Anonymous at Mon, 28 Oct 2024 07:41:55 UTC No. 16453315

>>16453310
yay

Anonymous at Mon, 28 Oct 2024 08:02:38 UTC No. 16453326

culture orbitals are so much prettier and rotate only once per day

Anonymous at Mon, 28 Oct 2024 21:50:31 UTC No. 16454045

>>16453310
They are the most efficient in terms of living space per atom, but we're so far from the sort of post scarcity civilization where that's the main consideration that it isn't even worth thinking about. O'Neil's ideas are half a century outdated, and Bezos is a retard for making it his goal

Anonymous at Mon, 28 Oct 2024 21:51:25 UTC No. 16454047

>>16453326
Describe them

Anonymous at Mon, 28 Oct 2024 22:30:55 UTC No. 16454093

>>16454047
Cultur Orbitals are immense, ring-shaped space stations with a diameter of about 1.85 million kilometers and a circumference of approximately 3.71 million kilometers. They are ~2,000 km-wide rings made of a base supporting a 20 km-thick habitable layer with Earth-like features, including mountains, continents, oceans, and an atmosphere, ideal for human and terrestrial life. The inner surface area spans about 23.31 million square kilometers.
The air is held by the centrifugal force and bariers on the sides.

Basicly the size comes from the fact that they rotate once a day and still generate 1G on the surface. You life on the inside of the ring and have earth like terrain there.
They orbit a sun.

you can read more about them here:
https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4845ef5c4ca7c?origin=serp_auto

or read IIan Banks Culture Novels

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 00:00:34 UTC No. 16454186

>>16453310
Maybe.
But even in case they are not imminent.

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 00:05:34 UTC No. 16454194

>>16453310
Build all that, space pebble cracks the glass and everything is vacuumed out in seconds

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 00:08:00 UTC No. 16454197

>>16454093
So build artificial habitable Saturn rings around earth? Just send up more and more isses and connect them one by one? And hope you can control it if gravity does something weird or satellite debris

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 00:36:19 UTC No. 16454241

>>16454197
no fuck there is no fucking planet or sun in the middle of the orbital.
it's just a spinning ring in the habital zone of a solar system

it's a spinning ring in space, a big ring, but just a ring.
look at the pictures i posted
you constuct the base in weightlessness and than start spinning it

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 01:17:29 UTC No. 16454269

I don't think O'Neill had a good architecture; spinning gets chaotic in zero g.
First inhabited structures in deep space will be spinning dumbbells of asteroid rubble, the colonists being miners digging tunnels in the rubble. Bennu and Ryugu look good for it.
The miners might have enough spare metal to build spinning wheels (in opposite directions).

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 04:58:27 UTC No. 16454463

>>16454194
>everything is vacuumed out in seconds
You're not talking about a coffee can full of air. An O'Neill Cylinder maxes out at 4 MILES in diameter and is 20 MILES long. Residents can take their time repairing >space pebble cracks.

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 05:01:07 UTC No. 16454465

>>16454269
O'Neill had this worked out. Couple 2 cylinders side-by-side and counter-rotating.

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 05:03:29 UTC No. 16454467

>>16453310
Yay! t.- ex L5 Society member

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 08:46:17 UTC No. 16454585

>>16454463
That guy pops up at any thread about cylinders, pretty much repeat the same bs no matter how many times they explain how wrong he is.

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 13:14:09 UTC No. 16454713

>>16453310
yea

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 13:19:20 UTC No. 16454717

>>16454093
>mini Ringworlds
How is the inner surface illuminated and temperature maintained? Mirrors? "Magic force field"?

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 15:16:38 UTC No. 16454815

>>16454717
the inner surface is illuminated by the fucking sun it orbits same as a planet.
the orbital is slighty tilted so that the sun is shining inside giveing you a nice 24 hour day/night cycle

about the temerature, i told you allready, it orbits the star in the habital zone.

i have written a rust simulation with bevy for this but never got the lighting right as the engine breaks at big scales and shaddows start glitching bad so i show you a quite bad rendering from the web instead, but i should allow you to understand how the lighting works. the side that is closer to the star/sun is in shaddow while the other side is in direct sunlight.
you even can get sessions when playing with the angle of the orbital to the sun

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 15:36:55 UTC No. 16454839

>>16453310
I guess there's better way to achieve artificial gravity...

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 15:41:00 UTC No. 16454845

>>16454815
screenshot from my rust resolution, it's very pixelated, but you should still get the idea.
everything is to scale except the distances

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 15:47:21 UTC No. 16454855

>>16454845
orbital next to earth and moon

i did this to test out bevy btw, but i have to say it's no real alternative a game engiene in it's current state

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 16:25:19 UTC No. 16454882

>>16454855
This is awesome, thanks for sharing

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 16:46:06 UTC No. 16454899

>>16453310
How would you even produce that much glass. That would be like a billion panels with not structural support at all.

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 17:10:43 UTC No. 16454937

>>16454815
During night, you'd see an arch across the sky from the part of the ring that's in its daytime period. Wonder how much light that would be compared to the phases of our Moon.

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 17:33:07 UTC No. 16454959

>>16453326
And impossible to build with current tech, so who gives a shit? O'Neill Cylinders don't require materials with strength on the order of nuclear force
>>16454899
With factories on the Moon and at lagrange points. The glass would be supported with a fishnet of steel cables.

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 18:58:01 UTC No. 16455085

I'm not sure what materials would be needed to construct an Orbital; however, it only has to withstand 1G and support whatever weight is placed on it. I think this would be similar to an O'Neill Cylinder, which also generates around 1G, so the force at any given point would likely be comparable for the bare base structure.

The real load would come from the payload: water, land, oceans, and mountains covering the surface. I want 10 km deep oceans and 10 km high mountains, which match the scale we have on Earth. That’s how I arrived at the 20 km thickness above the base structure. No known material could support that, but in the novel, they use field generators to assist in supporting the structure.

As I mentioned, and correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the load at any point in the structure itself would be comparable in an O'Neill Cylinder and a Culture Orbital, as the load is based on G-force and mass rather than circumference. However, an O'Neill Cylinder would be easier to build due to its smaller size.

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 21:24:58 UTC No. 16455272

>>16455085
I've done the calcs and the forces on a ring spinning to produce 1 g would be many time the theoretical strength on any known material. If I'm thinking of the correct lore, the rings are held together by some kind of force field. O'Niell cylinders are bullshit too. Keeping it pointed at the sun just wouldnt work.

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 21:38:02 UTC No. 16455291

>>16455272
but it would be the same for a large orbital as for a small one?
namely 9.81 N for 1 kg?

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 21:47:25 UTC No. 16455301

>>16455272
and yes, in the Culture novels, he explains this by the use of "force fields," which are not further elaborated upon.

However, the same issue would arise for an O'Neill Cylinder. The local forces on each element would be the same, depending only on the G-force and the payload in terms of mass.

So, a single steel T-beam circle would hold while spinning at 1G, whether it's 1 km, 100 km, or one million kilometers in circumference. The local force on each element would not exceed 9.81 N /kg.

Of course, we couldn't place heavy buildings on it, as the steel couldn't bear that load, but this limitation would apply to O'Neill Cylinders as well.

Or am I overlooking something here?

Of cause things like inertia and imperfect rotation could easly rip the orbital apart.. but as long as it spins stable it should be from a material standpoint be as plausible as a O'Neill Cylinder?

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 22:37:50 UTC No. 16455353

>>16455291
The larger diameter you go, the tensile stress on the support structure is larger under that same 1 g. I don't remember the specific numbers, but think of a cable hanging by it's ends in an arc on Earth. If it is, say 10 feets, the stress on the cable is negligible. Go a mile and it might not even support its own weight. Same principle.

With O'niell cylinders, the stress on the spinning shell is well within the strength of meteoritic nickle iron, but there is the problem of keeping it pointed at the sun, and gravity alone will not do it. O'niell just hand waived it with the idea of couter-rotating cylinders in a common frame, but the mechanics of that would be ridiculous, and that is what would require mass quantities of unobtainium.

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 22:47:07 UTC No. 16455361

>>16455353
I thought counter-rotating cylinders was primarily to cancel out the dzhanibekov effect.

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 23:32:40 UTC No. 16455391

>>16455361
>dzhanibekov
That's the word I was looking for (or "tennis racket"); thanks. I'm this samefag >>16454269
Anyway as far as stress on the shell, the same fabric they're planning for inflatable habitats, since they work for air, should also work for regolith and meteor pebbles. Like sandbags. And they don't even have to keep the air in, there should be sealed internal corridors for that. Just keep the rubble in place for shielding.

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 23:53:33 UTC No. 16455405

>>16455353
i can't really follow your argument, the cable example on earth seems irrelevant. a cable in space could be a million km long and not snap if its stable, if i knot a loop and spin it it would still not snap from the rotation. a steel cable on earth snaps under its own wight pulling it down but in space there is nothing pulling you down.

>>16455361
any type of stagger, lurch or wobbeling would have catastrophic consequences for structures like these, they have to spin absolutly stable for the entirety of thier lifetime

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 23:53:49 UTC No. 16455406

>>16454815
So, the sun would appear at the edge of the ring in the morning, rise to directly overhead by "noon", then "sets" at the same edge like a yo-yo exactly 12 hours after sunrise. At night, the illuminated section of the ring is an arch brighter than a dozen full moons, so it would be permanent dusk, except maybe towards midnight. Terrible for watching stars, but you could use a telescope to spy on your neighbors across the ring from you.

Weird vibe.

>>16455272
>any known material
Any "known" material, or any conceivable material, like carbon nanotube mesh? You can't fuck around with measly human constraints when you're talking about post-singularity supercivilizations...

Anonymous at Tue, 29 Oct 2024 23:56:22 UTC No. 16455408

>>16455405
better framerate

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Oct 2024 00:05:42 UTC No. 16455417

>>16455406
not sure how bright it actually would be..
i need a better simulation for that..

moon has a 3.474 km diameter and is ~364.000 km far away orbital is ~2000km wide and the oposite side is about 1.85 million kilometers far away. so it would be more like a thin band..

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Oct 2024 00:08:55 UTC No. 16455419

>>16453310
i like gundam so yay

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Oct 2024 00:13:45 UTC No. 16455422

>>16455408

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Oct 2024 00:26:06 UTC No. 16455425

>>16455422
looks fun

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Oct 2024 01:42:32 UTC No. 16455468

>>16455406
It seems likely there would be some outward facing ports, which would give you the ability to stargaze by looking down instead of up.

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Oct 2024 12:42:00 UTC No. 16455798

>>16454093
So basically Halo?

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Oct 2024 13:27:12 UTC No. 16455824

>>16455798
just way bigger, Installation 04 (the ringworld in the halo games) has a diameter of 10.000 km while culture orbitals have a diameter of about 1.85 million km.
A halo ringworld there would not give you a 24 hour day at 1G.

Anonymous at Thu, 31 Oct 2024 17:55:19 UTC No. 16457235

>>16453310
SeS

Anonymous at Sat, 2 Nov 2024 02:06:12 UTC No. 16459177

>>16453310
I don't trust the open plan ones like that not to lose atmosphere as they inevitably get behind on maintenance.

Anonymous at Sat, 2 Nov 2024 05:16:00 UTC No. 16459312

>>16454269
Most depictions get it wrong, they're built as counter rotating pairs
https://youtu.be/pSsWkooeIds&t=51s