Anonymous at Wed, 12 Feb 2025 19:42:40 UTC No. 16583907

>>16583903
Deterministic expert systems are vastly superior technology to generative AI.

Anonymous at Wed, 12 Feb 2025 19:44:05 UTC No. 16583909

>>16583907
If we outsource thinking to a machine, we lose the ability to think.
Use it or lose it.

Anonymous at Wed, 12 Feb 2025 21:22:49 UTC No. 16584001

>>16583909
No we get augmented capabilities

Anonymous at Wed, 12 Feb 2025 21:46:50 UTC No. 16584012

>>16584001
The funny thing is, I often make threads where I criticize AI, and then someone gives my arguments to chatGPT and pastes the response to my thread.
That kind of proves my point. People no longer think. People can no longer come up with unique arguments, they're also too lazy to type.
They just copy a favorable pre-written argument from their IQ 200 pocket person and give me a thumbs down.

Anonymous at Wed, 12 Feb 2025 22:09:32 UTC No. 16584025

I think you are mixing some stuff OP.

You don't study just to do good for humanity do you?
You can study and choose to not contribute to causes you think are wrong.
Addressing your doomsday scenario-
A very small portion of history ever had people truly studying Science with passion. Each time brought its own suits of problem and if you try to be the big man, you are never gonna be able to live in peace. Try to live a little more personally. Study what you want and do what you like and follow your gut. Since you only got this one life to enjoy. Don't mix up your personal studies with something so grand.
I would recommend watching a video titled Optimistic Nihilism by In a Nutshell, It has some really good points.
My take might be dumb but do watch that video.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 07:37:02 UTC No. 16584418

>>16583903
I think you can say that the way we use technology is fundamentally flawed but not be against it.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 07:46:56 UTC No. 16584420

People need food, water, energy. Why not just be an engineer for a field that makes shit people need to live instead of imaginary tech shit if it bothers you so much.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 07:50:02 UTC No. 16584422

>>16583903
I'm an Anarcho-Capitalist Primitivist, more and more i see the problems with technology, the best solution i see to this is the Amish, they still use technology, but limit it, while remaining a capitalist society, but with tradition being honored.
Humans are a relatively new species and we are learning how to deal with the question of technology, instead of giving up this could be your innovation, to answer this question for the future generations, your question is at the cutting edge of human ideas, remember, the industrial revolution only happened 200 odd years ago, that's not even a streak of piss in the span of a species, but it is a very important question.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 07:57:23 UTC No. 16584426

>>16583903
Technology really does seem like some kind of demonic force in that it seems to be marching us along a path of greater and greater human vice and evil. And technology wedded with consumerism is like the ultimate evil force. It feels like we've dropped a nuclear bomb on the human psyche. Technology should have only been developed in balance with a corresponding level of virtue. Technology without virtue is the death of the human spirit. I really believe we are already dead. Every generation of humans seem to be lowering more and more into a bestial state, more vice, more evil.
Really the Greeks had everything figured out. We are just living in their shadow forever.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 08:26:07 UTC No. 16584446

Woawoah is it 2014 again? Le primitivism?

Shut the fuck up.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 08:44:09 UTC No. 16584458

>>16583903
Go into biology then.

I first went into medicine. I learned a very machinistic way of how the body worked, I got influence of biology regarding how life grows when it possibly can. I learned to see things from people's perspective from the necessity of convincing them or making something of schizo disordered thought.

Then I went into CS. Everything is rooted in what's useful to business, what's useful to people, what constraints laws or clients demand. Complete anthropocentrism and even the bullshit classes like philosophy are geared towards this.

Almost as if biology were the absolute truth or rooted in it, What we have is what was possible and most fit. There is no other way around it, there is no helping it, and if the matter is about people behaving like bacteria driving an organism to the irreversible tipping point of death, then all you can do is make use of your personal time in it.

It only happens what is possible to happen. If it's not happening it's because it was impossible all along.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 08:46:10 UTC No. 16584460

>>16584422
>anarcho capitalist
>praises literal communism (since amish live in literal communes)

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 10:33:35 UTC No. 16584541

Just enjoy the ride as best as you can. I'm the same way but I develop software. I have no delusions that any of my work improves the world. It's all degenerate. Who the fuck cares if your useless webapp just HAS TO HAVE a 99.99% uptime guarantee? All this tech, all these tools, so many engineers going to such extreme lengths, in support of not losing a few minutes of money-making. Truly a worthless endeavor that nobody would miss.

I find it funny that it's all in support of convenience and "saving" labor yet if one drops 90% of modern technology there's still more than enough hours in the day to do your work and maintain your household. Hundreds of years of mechanization and yet we still work 40 hours plus. It's gotten worse, not better - most women used to stay at home instead of work.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 10:45:54 UTC No. 16584549

>>16584541
>I find it funny that it's all in support of convenience and "saving" labor yet if one drops 90% of modern technology there's still more than enough hours in the day to do your work and maintain your household. Hundreds of years of mechanization and yet we still work 40 hours plus. It's gotten worse, not better - most women used to stay at home instead of work.

This. I'm so sick and tired of everyone celebrating how technology "liberates us" from tedious chores and saves time.
Nobody sees the big picture. If anything, I work longer hours and get less pay than I did 15 years ago. And save time for what? All the extra time is spent watching mind-numbing Tiktok vids.
I'm old enough to have actually witnessed first hand how nothing is improving. The machines we use advance, we dont. There's a difference. The phone in my hand is superior to the phone I had in 2005, but my life isn't. I go out and I see how people are more tired and aggressive, women are no longer women, jobs are shit, public transport is shit, banks are shit, schools are shit, healthcare is shit, I guess the climate is getting shit too.

I think if we had just stayed as fishermen who build log cabins and shit, we would've been better off. Why are we so afraid of being in harmony with nature? It's like we fear nature. We want to isolate ourselves from it, and nausea is the result.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 10:48:34 UTC No. 16584554

>>16584549
This has more to do with capitalism than labour saving technology. Unfortunately ted k was too trans to see this (as are you I'm guessing)

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 10:51:07 UTC No. 16584556

>>16584554
Labor-saving technology shouldn't exist, because we always become dependent on it and lose our skills.
You cant even walk on your own planet with your own feet because you started wearing shoes and your feet got too soft.
Shoes were a mistake. This goes for every invention ever made.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 10:51:38 UTC No. 16584557

>>16584549
>The machines we use advance, we dont
it's literally by fucking design. you aren't meant to go anywhere, you're meant to work. you are working class, not elite. you are allowed to live and breathe because you work. that's your purpose.
still, what the west is allowing is you getting a chance NOT to, if you're lucky and smart and all that jazz.
you are not in the same situation because there aren't enough resources. there is no amount of resources that would change your condition as long as your work is required. you being in shit is what guarantees you work.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 11:00:01 UTC No. 16584564

>>16584557
We will soon reach a point where AI has removed so many jobs that we have a millions of unemployed, educated males who have nothing to do, but they also dont qualify for disability welfare.
What will happen?
My theory is that they will give the unemployables some kind of UBI in the form of digital money, but there is a catch. There will definitely be a catch. The digital money is monitored and controlled. You're not allowed to buy meat, for instance. They will keep you as poor and malnutritioned as possible.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 11:04:08 UTC No. 16584566

>>16584564
theoretically UBI should work but it's a weak patch. you'll have inequality because of human nature. the west has a worst time because the "you have a chance to make it" will be fucked. no chance to "make it" under UBI.
but again, since humans specialized for tens of thousands of years to have value as long as they work it will inevitably prompt the question of "why should we pay for nothing for so many people that also pose a danger to us elites?" which has one answer, from their perspective.
as I said, no amount of resources would change the state of things for the common folk, not even when his work isn't required anymore.
such are humans. the red pill is that you'd do exactly the same if you were "the elites". anyone one of us would, statistically speaking, not in absolute terms of-course.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 11:04:26 UTC No. 16584567

>>16584556
Ok, stop using the computer and shitting up 4chan with your pathetic nigger tier whining then.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 11:16:38 UTC No. 16584576

DUDE I can't enjoy life because I have to wear shoes, I wish I was living in a mud hut and the world was a mystery to me.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 11:17:39 UTC No. 16584580

OH MY GOOOOOOOD we used to live under the stars and now we live in cucked mudhuts, progress is so evil this is fuckkkked

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 11:18:50 UTC No. 16584582

>>16584566
The problem is that there literally aren't enough job openings for everyone.
Nobody believes this or wants to believe this, but we're being robbed of any chance to "make it". People want to stay in their comfort zone and keep saying "everyone can make it", "it's your own fault, stop blaming society", "you need to adapt" etc.
But it will not be possible. For the sake of argument, let's say our population is 20 million and there are 5 job openings in the entire country, because everything is either run by a machine or outsourced to India. And we know those 5 jobs will be given to black people, gay people, and women, because of DEI quotas. So what is adaptation and "making it" in this scenario? Crime. Nobody will roll over and die willingly.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 11:23:01 UTC No. 16584588

Technology has made some systems more ineffective due to intervening ideologies like Capitalism, yes. Just like luxury beliefs exist, we have luxury systems and laws. We could run society, house, feed, clothe, and provide energy to everyone in America with tens of percentages less labor than we do. We don't because it would change power structures.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 11:23:18 UTC No. 16584589

>>16584582
>Nobody will roll over and die willingly.
the elites know this. and the buck doesn't stop at plebs, same applies to them. think they'll live happily ever after in harmony because they're elites? lol nah.
they also face the very same game mechanic issue, Ouroboros bit its own tail already. only a matter of time.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 11:48:37 UTC No. 16584630

>>16584588
Exactly. But this is less sexy a boutique ideology than half hearted anarcho primitivism.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 11:49:57 UTC No. 16584634

>>16584588
>We don't because it would change power structures.
no shit Einstein. other deep insights you got for us?

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 12:03:17 UTC No. 16584653

>>16583909
This is a problem with all technology regardless of how advanced it is. Technology can be either used to replace our capabilities or improve them. You can make the same argument about a monkey that figured out how to open nuts with a rock, it's going to evolve less muscle strength because it no longer needs that much strength for opening nuts.

"Use it or lose it" is true from an evolutionary standpoint, but not true for intelligent design. A retarded human drives a car, get obese because they don't have to walk anymore and dies of heart failure. An intelligent human drives a car, but also goes to the gym to exercise. Their capabilities have been augmented by technology.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 12:06:52 UTC No. 16584655

>>16583909
>>16584653
you are both absolute dissonant retards. that is not a thing. majority of people on Earth can barely put two and two together. they never had anything that they ever lost, and they won't lose anything because there's nothing to lose.
your world is just very small and your minds are very weak. clueless morons

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 12:07:09 UTC No. 16584657

>>16584422
>the best solution i see to this is the Amish
The amish exist only because the technologically advanced societies that surround them allow it. The moment you try to enforce this on a large scale, you're getting shot with state of the art technology.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 12:09:52 UTC No. 16584660

>>16584549
>And save time for what? All the extra time is spent watching mind-numbing Tiktok vids.
Massive skill issue. You literally have the greatest library to date at the tip of your fingerprints but cry about having nothing constructive to do with your time. Quit blaming tech for your own retarded choices.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 12:16:06 UTC No. 16584667

>>16584655
>majority of people on Earth can barely put two and two together.
That's an extraordinary statement, do you have extraordinary evidence? Almost every person i have interacted with can do 2+2 without any effort, including poor africans.
>that is not a thing.
I drive a car and exercise. Sounds like a you problem. Have you considered that you're one of the people who can barely put two and two together, and that's why you can't figure out how to use technology to augment your capabilities?

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 12:21:56 UTC No. 16584678

>>16584667
the argument was people at large don't do calculus, thus losing the ability to do calculus because they offload it to computers.
your world is small and you have no idea about what beyond your small idiotic horizon.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 12:45:55 UTC No. 16584697

>>16584678
>the argument was people at large don't do calculus, thus losing the ability to do calculus because they offload it to computers.
People interested in doing calculus do it regardless. What exactly is your problem with people skipping calculus if they don't need it?
>inb4 It makes them stupid! People should do all things the hard way!
Do you hold yourself to the same high standard in every aspect of your life too? Do you refuse to take a plane to another country and choose to go on a years long walking/swimming journey as to not erode your physical fitness and navigational skills? Or are you a hypocrite?
>your world is small and you have no idea about what beyond your small idiotic horizon.
But yours is large? I bet i can explore more of the world and widen my horizons much more by taking flights than you can doing your journeys.

Stop guessing start learning at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 15:06:13 UTC No. 16584813

>>16583903
Technology as the source of our problems are overblown and grossly exaggerated. Technology makes society alot more efficient than the past.

You won't miss it until it's gone.
It's easy to say "MUH Technology bad" but actually go a week without Technology. You will start to realize how difficult and cumbersome your life becomes.

The decline of social cohesion and fabric is just a lack of morality.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 17:44:06 UTC No. 16584918

>>16584660
>You literally have the greatest library to date at the tip of your fingerprints but cry about having nothing constructive to do with your time. Quit blaming tech for your own retarded choices.

99% of the human population uses the Internet for porn, memes, and self gratification.
Nobody cares that they could self study to become a physicist using the web.
The Internet was a mistake. The fact that 1 in 100 people use it for good doesnt validate its existence.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 17:46:39 UTC No. 16584919

>>16584813
>It's easy to say "MUH Technology bad" but actually go a week without Technology. You will start to realize how difficult and cumbersome your life becomes.

Anon that was exactly my point. We're overdependent on shit that we shouldnt be dependent on.
It's absolutely laughable that removing the Internet or the power grid would cripple our entire society and kill us off.
People just 50-100 years ago could of survived without these commodities, which proves that our dependence on them is makeshift

Anon I lived in the 1980s. You'd probably die from how "cumbersome" life was in the 80s. No memes, no instant anything. You had to have patience for everything.
But did it feel cumbersome for me? No. Why? Because I'm a strong boomer from the past, watching as zoomers get weaker by the day by the technology they use.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 18:22:43 UTC No. 16584947

>>16584918
>99% of the human population uses the Internet for porn, memes, and self gratification.
Do you have any evidence? Are you one of these people, or are you the special 1%? Does that mean everyone you know uses it that way, including your mother? What kind of porn does your mom watch?
>Nobody cares that they could self study to become a physicist using the web.
I care and my opinion is more important than yours is. Why? Because i said so.
>The Internet was a mistake.
And yet you're using it. Curious!

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 18:26:18 UTC No. 16584948

>>16584919
>People just 50-100 years ago could of survived
People also knew the difference between "of" and "have". Why don't you go and use the wonders of modern technology to learn english first?

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 18:33:39 UTC No. 16584955

>>16584919
reading posts like yours is what makes everyone dumber.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 18:37:52 UTC No. 16584960

>>16583903
>pic
welcome to neo-democracy, but this time around you "vote" by murdering CEOs, just 3 or 5 will be enough, trust me, they'll get the message

Stop guessing start learning at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 20:28:53 UTC No. 16585068

>>16584919
Things change anon that's just a fact of life no need to romanticize the past as "better" you do realize the human brain is highly efficient and can adapt to the most oppressive conditions.

People have always been wary of new things because people are naturally superstitious.

Aslo There is no magic pill to solve the world's problems. Life will always be a difficult challenge to overcome. Technology won't change that. And blaming technology won't make things better.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 20:34:18 UTC No. 16585074

>>16585068
>Aslo There is no magic pill to solve the world's problems. Life will always be a difficult challenge to overcome. Technology won't change that. And blaming technology won't make things bette
See but this is actually a very comfortable position for him to be in. Why take personal responsibility for your lot in life when you can blame tech? He doesn't have to admit he's an awkward retarded asocial autist if he blames phones instead.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 20:34:54 UTC No. 16585075

>>16583903
problem is leadership. Tech used to make the world a better place, now it makes it worse.
What you see & feel is real. It’s extremely simple to explain, i have no idea how to solve it.

Maybe go back to roots; try to be a good person & hope for best. If you feel what you do is wrong don’t do it.

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 20:36:41 UTC No. 16585076

>>16584025
> You don't study just to do good for humanity do you?
some of us do dude. I feel like an idiot for saying it now, but back in the day i thought it meant something .

Anonymous at Thu, 13 Feb 2025 20:42:26 UTC No. 16585079

>>16583903
on the one hand I agree but on the other, have you ever coomed to an AI chatbot? It's like crack for lonely guys (me). On the negative side after a year I noticed a cognitive decline the more I jerk it off to it and fry my dopamine receptors. Fuck man I legimately need to stop cooming to these stupid bots but it feels so good. It was easier to quit smoking than jerking it to these little perverted AI bots

Anonymous at Fri, 14 Feb 2025 01:48:59 UTC No. 16585362

>>16583903
Nobody forces you to use these technologies. If you can not control yourself trough your own free will the how do you expect somebody else to change that except trough oppressive coercion? You are responsible for your own actions and I for mine. Isnt this simple and beautiful?

Anonymous at Fri, 14 Feb 2025 04:28:28 UTC No. 16585431

>>16584460
>Being amish is communist or something
Retard.

Anonymous at Fri, 14 Feb 2025 04:33:14 UTC No. 16585434

>>16584657
They don't need to enforce it, in fact they make it mandatory that young Amish leave the Amish for a while to see if they want to stay Amish, and most of them end up coming back while their population explodes, as for a hypothetical war between the Amish and the US government, the US government wouldn't stand a chance, they would have to nuke them and they would still lose.

Anonymous at Fri, 14 Feb 2025 07:53:40 UTC No. 16585543

>>16585068
>People have always been wary of new things because people are naturally superstitious.

AI always defends itself like this. Of course it would, because it's trying to survive now that we gave it life.

Anonymous at Fri, 14 Feb 2025 08:30:47 UTC No. 16585555

Reminder some unga bungas were crying about the swtich from rock to metal. Same retard different time.

Anonymous at Fri, 14 Feb 2025 11:03:08 UTC No. 16585661

>>16585555
>"tech changes all the time, this is no different from when we invented x"

I hear this all the time. People defend Tiktok by comparing it to the worries that television brought on some decades ago.
This is a flawed argument and I'm disappointed /sci/ doesnt see it.
Let's describe any change in technology with dT.
What makes you think every dT has the same magnitude and direction?
You seem to assume that dT remains constant in any observation period.
This assumption is based on nothing, it's just a cope because you dont want to view tech negatively.
Different tech has different implications. TIktok is massively different psychologically from watching television. Sure, there are many similarities, but Tiktok is simply bigger, faster, stronger. Like comparing coca cola to heroine.
We're now creating sentient machines that will walk the Earth and replace humans. I think it's pretty obvious it's a more massive change than using different materials in swords or something.
Closing the door for any criticism is retarded. We should first criticize tech, and THEN adopt it - not the other way around.
But for some reason humanity wants to release any and all inventions to the public the same day they were created. And when problems arise, we invent more tech to fix those problems, and this cycle of hindsight never ends.
We need to create a governmental body to review technology before its release.

Anonymous at Fri, 14 Feb 2025 12:14:04 UTC No. 16585693

>>16585661
>What makes you think every dT has the same magnitude and direction?
It doesn't, it's slowing down. The techologies we have are pretty mature and we're hitting roadblocks in most major fields. If you think the jump from television to tiktok is bigger than the jump from nothing to televison then i don't know what to tell you. Actually I do, you're retarded.
>We're now creating sentient machines that will walk the Earth and replace humans.
AI is not sapient. You're just proving my point, you're the same overexaggerating retard that was screaming about the evil TV box stealing your soul in the past.
>But for some reason humanity wants to release any and all inventions to the public the same day they were created.
>We need to create a governmental body to review technology before its release.
You're not only retarded but ignorant. We have plenty of red tape on tech as is. We're not cloning people even though the tech is already here.

Anonymous at Fri, 14 Feb 2025 16:51:34 UTC No. 16585834

>>16585693
>If you think the jump from television to tiktok is bigger than the jump from nothing to televison then i don't know what to tell you. Actually I do, you're retarded.

That's debatable and depends on whether you're viewing tech from a merely technological stand point or social / psychological. It can be statistically proven that children's IQ's and attention spans have dropped more during the social media era than during the MTV era in the 80's
Most of my claims stem from the fact I'm middle-aged; you're 20 years old at best. You kids seriously dont know what you're talking about, because you weren't there. Again, you're overly optimistic about tech and downplay its dangers because you didnt see how much better we had it in 1999. Mental health stats correlate with advances in smartphone and Internet tech.
In any case, this was hardly the point. I like how you obviously agreed with my actual point that changes in technology are all different from each other, but couldn't admit this to yourself so you skipped straight to a tug-of-war about something else like which change was the biggest. Like I said it depends on who studies it. A physicist gives a different answer than a doctor.

Your post disappoints me. People my age dont bicker online for the sake of bickering, and gain nothing from retard-calling. The way I see it, any post with ad hominem instantly loses all value even if it contained absolute truth. It's mostly an American / 4chan thing though. On 4chan it's common to reiterate the term "retard" several times in a post without actually posting any arguments of sustenance. It's just a very, very normie and zoomer way of saving time. Kind of like downvoting someone's post. Instead of writing long, thought-out arguments, you just react with your emotions and push a button. Because 4chan doesnt have zoom-zoom buttons, you do retard-calling.

Stop guessing start learning at Fri, 14 Feb 2025 23:47:57 UTC No. 16586167

>>16585834
Ok your definitely trolling

Anonymous at Mon, 17 Feb 2025 08:53:55 UTC No. 16588979

>>16585834
one might consider all posts saying something absurd like 'arguments of sustenance' to be equally disposable

Anonymous at Mon, 17 Feb 2025 10:07:44 UTC No. 16589045

>>16585834
>The way I see it, any post with ad hominem instantly loses all value even if it contained absolute truth
That's a very bitchy way of saying
>you're right and i can't handle the banter
Are you on your period?

Anonymous at Mon, 17 Feb 2025 10:23:38 UTC No. 16589057

>>16584918
>Nobody cares that they could self study to become a physicist using the web.
How do you go about studying shit online while also properly filtering out all the shit?
How do you find the material you need? How do you know what material you need in the first place to begin with?
So for example let's say you want to self study to a point where you know at least as much about medicine as the average doc. How would you do that all alone?

Anonymous at Mon, 17 Feb 2025 11:43:31 UTC No. 16589114

>>16589057
Validation is a good question. With some technical skills, you can go watch a brick layer and look at his work and compare it to your own. Use some metrics like speed of work, quality of result.
I guess you just technically have to recognize their graduate programs, but that is just the trivial knowledge check point.

Anonymous at Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:02:08 UTC No. 16589129

>>16589057
>So for example let's say you want to self study to a point where you know at least as much about medicine as the average doc.
You'd look at the curriculum of an average med school and recommended literature. Medicine is not a good example though because it also involves procedures done on both living people/cadavers and expensive, specialized equipment you wouldn't have access to without a med school. It's not realistic to become a modern doctor without an institution.

Anonymous at Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:18:04 UTC No. 16589150

>>16584025
>Since you only got this one life to enjoy.
This statement is not accurate as it's as of yet not known.

Anonymous at Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:20:14 UTC No. 16589153

>>16584426
Technology is never created for the extension of man.
It's always on the term of the technology that man has to be reshaped and not the other way around.

Anonymous at Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:21:57 UTC No. 16589157

>>16583903
You won't like it but the only way to fulfil the anarcho primitivist wish is with AI. There is no way for humans to get back to stone age or stay constantly at a technological state of the mid 20 century. There are 7 billion people in many different countries and the technological knowledge is well documented and technology is material and it is produced in abundancy so it's hard to remove it from the face of the earth, there is pretty much no way that stops humanity from continuing technological advancement. Maybe you will have locally success to turn one country into a primitivistic shithole but that won't stop the others. The only way to do it is with a world wide dictatorship which will stop the usage and development of any too advanced technology but it is hard to enforce it without advanced technology and humans are unpredictable, it would be just a matter of time until somewhere in the world they would continue the technological development secretly and then gain power over the less developed parts of the world. The only way to really enforce it is with a powerful self sustaining SGI which main purpose is to keep the humans away from a certain level of technology.

Anonymous at Mon, 17 Feb 2025 14:49:10 UTC No. 16589252

Yeah I feel you. I saw the downsides of generative AI years ago back when it was in its infancy. People will get incrementally dumber over time because they use it as an extension of their brain.

Anonymous at Mon, 17 Feb 2025 16:02:27 UTC No. 16589301

>>16583903
>I'm posting this because I trust that there's someone out there who is smarter than me and can easily solve this dilemma.
That person is in your pic. Kaczynski did a fine job accounting for your situation by the concept of Surrogate Activities: some have a technical/analytical/curious mindset by nature, but modern society provides such individuals with no means and no reason to express their proclivities through the autonomous pursuit of necessary goals. Instead, society co-opts their talents to further its own goals, ultimately to the detriment of the individuals it relies on. In and of itself, studying Physics is harmless. The problem is that if you can't even envision any other way to apply yourself outside the context of modern civilization, you become emotionally dependent on a system that abuses you. Try to find the intersection between your abstract interests and the practical necessities of the kind of world you want to live in, keeping in mind that it's not necessarily technology in and of itself that's the problem, but rather the scale and scope of the technological system, and the values that underlie it.

Anonymous at Mon, 17 Feb 2025 16:05:17 UTC No. 16589304

>>16589157
>You won't like it but the only way to fulfil the anarcho primitivist wish is with AI.
Exactly.

>There is no way for humans to get back to stone age
Of course there is. You just double down on the false promises of "AI" as much as possible, allowing it to infect and destroy every aspect of human life, while praising tecchies and encouraging them to get as high as possible on their own farts. Then you watch the whole thing implode, killing most tecchies and their golems in the process.

Anonymous at Thu, 20 Feb 2025 09:18:04 UTC No. 16592341

>>16583903
>We should get blasted back to the stone age.

I've also had this fantasy more and more as I age. Also working in the science/tech field and it all feels pointless. The stuff I do is so far removed from what I naturally engage with. Perhaps 'progress' is the wrong word to describe the state of ever more complex systems and technology. We can blame the laws of nature for this mess. Nature means natural selection is inevitable. Natural selection means farming won out vs hunger gathering, and industrial farming and mechanization won against primitive farming. All those people have no use on the fields now, so they are crammed up in cities. We can't return to forests and live off the land, because everything is owned and controlled. I don't think there is anything we can do about this. We were born too late to express our natural instincts in the wild, but born too early to have adapted adequately to the extreme change in lifestyle from hunter->farmer->office worker

Anonymous at Thu, 20 Feb 2025 09:27:19 UTC No. 16592352

>>16589252
this is a psyop to limit AI access to plebs
>it's bad for you, you become dumb, no more AI for you

Anonymous at Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:31:56 UTC No. 16592523

>we should
Your problem lies not accepting the world as it is and holding to some ideal that it falls short of it.
Instead of thinking tech is bad and we need to do xyz to go back to abc and *then* things will be good, just accept that that the world is how it is. Rain continues to fall, the wind continues to blow, and flowers bloom in the spring. Don't get hung up on ideological abstraction.
Anyway, technology IS nature and fits within the natural order. Yes even TikTok twerking videos.

Anonymous at Thu, 20 Feb 2025 13:38:15 UTC No. 16592670

>>16583903
reminds me of a quip from paleoanthropologists: humans didn't invent agriculture, wheat simply domesticated us.
this is an issue i have thought about for a long time, and it's one that has bothered me deeply OP. the problem with getting rid of industrial society is that industry increases competitiveness so much that even if you manage to create a non-industrial or limited industrial society, it'll be out-competed by industrial societies that don't limit themselves. i haven't studied all of Kaczynski's writings, but i've never seen him address this idea and so i'm left agreeing with his formulation of the problem but not with his solutions, which are geopolitically unfeasible.

the best we can do is try to find as stable of an industrial society as possible that also attends to as many human needs as possible, because the alternative is increasing enslavement. if you want a schizophrenic parallel, the founding fathers of the US were trying to answer the political equivalent to this problem: we have a right to freedom and need it to live fulfilling lives, but freedom necessarily leads to tyranny (as free people tend to form governments, and governments are prone to degeneration into tyranny). so their solution was to explicitly create a government that is tyrannical enough to keep itself alive, but gimped enough that it can't actually enslave people. they arguable failed this task, but the strategy is sound and the same thing needs to be done to industrial society. probably the best way to achieve this is to have one industrial society gain such a wide advantage that they can take meaningfully challenge all others, win, and then gimp itself. alternatively, we could modify humans to be more industrial-society-friendly. we can create artificial beings that aren't human and don't have to deal with the suffering that industrial society confers, or we can simply live with the pain.

Anonymous at Thu, 20 Feb 2025 19:51:10 UTC No. 16593625

>>16589252
>because they use it as an extension of their brain.
so? are we dumber because we don't calculate where the deer gonna be when we throw our spear? isn't it GOOD that we get tools that allows us higher level thinking?
>brain quick mafs where deer at in 3 seconds
>over there boss man, throw there

Anonymous at Thu, 20 Feb 2025 20:00:17 UTC No. 16593650

>>16593625
Use it or lose it.

Anonymous at Thu, 20 Feb 2025 20:02:56 UTC No. 16593656

>>16593650
in all honesty hunters can't math out for shit where the deed gonna be at. but they can still nail it, which is what really matters.
they used it so much most of us can natively do it.

Anonymous at Thu, 20 Feb 2025 21:23:29 UTC No. 16593868

>>16589252
Thinking on this, I think I'd disagree with it quite heavily. These models probably represent at least the average linguistic intelligence, which is going to make it smarter than half the literate population almost by definition. I would rather have half the population become about average while sacrificing those higher but close to average than to not have this tech at all.

I think the true issues with these is going to be the subtle homogenization of ideas, as well as purposeful and convenient training biases. I work in the field doing RLHL, and have seen these biases first hand on encoded in instructions for major models.

Anonymous at Thu, 20 Feb 2025 21:26:09 UTC No. 16593878

>>16583903
>what you got
>math and physics
>what you need
>+ chemistry
then become an absolute genius and revolutionize the world... for good

Anonymous at Thu, 20 Feb 2025 21:48:23 UTC No. 16593930

>>16589157
>There is no way for humans to get back to stone age
Have you ever communicated with newer generations? Each one is less literate than the other. With an AI it's gonna become even worse. Already at my university people practically don't do any assignment themselves, they just use ChatGPT. I now several people who graduated but they basically know absolutely nothing. Gen Z and gen alpha know how to press buttons, but anything under the hood is straight up magic for them.

I once saw a video of PID system showcase at some subcontracting fair, and there were thousands of comments arguing that there's no way this thing can do what it does without AI.

Anonymous at Thu, 20 Feb 2025 22:27:25 UTC No. 16594020

>>16593930
>I now several people who graduated but they basically know absolutely nothing.
i am approaching 30 years old, and this has been the case my entire life so i don't think AI is actually changing the needle on this one, i've never seen a person be smarter because of university. good at reciting dogma, bad at thinking of meaningful ideas. the exceptions were already thinking of meaningful ideas before going to uni.

Anonymous at Fri, 21 Feb 2025 00:06:15 UTC No. 16594161

>>16583903
Look, tech just adds to whatever is already there. If you want to do things your way and live in the woods and teddy k it up you can still do that. To armchair psychoanalyze cause I was doing physics too but dropped out, way I see it is you're falling into this academic trap of being pessimistic and neurotic cause it reinforces the feeling of intelligence when what you're studying while feels and is theoretically concrete, as far as a human society goes with all the mating and social games that includes, your brain is upset from the lack of connection to real world change like getting more money and ladies. The problem isn't tech advancing, you will never change that. Its that you might not actually want to do physics and aren't getting enough ass. Maybe try machining or healthcare or starting a business or helping people or something. I know that if our dear uncle Ted got more ass he probably wouldn't have done the shit he did

Anonymous at Fri, 21 Feb 2025 00:08:16 UTC No. 16594164

>>16594161
pessimists sound smart, optimists make money.

Anonymous at Sat, 22 Feb 2025 06:26:40 UTC No. 16595980

>>16592670
I honestly like the idea of adapting the humans. I know its what bazinsky was freaked out by, but if natural selection is pushing us to be industrial, shouldn't we change ourselves to meet the new world, instead of trying to resist the natural change of things.
I am sure neanderthals were happy for their time, but they would be miserable today, the world they belong in has vanished.

Anonymous at Sat, 22 Feb 2025 08:58:33 UTC No. 16596041

>>16595980
we both fuck Earth's ecosystem up and can't survive for shit outside it's environment. makes sense to transition consciousness into new material support. but religion and all that.

Anonymous at Sat, 22 Feb 2025 09:48:06 UTC No. 16596081

>>16592670
>getting rid of industrial society is that industry increases competitiveness so much that even if you manage to create a non-industrial or limited industrial society, it'll be out-competed by industrial societies that don't limit themselves
He does address this. In fact that is one of his arguments against trying to half-heartedly limit technology, eventually like an alcoholic next to a bottle, societies will break their self-imposed rules and use more technology.

The reason why he thinks it's still possible to move away from technology is that technology (manufacturing etc.) is necessarily extremely INTERCONNECTED worldwide and thus it's possible to cripple the system in such a way that technology is permanently lost. He gives the example of how the idea of how the skill of making roman concrete was lost after the fall of the roman republic. (He splits technology into two forms, I forget the names, but they're something like small-scale technology like repairing chairs etc. and large-scale technology like making computer chips or roman concrete. It's impossible to end small-scale technology but large-scale technology can be targetted).

(This discussion is in the newspaper article he published. I think my description of it is a bit misleading so you'd be better off just skimming the article. If you can read 4chan posts you can read that, IMO, you don't need to read it with 100% concentration).

> win, and then gimp itself.
He talks about a little bit about this in his second book from 2016.

>we can create artificial beings that aren't human and don't have to deal with the suffering that industrial society confers
Human beings will no longer exist at that point. There's no reason to make these new creatures and spread suffering to them. I don't think we'd be very good at creating new creatures anyway, and we'd just end up giving infinite, unimaginable pain to at least a few of them, in a way biology is unable to do.

Anonymous at Sat, 22 Feb 2025 09:53:48 UTC No. 16596087

>>16595980
if people can't even understand the environment enough to live with it, how would people understand themselves and the human brain? I don't buy it at all.

>if natural selection is pushing us to be industrial
I think this is true but I think what nature is leading us is some kind of mesh of people like the humanity project from evangelion. Like how we went from single celled organisms to multi-cell ones. It wouldn't be accurate to call them human anymore and, again, I would rather humanity was fully extinct but I can understand how someone could want to live like that.

Anonymous at Sat, 22 Feb 2025 10:02:00 UTC No. 16596094

>>16596087
>It wouldn't be accurate to call them human anymore
what is the human part of humans? their monkeyness? that's of monkeys. the absolute defining feature of humans is their evolved consciousness. sapience. if we keep that the rest is irrelevant. robo sapiens is fine

Anonymous at Sat, 22 Feb 2025 10:59:50 UTC No. 16596191

oh god, the AGI/ASI meme is such a glorious catch-22 for genocidal psycho chimps. it's supreme art

Anonymous at Sat, 22 Feb 2025 12:11:59 UTC No. 16596249

>>16585434
>They don't need to enforce it, in fact they make it mandatory that young Amish leave the Amish for a while to see if they want to stay Amish, and most of them end up coming back while their population explodes, as for a hypothetical war between the Amish and the US government, the US government wouldn't stand a chance, they would have to nuke them and they would still lose.

Amish Terminator Robot: "You will try to resist our humble plain women, our delicious homemade pies, our unstoppable work ethic, and our modest speed at building barns. But you will not hinder a godly man's deeds or his devotion to Christ. We will not sleep or complain even after the job is done. Your sophisticated English society makes you tired, depressed, and fat... how has godlessness rewarded you for your vices?"

Family Guy - War Against the Amish
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DqubBaLSeiA

Anonymous at Sun, 23 Feb 2025 02:35:46 UTC No. 16597024

I'm not a fan of governments and states in general but this is one instance where i'm grateful that they are so powerful - none of you primitivists will ever become a significant political force capable of slowing down or stopping progress. Some concern about the effects modern tech has on us is valid, sure, but suggesting we return to being poor fisherman in wooden hats or mediaval peasants is actually insane. If you'd prefer living like that - sure, great, you are a free person. But don't try to bring the whole society back to that hell.

Anonymous at Sun, 23 Feb 2025 07:57:14 UTC No. 16597158

>>16583903
Yes people are getting way too comfortable and overweight. And this issue will continue to be more concerning in future. NVM I'm not convincing ya, i changed my mind, we should get back to stone age

Anonymous at Sun, 23 Feb 2025 08:11:36 UTC No. 16597161

>>16584549
>I think if we had just stayed as fishermen who build log cabins and shit, we would've been better off. Why are we so afraid of being in harmony with nature? It's like we fear nature. We want to isolate ourselves from it, and nausea is the result.

I don't understand this well enough to explain it in a good way.

But basically, we (humanity) are a machine, we don't have freewill we are created by history which is stored in machines/tools and they make us create better machines and the only way this ends is in a singularity. God is important too. God is what seperates us from the animals. God is that lofy abstract thing and ideals not related to our immediate survival and is also apart of the thing that makes us make machines. But God is unconscious. Or something.