay an egg
You also need to understand that the mutation, or combination of already existing genes, might not have originated in that female. It might have originated in her father, and only have been expressed phenotypically in her, but the point is that indeed, one first female must have been born with such a trait, a female which then reproduced and passed those traits onto their offspring.

Anonymous at Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:46:26 UTC No. 16461157

>>16451732
It generally doesn't change slowly over time. This is one of the most misunderstood parts of evolution, by both evolutionists and non-evolutionists. Evolution (read: autopoietic systems) optimizes for a very stable niche and then does not change frequently at all. Autopoietic systems tend to NOT change once they have optimized.

What actually causes the kind of significant evolution we are used to seeing are cases where populations reach extremely small counts by virtue of natural disasters, rapid ecological change, or introduction of new species. In these cases, genetic changes occurring in species will spread very rapidly through the entire population due to almost mandatory near- or distant-relative incest, and co-occur, causing rapid changes in behavior and morphology.

"Slow" in this case should be understood as a period as low as a few centuries. For example, for live births, consider a species which lay eggs that incubate to hatch. There is some period of time between when the egg is fertilized and when it is laid. In a situation where total species count suddenly drops and the species is exposed to predation against eggs, there is now enormous pressure to reduce the amount of time eggs can be predated. Members of the species that incubate eggs for a longer and longer time will tend to outlive those who do not. These genes proliferate rapidly, and over a few cycles the species may reach a point where eggs are laid with viable offspring inside them, and at that point there's no longer an advantage for laying the egg at all. We can see then how easily the line tips over to simply laying live offspring instead of forming a dense outer shell to protect the newborn.

Anonymous at Sun, 3 Nov 2024 19:16:59 UTC No. 16461270

>>16453128
Okay, now prove that these shifts will not revert back to what it was previously. Evolution means that you change from A to B irrevocably, not that you develop A+ form different food, unless you mean that obese people are an evolved homo sapiens

Anonymous at Mon, 4 Nov 2024 10:31:36 UTC No. 16461947

>>16451732
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z-JjqVj9y8

Anonymous at Mon, 4 Nov 2024 12:41:03 UTC No. 16462030

>>16461157
Stress is what triggers evolution.