Anonymous at Thu, 3 Nov 2022 22:55:38 UTC No. 123477

>>123474
1. you are complaining about a LONG dead movie star
2. you are doing so in a faggy and inflamotory way for attention
3. it really doesn't matter to this board as this isn't even about sports but whining about a dead celebrity getting more attention then you or some retarded shit

Go cry on /tv/ about how his movies didn't have enough small children to wiggle your worm at or something.
This bullshit doesn't belong here.
Whatever your issue is you need to get over it and fuck off.

Anonymous at Thu, 3 Nov 2022 23:45:35 UTC No. 123484

>>123474

No one here really gives a shit about him as he was an actor not a sportsperson. People think he could fight as he was a legitimately great martial artist, I.e. martial arts aren't just about fighting they have cultural preservation aims, fitness aims, spirituality & philosophy goals, and so forth. Which he excelled in developing and promoting.

I personally am not sure that as intelligent a martial artist as he was, he was a good fighter. Since he didn't actually fight in full contact sports competitively which is essential for pressure testing if you aren't actually fighting for real in pre-gunpowder wars daily.

As we have seen CMA and Kung Fu generally doesn't work irl compared to boxing, wrestling, muay thai, bjj, etc. It just looks cool in movies. However he did heavily crosstrain. His size was fine for his height. Strikers especially are shredded and skinny. Probably even more than he was looking at local Nak Muay and MMA fighters I train alongside.

Anonymous at Fri, 4 Nov 2022 07:22:27 UTC No. 123523

He was the first true Martial Artist. Who are you again?

Anonymous at Fri, 4 Nov 2022 08:36:21 UTC No. 123524

>>123474
same reason why people think papa Elon is smart, because he spent his whole life cultivating that image

Anonymous at Fri, 4 Nov 2022 15:15:52 UTC No. 123550

>>123477
/thread

Anonymous at Fri, 4 Nov 2022 15:37:58 UTC No. 123551

Bruce Lee discussions online are usually terrible. Despite being so famous, people generally don't know much about him and believe all kinds of stupid shit (both positive and negative). A lot of people don't know anything about martial arts or combat sports and just know him from movies, so you'll hear plenty of stupid opinions. Lately though I'm seeing more weird hatred for him like OP than people seriously saying he was "best fighter ever" or anything stupid like that. Unless you're looking at places like Youtube comments maybe.

Bruce Lee was a great martial artist and teacher, made cool influential movies, and was right about many things. He accomplished a lot in his short life. But he was never a competitive fighter or trying to be one. People who aren't into martial arts often don't understand the difference between being a martial artist and being a fighter. Consider John Danaher, or Bruce's student Dan Inosanto, there are plenty of people who are respected as martial artists but not fighters. Bruce sparred a ton and had some minor fights, but that's not the same thing as having a serious career as a fighter. You also have to remember he was active before kickboxing was even a sport in America, and consider what he was doing in that light. So it's stupid that people argue so much about "how good of a fighter was he" rather than talking about the other stuff in his life.

Anonymous at Fri, 4 Nov 2022 15:50:28 UTC No. 123554

>>123484
>>123551
>martial artist not a fighter
No bigger cope in the game

Anonymous at Fri, 4 Nov 2022 20:50:28 UTC No. 123594

>>123554

I do combat sports (boxing, kickboxing, submission wrestling, mma) as I just want to fight and don't care about the other crap.

But martial arts have other aims than just fighting ability. Cultural preservation especially, fitness & health, philosophy & spirituality.

Arts that I personally don't enjoy as they aren't directly about having a good scrap like Judo, Aikido, Shotokan/point karate, Wing Chun, FMA, Tai Chi, Kendo, JJJ/koryu, Gatka, etc; still have a huge amount of value and can co-exist alongside pure combat arts for smashing teeth in and breaking joints.

Anonymous at Fri, 4 Nov 2022 22:33:03 UTC No. 123614

>>123554
Based and correct
>>123594
>hurr durr combat sports aren’t martial arts
What does mma stand for, dipshit?

Also don’t count judo with all that other stupid bullshit you middle of the road opinion having plebeian bitch.

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 03:28:10 UTC No. 123648

>>123614

I didn't say combat sports aren't martial arts. Quite the opposite. I.e. not all martial arts are combat sports that only have the goal of contact fighting ability, even though I prefer fighting focused combat sports.

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 03:59:54 UTC No. 123652

>>123648
You have a bizarrely exclusive definition of combat sport but in any case,
>not all martial arts are combat sports that only have the goal of contact fighting ability
I would argue that any activity where this is not the primary goal is not a martial art. That said, under your definition judo and taekwondo for example are not combat sports despite being in the Olympics since they have goals outside of fighting ability attached to their practice. That seems dumb.

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 04:19:44 UTC No. 123656

>>123551
>>123594
>>123648

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 04:45:51 UTC No. 123657

>>123656
Those aren't the same people, one poster always puts an empty line at the start. Nothing wrong with the first or third post either. Second post is fine too besides some of the examples.

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 05:59:12 UTC No. 123661

>>123657
>>123656

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 06:03:37 UTC No. 123662

>>123661
Cope

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 09:09:57 UTC No. 123668

>>123474
That's funny, the only retards I've seen whenever Bruce Lee comes up are the try hard redditors who scream and cry and stamp their feat if anybody so much as suggests the possibility that Bruce Lee could have defeated an infant in combat. He was undeniably a great athlete and his ideas were innovative in his day. Contrary to popular belief, he did recognize the importance of grappling and ground game to some extent, especially after getting his ass kicked by Gene Lebell. He just died before he got a chance to really explore that avenue more thoroughly. Additionally, he was one of the first martial artists outside of Thailand to take note of Muay Thai. He didn't practice it, but he was at least somewhat familiar with it due to having filmed some movies in Thailand, and he was interested in their techniques. He was also very interested in boxing and was heavily influenced by Muhammad Ali. He thought that westerners were fools to disregard the more effective boxing in favor of Kung Fu dancing. All of this we know from his letters. Keep in mind, he was doing all of this before the internet, in a time when martial arts was a total clusterfuck of bad ideas and misinformation. Could he have been choked out by some judoka if he challenged one, or knocked out by some boxer? Of course. They aren't "mixed martial artists" though. Bruce was trying to be a "mixed martial artist," in a time when that didn't really exist, so he was constantly experimenting. With regard to his actual skills, he probably would have wiped the floor with all of those champion level "point sparring" karate guys of the 60's in his weight class. You can't compare Bruce Lee to MMA fighters of today. Too much has changed.

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 14:59:08 UTC No. 123693

>>123668
Good post, but one nitpick
>Additionally, he was one of the first martial artists outside of Thailand to take note of Muay Thai
This isn't really accurate. You should've wrote in America or the West instead of outside Thailand. It was rare to see in America and Europe, but people were at least superficially aware of Thai boxing throughout the world, especially in Asia. Places in Asia sometimes sent people to fight there, usually getting their asses beat. In Japan, Osamu Noguchi sent a few of Mas Oyama's students to fight there in 1964. After that, he established the first kickboxing sanctioning body in Japan in 1966, inspired by Muay Thai. One of the guys that went to compete, Kenji Kurosaki, started combining it with Kyokushin after his loss, and established the Mejiro Gym for kickboxing in 1969. Kurosaki helped spread his form of Kyokushin with Jon Bluming in the Netherlands starting in the 60s. So the Japanese and the Dutch got a short head start on kickboxing outside of Thailand.

It's true though that Bruce was looking into Muay Thai and trying to incorporate some of its techniques and training (like using thai pads) before most martial artists in America, even in the late 60s before visiting Thailand. But it wasn't easy to find in the country back then, so he could only get so far with it. Jeet Kune Do developed a stronger connection with Muay Thai after Inosanto began training with Chai Sirisute in the late 70s. Now you'll regularly see JKD schools competing in Muay Thai competitions, and Inosanto even became vice-president of the World Thai Boxing Association. Greg Nelson, the MMA coach, is one example of a JKD guy who competed in Muay Thai.

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 15:08:44 UTC No. 123694

>>123693
Basically there was a separate but simultaneous evolution of martial arts going on in different parts of the world. Transitioning from traditional martial arts towards full contact kickboxing and more realistic training in general. Bruce contributed to that evolution in America. Joe Lewis trained with him before becoming the first American kickboxing champion. Here's footage of the first sanctioned American kickboxing match, with Lewis talking about their training together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3yzy-D8eCE

Note that when he says "full-contact" at the start, he means full-contact karate. Some people might be confused by that.

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 15:19:13 UTC No. 123695

>>123668
>That's funny, the only retards I've seen whenever Bruce Lee comes up are the try hard redditors who scream and cry and stamp their feat if anybody so much as suggests the possibility that Bruce Lee could have defeated an infant in combat
Yeah, this is annoying. You can hardly talk about him online now without somebody sperging out after hearing something remotely positive. I get that he's been hugely exaggerated over the years and those responses are just an overreaction to that. But it's still lame.

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 15:59:32 UTC No. 123698

>>123694

Why did full contact karate/kickboxing die in the U.S? Literally just because of MMA/the UFC?

It's weird how Western Kickboxing (mainly American but even K1/Dutch people barely know nowadays) has just fucking disappeared in favour of MMA at a spectator level and Muay Thai at a hobbyist level.

Even though 9/10 of normies still don't understand grappling and complain about wrestling & BJJ in MMA matches.. Yet Western kickboxing as a sport is on life support commercially compared to MMA and Muay Thai which has a huge clinch component is more popular to train.

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 16:00:32 UTC No. 123699

>>123693
>So the Japanese and the Dutch got a short head start on kickboxing outside of Thailand.
I should clarify that despite the earlier exposure to kickboxing in the Netherlands, the sport itself actually took a bit longer to get established there. The first Dutch kickboxing association (NKBB) didn't come about until the late 70s. Jan Plas established the sport there, and even founded his own Mejiro Gym in Amsterdam after training with Kurosaki.

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 16:17:23 UTC No. 123705

>>123698
>Why did full contact karate/kickboxing die in the U.S? Literally just because of MMA/the UFC?
Not entirely sure. There's a variety of reasons you could point at. Poor marketing, too many competing organizations with different rulesets splitting and confusing things, and so on. MMA contributed to the decline, but it was already struggling with popularity before the UFC and never took off all that much with the general public in the first place. Technically it didn't really die though, people just moved on to other forms of kickboxing.

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 18:45:15 UTC No. 123719

>>123698
It wasn't ever popular. PKA as an organization died but the ruleset transfered to WAKO and ISKA. GLORY also has no-low-kick competitions.

Nobody gives a shit about kickboxing or muay thai in the US, except for those competitions which take place in MMA organizations like ONE, or if you're training for MMA. It is sorta popular in Western mainland Europe though(France, Netherlands, Switzerland). Kickboxing has always been promoted really poorly after the mid-70s.

Then you have each style sort of having its own competitions. There's a lot of boxing promotions, but they all follow Queensbury rules. Kyokushin competitions are their own thing and only kyokushin karatekas and their family watch them compete. ISKA point karate is the same. Taekwondo is all about the Olympics. K-1, GLORY, and ONE have audiences in either Europe or Asia.

Anonymous at Sat, 5 Nov 2022 21:13:26 UTC No. 123734

>>123474
It is annoying when you see people question if he could beat Mike Tyson or ask how he would do in the ufc but that is just people who are ignorant it doesn't matter. Even in ufc 1 literally every competitor would have a good chance to beat Bruce. Zane Frasier/Kevin Rossier or the sumo wrestler would probably have been the closest but even then the size difference would have been too much. Gerard, Patrick Smith, Royce, Ken etc would have beat his ass...

>>123523
>He was the first true Martial Artist

lol

Anonymous at Sun, 6 Nov 2022 02:21:21 UTC No. 123766

>>123554
Actual /thread

Anonymous at Sun, 6 Nov 2022 02:35:54 UTC No. 123768

>>123668
His actual sparing videos if they are still up somewhere were extremely amateurish by today's standards. Make of that what you will.
>>123698
It does seem that MMA killed it. I've also noticed that basically every form of kickboxing in the US is marketed as "Muay Thai" nowadays and rolled into the MMA mcdojos, which doesn't help either. Would love to see a flourishing kickboxing scene in the west, or like an MMA alternative that alows everything but guys dry humping each on the ground while kissing

Anonymous at Thu, 10 Nov 2022 03:48:06 UTC No. 124298

He was an incredible western thinker and one of the few worthwhile thinkers from the hippie era, westoids should stop throwing out the baby with the bathwater