🧵 The best martial art
Anonymous at Tue, 6 Dec 2022 00:03:00 UTC No. 128084
I think muay thai is the best because it teaches you how to strike with almost all striking surfaces but you should also train bjj to learn what to do when you are on the ground.
...or maybe should I not complicate this and just go to an mma training?
Anonymous at Tue, 6 Dec 2022 00:09:40 UTC No. 128086
judo
Anonymous at Tue, 6 Dec 2022 04:09:45 UTC No. 128106
>>128084
It’s judo. It was always judo
Anonymous at Tue, 6 Dec 2022 04:18:57 UTC No. 128111
Unironically Judo. One thing to punch someone, a whole another to throw someone.
Anonymous at Tue, 6 Dec 2022 07:04:04 UTC No. 128124
>>128086
>>128106
>>128111
Is this much different than aikido? I know someone who had been doing aikido for years and then just got punched and knocked out by one guy in the nightclub. I also know someone who was doing aikido, krav maga and muay thai and says aikido is the worst and muay thai is the best.
Anonymous at Tue, 6 Dec 2022 07:55:13 UTC No. 128126
>>128124
>Is this much different than aikido?
Extremely.
> I also know someone who was doing aikido, krav maga and muay thai
Don’t hang out with people stupid enough to do aikido and Krav Maga.
Anonymous at Tue, 6 Dec 2022 10:44:55 UTC No. 128133
>>128124
you literaly just toss them to the ground and stomp their face,
Anonymous at Tue, 6 Dec 2022 14:20:56 UTC No. 128139
>>128084
BJJ trained with a understanding of the Gracie Combative courses is still the best. Same sized Judo practitioner isn't beating it imo. Like you could get off a throw and knock them out but you'll probably just end up on the ground and get beat up.
Anonymous at Tue, 6 Dec 2022 18:51:01 UTC No. 128170
There is no best martial art because they usually only specialize in 1 or 2 out of the 3 key areas:
- Striking
- Fighting in the clinch
- Submission Grappling
Also it depends on your body type and size.
Ideally you want a solid striking style like Boxing, Muay Thai, Kyokushin or its offshoots, Savate, or Sanda. Other SE Asian styles like Lethwei, Pradal Serey, Tomoi, Muay Lao are also good ones to pursue if you can find them.
Then you want a good wrestling base: Greco-Roman, Freestyle, US Collegiate, Judo, Sombo, Sumo, Bokh, Pehlwani, or whatever you can find that does throws, trips, & takedowns.
Lastly you need to be versed on how to fight on the ground with submissions AND pins. Pins are seriously overlooked and are incredibly useful in a fight. So Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, Sombo, Catch Wrestling, Luta Livre, and anything else that helps you give positional dominance, transitional control, and slap a joint-lock or choke.
I myself do Boxing and Judo because they're cheap as fuck and they complement each other well. All I need is Muay Thai to learn shin conditioning so I can low kick, knee, elbow, and how to do neck-wrestling.
Anonymous at Tue, 6 Dec 2022 19:29:28 UTC No. 128174
>>128124
90% of aikido require the opponent to work with you a lot. The exception being some of the wrist locks they teach.
Anonymous at Tue, 6 Dec 2022 21:54:11 UTC No. 128188
>>128084
>>128124
Judo is enough to avoid getting knocked out or thrown around, then get a chance to escape
🗑️ Anonymous at Tue, 6 Dec 2022 22:23:04 UTC No. 128193
>>128139
Gracie combatives is just shitty striking. You're best of cross-training separate arts that specialise in each part of a fight (i.e. striking, stand up grappling, takedown, ground game).
E.g. boxing (striking), Muay Thai (striking plus stand up grappling), wrestling (takedowns), BJJ (ground game).
Anonymous at Tue, 6 Dec 2022 22:25:07 UTC No. 128194
>>128170
This. Great post. Someone who actually understand combat.
Anonymous at Tue, 6 Dec 2022 22:55:03 UTC No. 128196
>>128124
Everyone who responded to you is correct about aikido being shit but I want to point out also that there’s no martial art that makes you impervious to getting knocked out by a sucker punch. Don’t go to shithole night clubs I’m general if you’re concerned about that.
Anonymous at Wed, 7 Dec 2022 00:40:53 UTC No. 128202
>>128170
>Ideally you want a solid striking style
gun
>Then you want a good wrestling base
stiletto
>
Lastly you need to be versed on how to fight on the ground with submissions AND pins
stileto
your bjj submission will do jak shit when they start to stab you
Anonymous at Wed, 7 Dec 2022 20:51:56 UTC No. 128307
>>128084
ideally I think it's best to start with one at a time if you've never done any martial arts. I think you should muay thai for a few months, and then when you feel accustomed to your new routine, start attending some bjj classes. (vice versa works too). After about a year or two you could get into MMA if you want
Anonymous at Wed, 7 Dec 2022 20:56:17 UTC No. 128309
>>128124
>aikido
There is a reason that the founder of Aikido originally only allowed students who already were trained by another art to start training with him. Todays schools are garbage, they are led by guys who never trained real fighting. The founder though... look up some old videos of him, its crazy. he looks like he is moving like an old grandpa, but he is throwing his students like they were toys. And the crazy part is you can see they try to resist. Do no "I have to fly because it is sensai who touched me" bullshit.
At best Aikido is a more refined Judo with hellish joint locks, but normally you get garbage mc dojo stuff.
Anonymous at Thu, 8 Dec 2022 00:56:35 UTC No. 128336
>>128084
Im saying this as a muay thai guy.
Grappling cant be beaten. Judo, wrestling, and jiu-jitsu simply cant be beaten.
Anonymous at Thu, 8 Dec 2022 01:20:32 UTC No. 128338
>>128336
Yeah but cut kicks to someone who doesn't know how to check them can help. Of course all it takes is for them is to grab a hold of you and take you down to the ground. It's what Cro Cop had to do against Yoshida to make him quit.
Anonymous at Thu, 8 Dec 2022 02:07:28 UTC No. 128350
>>128086
>>128106
>>128111
>Skinny judolet challenges me
>weak and scrawny due to low intensity low duration
>Thinks he will beat me due to his "superior speed" and flashy throws
>Squat slightly in freestyle wresting pose I learned in Uni (could have gone pro if I hadn't joined the navy). thighs MASSIVE due to high intensity training
>Judokek shits his pants because he doesnt know how to deal with someone with a center of balance slightly lower then his own.
>I give his torso a hug, don't even go for a single or double 'cause feeling nice
>Judokas pockets start exploding spaghetti since he's not use to intimate contact closer then half arms length.
>My hustles on point, get around him to his back so as to dispatch him by honorable suplex
>"Oh no the Hanawa ochinchin!" The Judoka mewls, refusing to speak in plain American Chicago 12 pnt font.
>A full excelsior movement reduces my opponent to ash as his skull disintegrates against the mat.
>I stand at attention towards the pile of ash and give it a salute for its brave (though misplaced) confidence.
Anonymous at Thu, 8 Dec 2022 05:37:41 UTC No. 128370
Muay Thai is the most deadmliest of all the marital arts. From far and wide, extremely few have ever challenged the Thai boxers and lived to tell the tell. Muay Thai uses all eight points on the body. Most striking arts use just two or three and a half at most. The success of Muay Thai in all martial arts brands and international world warrior tournaments speaks for itself.
There is no bullshit in Muay Thai fights. Fighters train day and night slamming their knees and shins into banana trees over one million times until they are living weapons with bones that have become like folded iron due o the Wolf Effect. Their elbows easily slice through car hulls like blowtorches.
In a real battle of Nak Muay, at least one fighter dies. Sometimes both die. Sometimes the audience dies. Known side effects of spectating Muay Thai besides death include cardiac arrest, impaired vision, and erectile dysfunction.
Before every match the respect dance loosens hips and shoulders to throw vaporizing strikes but bullshido McDojo arts like Pankration do not do a respect dance so they can't really kill lions.
I believe that somebody who argues on the internet about Muay Thai for 6 months will destroy somebody who argues on the internet about karate for 6 years.
Anonymous at Thu, 8 Dec 2022 14:06:49 UTC No. 128389
>>128336
Same, I got humbled when I started grappling after years of muay thai.
>>128338
If you manage to keep distance and don't get caught in the first 3-4 kicks then yeah, but you will get caught. Grapplers train single leg takedowns all the time, kicking them makes their job easier.
I'm talking hobbyist vs hobbyist scenarios here, no point in comparing average joes to professional mma fighters who are simply on a league of their own.
Anonymous at Fri, 9 Dec 2022 04:57:18 UTC No. 128521
>>128084
If I had to pick one, I'd pick BJJ.
If I could pick two, I'd pick BJJ and boxing.
If I could pick three, I'd pick BJJ, boxing, and Judo.
If I could pick four, I'd pick BJJ, boxing, Judo, and Muay Thai.
I don't think you need anything else if you study all four.
Anonymous at Fri, 9 Dec 2022 05:19:40 UTC No. 128524
>>128521
>I'd pick the lesser judo over judo
Anonymous at Fri, 9 Dec 2022 05:25:09 UTC No. 128525
>>128524
One day, I hope Judo brings back leg attacks in competition and allows more time and attack variation in newaza. It doesn't have to be exactly like BJJ, but watching judo footage from the 1930s to 1980s makes me wish it was a perfect blend of stand-up and matwork again.
Anonymous at Sat, 10 Dec 2022 17:24:40 UTC No. 128679
>>128524
The unfortunate reality is that many judoka have to take BJJ or something adjacent to repair what's been amputated from their art. A lot of judo clubs don't even bother with banned techniques or kata for grading anymore. It's all Olympics all the time.
Anonymous at Sat, 10 Dec 2022 17:32:58 UTC No. 128682
>>128679
>A lot of judo clubs don't even bother with banned techniques or kata for grading anymore
You literally can’t be promoted to/as a black belt without doing kata at least under US organizations so I don’t know why you think no one does kata.
Yes though most of the time is spent training for the sport we compete in.
Anonymous at Sat, 10 Dec 2022 17:39:47 UTC No. 128683
>>128679
The same is true of BJJ. The lack of takedowns and pulling guard means my BJJ/MMA school has to run a Judo class and a wrestling class if just once a week for each & insist people take one of these. Even then people skip it and the BJJ coach has to get people drilling Judo sweeps in BJJ class so they can do at least one takedown..
Really there needs to be a unified Gi comp using something like the ADCC rules to repair all the Gi jujutsu based arts and reunify them.
Anonymous at Sat, 10 Dec 2022 18:47:14 UTC No. 128697
>>128682
They may as well not do it because nobody gives a shit. It's memorize and dump and then back to helping the IJF destroy judo.
Anonymous at Sat, 10 Dec 2022 21:01:07 UTC No. 128711
>>128697
I’m not a fan of the IJF’s constant rule changes either but “destroying judo” is a bit dramatic. The leg grab rule isn’t that old and there’s a good chance it will be changed back in the future. Hell, plenty of us have been training long enough to have competed when it didn’t exist.
Anonymous at Mon, 12 Dec 2022 20:39:46 UTC No. 128882
>>128084
Thats basically what MMA is nowadays.
Anonymous at Mon, 12 Dec 2022 23:26:39 UTC No. 128906
>>128683
The IJF has been toying around with the idea of a Newaza only tournament. They've been cultivating strong ties with FIAS, the international governing body for sambo since they're sister arts.
I think this maybe the closest thing you're looking for. Anyone from Judo, BJJ, or Sambo can compete so long as they wear a gi and obey the rules. It's basically the inverse of IBJJF rules with IJF and FIAS techniques:
Takedowns & sweeps are 4 points
Guard pass is 3 points
Mount, Back Mount,Back control is 2 points
Pins have to be held for 30 seconds. You can have them in side control while the opponent is on their back (not necessarily with the shoulders touching the mat) and no part of the holder must be under the control of the person being held (i.e. no entangled legs). When the pin starts, the referee announces "osaekomi" and the clock is started to time the duration of the hold.
No neck cranks at all. Got to think of safety. Same goes for spine-locks (especially Twister) or wrist/finger locks. No kani-basami at all.. All armlocks and chokes allowed (Omoplata, Gogoplata, etc.). Only straight leglocks no twisted ones.
There is total victory for tossing someone to the ground on their back. Once on the mat, you do groundfighting. One of you has to be submitted or pinned within the time limits. There must be continuous defense or offense, no stalling. Points are scored based on the criteria I've noted above for a decision win. You are permitted to grab the legs so Fireman's Carry is all good.
Anonymous at Tue, 13 Dec 2022 01:38:03 UTC No. 128919
>>128170
no one ever wants to talk about sombo. the joint locks they train in sombo r freakin ridiculous.
Anonymous at Tue, 13 Dec 2022 16:05:33 UTC No. 128970
>>128919
Because unless you live in a region with a lot of Russians, it's hard to find outside of Eastern Europe.
Sombo is basically old school Judo mixed with Catch and other folk wrestling styles from the former Soviet Union. They kept all of Judo's leglocks and added in Catch's too. Don't like how Sport Sombo doesn't allow chokes, but Judo and Sombo were cross-trained a lot by Russians.
Anonymous at Tue, 13 Dec 2022 17:05:38 UTC No. 128976
>>128919
Apart from Dagestanis who wrestle as soon as they can walk, Sambo dudes seem to get rocked by BJJ dudes.
Anonymous at Tue, 13 Dec 2022 21:12:30 UTC No. 129039
>>128524
>picks the most relivent art for the intent
wouldnt that make judo the lesser BJJ?
Anonymous at Tue, 13 Dec 2022 21:34:38 UTC No. 129045
There was a Judo vs BJJ match and Judo won.
Anonymous at Wed, 14 Dec 2022 15:54:01 UTC No. 129098
>>129045
There have been 40 years of mixed-style competition. There is an entire sport with a prestigious competition based around multiple grappling styles competing against each other.
You will have to be more specific about which one match out of 2 entire sports over 40 years that have regularly had Judokas vs BJJ guys?
Anonymous at Wed, 14 Dec 2022 16:27:44 UTC No. 129102
>>129098
Not him, but everyone knows about kimura vs helio, even if the Gracie’s like to pretend getting your arm snapped is actually victory lol.
There’s also this match https://youtu.be/9pwMnKNNuDM
Yoshida puts Royce to sleep but then after the ref calls the match Royce tries to sucker punch yoshida and then later cries to have his loss changed to a no contest because “I wasn’t really asleep.”
Then after talking an enormous amount for of shit Royce challenges yoshida to a rematch but with a shit ton of extra rules including stand ups after going to the ground for too long, a preselected ref by the Gracie’s, and no judges decision meaning if time runs out it’s a draw. Yoshida accepts these retarded rules and fights anyways and shocker it ends in a draw after a bunch of stalling.
So yeah, judo has won against bjj if you count winning fights as winning. Bjj won if you count getting your shit snapped and crying to the authorities as winning.
Anonymous at Wed, 14 Dec 2022 16:37:54 UTC No. 129104
>>128084
What
Anonymous at Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:42:05 UTC No. 129109
>>129102
To be fair, Yoshida should've just held Royce in that choke until he had completely passed out. You never let any of these Gracies a chance of mercy because they'll be quick to twist things around.
I respect the Royce Gracie who had the guts to showcase BJJ in the early UFCs, not this whining punk or the lying sack of shit who took steroids in his rematch with Sakuraba.
There's probably a 50/50 record between BJJ and Judo in all sorts of challenge matches, dojo stormings, Vale Tudo, as well as sanctioned MMA and submission grappling matches. I don't practice BJJ (wrestling and judo here), but I always had respect and admiration for how it trains and that it popularized grappling as a legitimate fighting art to the masses. And I'm far from anti-Gracie when I have nothing but the upmost respect for legends like the late Rolls Gracie Sr. and his half-brother Carlson Gracie Sr. who developed BJJ immeasurably.
Anonymous at Wed, 14 Dec 2022 18:05:56 UTC No. 129111
>>129102
>>129109
Absolutely Judo has won a handful of times. But in the actual sport that is designed to test grappling styles vs each other BJJ dominates totally.
Though in practice I think you need to cross-train Judo and BJJ. Since Judo is lacking in ground game and BJJ is lacking in takedowns and standing submissions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADCC_
Anonymous at Wed, 14 Dec 2022 19:04:39 UTC No. 129113
>>129111
Because people who are good at judo and wrestling go to the Olympics you retard. Your dealing with a skewed talent pool.
>>129109
Irl I don’t disrespect bjj guys in general but this is 4chan which means everything has to be a complete shot show promoting the most insane, extreme and/or retarded takes possible. That said even irl too many people drink Gracie koolaid
Anonymous at Wed, 14 Dec 2022 19:42:04 UTC No. 129120
>>129113
The problem with these Gracies is that they blatantly lie and spin their propaganda as well as their meat-headed rage at challenging anyone who disagreed with them to fight. Their nuthuggers are just as bad.
When you read the history of the original 5 Brothers, you realize Carlos Sr. and Helio were real assholes. I have a lot of respect for George Gracie; he was the real fighter of the family and cross-trained in Catch.
Anonymous at Wed, 14 Dec 2022 19:42:39 UTC No. 129121
>>129113
> Because people who are good at judo and wrestling go to the Olympics you retard. Your dealing with a skewed talent pool.
dont have to make excuses you retard. its a function of the very nature of a sport. the style that spends more time on the ground will manifestly preform better there. judo, bjj, hell, wrestling will preform better in the engagement where they particularly specialize their actions.
Its simply a function of specialization. given nothing else, the person who splits their time between throws and groundwork will be less competent at groundwork then the ground specialist. and since grappling by submission largely ends by groundwork, it just stands to reason. I dont doubt that a bout where “first on your back looses” would be dominated by wrestling and judo. They are focused more in the transition of standing to ground.
Anonymous at Wed, 14 Dec 2022 19:45:52 UTC No. 129122
>>129121
So is ADCC a competition thats tests other grappling styles against each other and see what’s best or is it designed advantageously towards bjj? Pick one you dumbass it can’t be both.
Anonymous at Wed, 14 Dec 2022 19:49:26 UTC No. 129123
>>129122
im not the other guy, im just pointing out the nature of martial arts in general. didnt read his wiki article.
Anonymous at Thu, 15 Dec 2022 08:20:14 UTC No. 129183
>>129111
>But in the actual sport that is designed to test grappling styles vs each other
Is that what we’re pretending ADCC is now?
Anonymous at Fri, 16 Dec 2022 10:12:17 UTC No. 129308
>>129113
>>129183
Yeah good point, the fact throws and pins aren't rewarded equally to submissions skews ADCC to be favourable to BJJ.
But I would argue it's a pointless argument. It's good to have arts that specialise. You simply cross-train a takedown art with a ground game art.
IJF Judo + Kosen Judo. IJF Judo + BJJ. Freestyle Wrestling + BJJ. IJF Judo + Catch Wrestling. Sambo + BJJ. etc
Add a full-contact striking art like boxing, kickboxing, Muay Thai, or Kyokushin Karate and you're golden.
Anonymous at Fri, 16 Dec 2022 10:20:55 UTC No. 129310
>>128084
just do mma, you have to be retarded to think a pursit would beat an mma guy
Anonymous at Fri, 16 Dec 2022 12:14:23 UTC No. 129318
>>128350
Unironically this
>Lived in Asian country for 2 years where people go to school at sports academies in their childhood to do judo as a main part of their education.
>Pick up BJJ/MMA while I'm there with rugby background and very basic knowledge of how to shoot a double leg.
>From day 1 judo throws not a problem unless wearing a gi, and even in gi not an unsolvable problem most of the time.
>Shitty double leg and single leg takedowns working on elite judo guys.
>After a few weeks judo guys learn to stop standing up straight and start using some degree of wrestling in combination with judo, and become much more effective grapplers.
I don't know why people love judo on its own so much on this board. I think learning how to throw an uchi mata is great, getting timing down for foot sweeps is great, if you want to do gi stuff, cross collar chokes are great. But its just so limited in its scope and leaves so many things unaddressed. There's just such a small window of tools being trained compared to somebody who takes nogi BJJ seriously, where you're gonna train the most basic and effective wrestling, judo throws, foot sweeps, and then more extensively ground work. And as for the judo vs. wrestling piece, its got the same issue as muay thai vs. wrestling. Judo and muay thai guys are tough as shit, but if you're main posture involved standing straight up, wrestling take downs are gonna be really hard to stop, even with a good sprawl. MMA striking is its own art that should be trained as such. Same can be said for MMA grappling.
Anonymous at Fri, 16 Dec 2022 23:27:54 UTC No. 129432
>>128086
>>128106
>>128111
Judo is really good for transitions in MMA
Anonymous at Sat, 17 Dec 2022 00:26:52 UTC No. 129445
>>129318
Judo has always been giving respect since its inception as it faced Jujutsu, Sumo, Catch Wrestling and other styles. Many if not most self defense styles and CQC military arts take influence from Judo.
I don't think Judo is nuthugged because it does have its drawbacks like not having enough time and development to do matwork and submissions. Being reliant on clothing for its grips and takedowns. Or updating itself to deal with modern striking. Or the fact that it's atemi-waza is never practiced outside of kata sessions.
No other art is going to be 100% perfect. But Judo is damn near at 70% because as you mentioned, it toughens people from ukemi and it has throws and groundwork to give it an advantage in a brawl. If someone fused Judo, Sambo and BJJ in a no-gi format, it would be the ultimate grappling style.
Anonymous at Sat, 17 Dec 2022 01:55:48 UTC No. 129462
>>128084
I found a gym with separate classes for boxing, muay thai and bjj at an unbeatable price.
I'm a medical doctor at a 3rd world country so my schedule is shit.
I think I'll be able to squish 3 random training days per week.
Should I always train those three to maximize my spending or should I focus on bjj and rotate between muay thai and box?
I don't want to overtrain and shit all over my aging body.
Anonymous at Sat, 17 Dec 2022 02:03:10 UTC No. 129464
>>129462
If I were in your position, I would do BJJ twice a week, pick either boxing or muay thai depending on which one you like more for your 3rd day, and then shadow box 5-10 minutes every day on your own time. But if you end up hating BJJ, then just do whatever you enjoy most. As somebody who also has a busy work schedule, you'll probably just end up showing up to whatever classes you can make it to, which is also perfectly fine.
Anonymous at Sat, 17 Dec 2022 02:06:24 UTC No. 129465
>>129464
>As somebody who also has a busy work schedule, you'll probably just end up showing up to whatever classes you can make it to, which is also perfectly fine.
Thanks, it'll probably end this way.
Anonymous at Sat, 17 Dec 2022 02:24:58 UTC No. 129470
>>128906
source for this?
sounds extremely cool but also wishful thinking
Anonymous at Sat, 17 Dec 2022 03:07:34 UTC No. 129480
>>129464
> As somebody who also has a busy work schedule, you'll probably just end up showing up to whatever classes you can make it to, which is also perfectly fine
Despite what LARPers who pretend to be doing pro fighter regimens all year round on /xs/ say, this is how most adults actually do martial arts.
Anonymous at Sat, 17 Dec 2022 06:45:05 UTC No. 129504
>>128084
You only need boxing and stand up grappling.
>Fights usually start in punching distance
>If this doesn't result in a fight ender, it goes to clinching
>Ground fighting is usually not needed because when someone hits the concrete it's over anyway
If you do MMA, you won't be able to use half of what you learn in most real fights.
Anonymous at Sat, 17 Dec 2022 06:46:28 UTC No. 129505
>>129462
Find what you are most talented for and concentrate on that. No reason to do mostly BJJ when you're a natural puncher.
Anonymous at Wed, 28 Dec 2022 20:48:06 UTC No. 130773
>>128084
the best martial art is the one you are actually practicing not the one you never tried before.
Anonymous at Wed, 28 Dec 2022 23:35:55 UTC No. 130782
>>128170
Sanda is not an offshoot of either Boxing, Muay Thai or Kyokushin. It os merely the sportification of kung -fu techniques. Other than that, great post - cross-training is always the answer.
Anonymous at Sat, 31 Dec 2022 23:02:26 UTC No. 131061
>>128309
The founder of aikido trained in daito-ryu aikijujutsu, which involves striking and more direct/offensive movements.
Anonymous at Tue, 3 Jan 2023 15:20:30 UTC No. 131307
>>128084
Karate, Kick-boxing and MMA
Anonymous at Tue, 3 Jan 2023 15:23:33 UTC No. 131308
>>131066
*Kicks the pipe bomb back to you*
Anonymous at Tue, 3 Jan 2023 16:35:33 UTC No. 131325
>>128084
So are you talking strictly combat sports? Because when I think best "martial art," it has to include weapons training.
>>128202
This guy gets it. I get that most people, even those who aren't larping and really have taken some kind of weapons training, will likely never actually use it, but it's a martial art. Using a gun, using a knife, these are martial arts. Even the most seasoned professional fighter is in the danger zone up against a totally untrained thug with a gun or machete, how much more so when the one wielding the weapon has had any formal instruction at all.
Anonymous at Tue, 3 Jan 2023 19:29:28 UTC No. 131333
>>128336
You know how to turn jujitsu black belt into brown? Punch him in his face. And what to do to turn brown belt into a purple belt? Punch him agan!
Anonymous at Tue, 3 Jan 2023 22:14:02 UTC No. 131357
>>131333
Really hard to do this when mounted and being punched but thanks for the advice
Anonymous at Thu, 5 Jan 2023 05:44:40 UTC No. 131532
>>128370
KINO UNDERRATED ASF SIR
Anonymous at Thu, 5 Jan 2023 12:43:35 UTC No. 131549
>>131325
>when the one wielding the weapon has had any formal instruction at all.
Where does someone get formal training on how to use a knife or machete? Not trying to poke fun, this is a serious question.
Anonymous at Thu, 5 Jan 2023 16:13:32 UTC No. 131563
>>131549
This is where traditional martial arts still have a little practical use. You have self-defense & paramilitary courses, which most of the time seemed to utilize silicone/plastic knives or foam bats, fake guns too. Those programs invariably had tons of heavily choreographed drills for shit like wildly impractical disarms or scenarios to work through. Stuff like you would see in poorly taught Krav-Maga classes. Stuff that you know does not fucking working. So many of those janky blade & gun disarms have been exposed for the bullshido they are, just more fantasy bullshit popularized by Hollywood. I digress.
>Arnis - Eskrima - Kali - Silat
When it comes to fighting with a blade & sticks ranging in length from small pocketknife to a machete or cane, this is where I look.
Anonymous at Thu, 5 Jan 2023 17:35:24 UTC No. 131574
>>128524
this, just do boxing and greco and you will mog 90% of the global population, OP.
Anonymous at Thu, 5 Jan 2023 18:22:32 UTC No. 131579
>>131574
Freestyle>greco
Anonymous at Thu, 5 Jan 2023 18:29:45 UTC No. 131580
>>131532
ombliguiatory reddit barf. 5 thumbs down
Anonymous at Thu, 5 Jan 2023 19:16:55 UTC No. 131592
>>131579
>Gaystyle
>better than Greco
no
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Jan 2023 04:15:09 UTC No. 131649
>>129318
A good nuanced take. each endeavor has particular focuses that they excel in that is reinforced by their rulesets and methodologies. Ive noticed the very same thing when crosstraining (did bjj, wresting, boxing, and a bit of judo). Often times in casual grappling, id be able to pretty easily get a one up on judokas pretty regularly, until, like you said, they started adopting the more freestyle stance as well and getting a better feel for the particular explosiveness and engagements of most wrestling schools of thought with "shoots" from out of distance (not that judo isn't explosive, but its often in a different sort of way). Id be remised to not mention judos excellence in training more standing footwork and sweeps and technicalities
>>129445
>If someone fused Judo, Sambo and BJJ in a no-gi format, it would be the ultimate grappling style.
Isnt that kinda defeating the purpose of going judo to begin with? since what makes it particularly judo as opposed to any other grappling art is the gi. If you are going by a non gi format, it makes sense to practice a non gi art that focuses more on clothless fighting at its core.
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Jan 2023 23:33:28 UTC No. 131746
Which martial art will help me get in shape? I already lift but not enough to be considered anything extraordinary. I also wonder if martial arts are a substitute for lifting or if they have to coexist.
Anonymous at Sat, 7 Jan 2023 02:21:42 UTC No. 131769
>>129308
>Yeah good point, the fact throws and pins aren't rewarded equally to submissions skews ADCC to be favourable to BJJ.
Because submissions actually ends fights, pins and throws don't.
Making a ippon or pin a winning condition would be as retarded as making a sweep or guardpass a winning condition.
Anonymous at Fri, 13 Jan 2023 12:23:11 UTC No. 132261
>>131769
>Because submissions actually ends fights, pins and throws don't.
>Making a ippon or pin a winning condition would be as retarded as making a sweep or guardpass a winning condition.
Yeah, and a mount and back mount do not finish fights either by themselves, and are worth points in BJJ.
Everything is easier to understand when you remember that in a "real fight" being mounted on means you are getting punched in the face. Same thing for a pin or a throw. A pin (of course, not every pins) means I could have been kneeing your in the head. A throw means you would be taking actual damage outside of a soft flooring.
Ippon exists because somewhere along the line people decided that falling backwards was a bad thing because centuries ago it would means death to someone on armor that, by that point, would be an easy picking. It translated to modern terms. Of course, many "ippons" end up putting someone in a bad position even if you consider a fight in cement flooring, but it was just how the ruleset works.
Anonymous at Fri, 13 Jan 2023 17:27:50 UTC No. 132296
>>131746
Boxing or Muay Thai because conditioning is a must. You will burn so many calories.
Anonymous at Fri, 13 Jan 2023 17:45:49 UTC No. 132298
>>131769
> Because submissions actually ends fights, pins and throws don't.
lol, lmao even.
https://youtu.be/4mhv5eLT4nw
Anonymous at Fri, 13 Jan 2023 18:42:25 UTC No. 132311
>>131769
>Because submissions actually win matches
FTFY... Just saying, remember it's a controlled environment, with rules, on a soft floor.
Anonymous at Fri, 13 Jan 2023 18:56:43 UTC No. 132312
>>131769
I'm all into submission grappling but hip tossing a dude on pavement or concrete is going to end REALLY bad.
>>132298
>>132311
I never understood this autism about MUH STAND-UP or NO! IT'S ALL ABOUT SUBMISSIONS when anyone with half a brain should know that grappling requires both throws/takedowns with groundwork. You can obviously have your bias in favor of being a guy that prefers to slam a dude hard on the ground or jockeying for a joint-lock/choke, but being 1 dimensional is retarded.
Anonymous at Sat, 14 Jan 2023 17:40:57 UTC No. 132393
LOL AT YOU MUAY THAI FAGS
Literally all you need to beat 99 percent of the planet is strength and wrestling. Oh you try to kick me? Slam you on your head. Oh you gonna judo toss me? We will both be on the ground then your fucked.
I am a boxing fan and practitioner first and foremost and if you have ever done any grappling you know that a good wrestler is next to impossible.
Anyway op yeah just go do mma
Anonymous at Sat, 14 Jan 2023 17:42:00 UTC No. 132394
>>132393
I want to beat the 1% too.
Anonymous at Sat, 14 Jan 2023 17:43:35 UTC No. 132395
>>132394
Then you better get really good at everything and do steroids and grow to be 6 foot 8
Anonymous at Sat, 14 Jan 2023 19:40:52 UTC No. 132406
>>132312
I get what you're saying but go fuck yourself for being so aggro. I was simply pointing out that submissions go better in sports because of the environment that supports them.
Anonymous at Sun, 15 Jan 2023 17:27:13 UTC No. 132457
>>129504
>If you do MMA, you won't be able to use half of what you learn in most real fights.
This is applied to all martial arts, except MMA. Every martial art has plenty of bullshit incorporated on it that works well under its training and sparring ruleset but is a risk to do it live.
Anonymous at Sun, 15 Jan 2023 19:59:25 UTC No. 132461
>>128086
Sambo>Judo>Wrestling>BJJ> everything else
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Jan 2023 03:31:15 UTC No. 132492
>>129318
>I don't know why people love judo on its own so much on this board.
Although I only go here and >reddit, it seems like Judo communities have some weird complex I usually see in like Karate or even TKD. I'll see boxing guys make self-deprecating jokes about nobody touching their legs or BJJ guys make fun of themselves pulling guard as obvious shortcomings, but every time you see someone Karate or Judo post it's all "no we're the best sport and have no shortcomings", which is hilarious considering their ground defence amounts to "roll over and lie prone on my stomach until the referee stands me up".
I do currently teach BJJ and train Judo, Muay Thai and MMA, and have competed in boxing, kickboxing, kyokushin karate and freestyle wrestling in the past, and every art I've done has useful things as well as plenty of useless habits as well. I know BJJ's downsides, which is why I incorporate at least one class of takedowns a fortnight in BJJ and use a very top position and hold top position style to try and remedy that, though I do know how to invert and play open guards and will teach them despite me not thinking they're as applicable to self-defence (which I do mention when I teach them). But you'll hardly ever hear a Judo guy joke that their bottom-game style is "plank on my stomach until the referee breaks up the fight", despite that being what I come up against every time I compete.
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:14:02 UTC No. 132529
>>132492
To be fair, it's the rule set that has most judo players turtle. And most serious judo practicioners do it for the World Championships and Olympics.
It's only the old school dojos that try to devote a couple hours each week on newaza where you'll get sweeps and set-ups from the bottom. Most US judo dojos are geared to IJF rules. In Japan, Brazil, the Netherlands, France, Russia is where you're gonna see dojos where you have serious newaza.
Anonymous at Sun, 22 Jan 2023 14:18:59 UTC No. 133159
>>128202
>gun beats martial arts
yeah no shit, not really the discussion at hand though eh? i think anyone with 2 brain cells knows that a gun beats punching kicking and grappling
Anonymous at Sun, 22 Jan 2023 14:26:37 UTC No. 133161
>>133159
Does it? You have to draw it first.
Anonymous at Sun, 22 Jan 2023 15:05:22 UTC No. 133164
>>133161
you know what good point, i wonder why the military and police in every nation even bother with those things, totally ineffective compared to a well trained mind and body
Anonymous at Sun, 22 Jan 2023 17:11:11 UTC No. 133176
>>128084
Boxing and wrestling will give you a great foundation in little time
Anonymous at Mon, 23 Jan 2023 11:29:07 UTC No. 133293
Nobody in this thread said anything about legality. If you have to fight to defend yourself, it's so much better when you have no striking marks to incriminate you.
If you throw a mawf on the concrete, unless a camera caught the action, nobody can prove you did shit. The guy fell and ground roughed him up.
Anonymous at Wed, 22 Feb 2023 04:12:39 UTC No. 136724
>>131333
Lmao nice
Anonymous at Wed, 22 Feb 2023 13:56:33 UTC No. 136753
>>128521
>Bjj over boxing
This is a retarded take, in the average fighting situation boxing dominates.
Anonymous at Mon, 27 Feb 2023 10:21:44 UTC No. 137313
>>132461
Wrestling > BJJ> Sambo > Judo
Anonymous at Thu, 2 Mar 2023 23:24:34 UTC No. 137761
>>128084
Muay Thai on the feet, Judo to take it to the ground, BJJ on the ground. Or something similar anyway, wrestling can replace Judo, kickboxing can replace Muay Thai, etc. You need at the least, competency in all 3 key areas of MMA. Of course, MMA training is one of the best ways to achieve this because it does all at once but I'd recommend taking beginner MMA classes and Muay Thai or BJJ or something
>>128336
>Guy shoots double leg
>Teep to the face
>Guy clinches for a takedown
>Elbow to the jaw
Etc. Grappling can be beaten, as long as you know what you're doing. That's like someone who doesn't know how to fight getting beaten up by a boxer and thinking boxing is a god tier fighting style.
>>136753
Yeah, because the average fighting situation is two dudes who don't know a thing about fighting standing in the street and throwing punches at each other. As soon as one guy knows how to throw a single leg and GNP or a head kick it's over for boxers
Anonymous at Fri, 3 Mar 2023 00:25:42 UTC No. 137770
>>133176
>gets leg kicked to death
>gets subbed to death
Nice foundation, retard.
Anonymous at Fri, 3 Mar 2023 00:41:41 UTC No. 137774
>>129318
>idk why people love judo on its own so much
a couple of reasons i can think of, heres a list of reason why i like it, as someone who loves grappling in general.
1) judo throws looks great, even the messy ones at the olympics, while watching high level wrestling and bjj can be a bit dull.
2)it was one of the first major martial arts to philosophically focus on sparring in a safe but realistic manner
3) it had both groundwork and standing techniques, which is why it spawned bjj and sambo (sambo is so similar to judo that the only major difference is leg grabs, and alot of top samboist are also judokas), so everything that is in bjj and sambo technically could have been developed in judo and many are in fact developed in the past with judo.
4) despite its current shitty state for self defense, its hard to write it off because most of its flaws are from shitty arbitrary rules from the IJF and olympics for the sake of "good judo" that looks traditional and "graceful". There is a sense that judo has massive potential if only it figured out reward groundwork competence while still focusing on takedowns and allowing leg grabs.
Anonymous at Fri, 3 Mar 2023 20:36:09 UTC No. 137854
>>128525
Judo pre-90s was fucking metal
Anonymous at Fri, 3 Mar 2023 20:37:50 UTC No. 137855
>>129039
>subhuman who can't spell relevant wants to talk
Anonymous at Fri, 3 Mar 2023 20:44:56 UTC No. 137857
>>128906
>since they're sister arts
They aren't, sambo is let me copy your homework but make it look different judo. The founders were 99% obsessed with Japan, one was one of the first black belt foreingers, opened up one of the first judo schools in Russia and died in prison because Russia thought he was a japanese spy. The other was a jujutsu weaboo but was most likely the reason that the kneebar survived after the leglock ban in Japan, and the person who officially invented sambo was a judo student of the first guy.
Anonymous at Sun, 5 Mar 2023 00:48:03 UTC No. 137987
>>131066
I strongly suspect you're baiting, but, it's difficult to use a pipe bomb to defend yourself in a barfight, for home defense if you suspect an intruder (but haven't confirmed), or against being mugged in a narrow space.
>>131308
This guy gets it. Bombs kind of suck in any situation where you risk also getting caught in the blast radius.
Anonymous at Sun, 5 Mar 2023 00:52:18 UTC No. 137988
>>137987
Newfaggot, go back
Anonymous at Mon, 6 Mar 2023 20:11:05 UTC No. 138126
>>128084
>...or maybe should I not complicate this and just go to an mma training
This has my vote. Modern MMA as a style is typically a mix of boxing, wrestling, muay thai, and jiujitsu. Very well rounded and proven effective.
Anonymous at Mon, 13 Mar 2023 02:14:29 UTC No. 138886
>>128309
i have a theory about flashy/mcdojo martial arts. they work. but they assume you have a solid base in fighting already. this is the stuff you learn when you already know jujutsu and boxing stuff. advanced special techniques that may give you an edge in a more violent society in which warriors are revered. think about in history where you could be paid to be a body guard or mercenary there would've been a lot more people who could fight and get paid for being skilled in martial arts. any edge would've been worth it to seek out masters. unfortunately over time the focus went to the flashy stuff over the solid base that everyone would've had when lives depended on it.
Anonymous at Mon, 13 Mar 2023 05:56:08 UTC No. 138901
>>132261
>Yeah, and a mount and back mount do not finish fights either by themselves, and are worth points in BJJ.
Those positions do not end fights, as you can get out of those bad positions with a bit of skill, but the positions put you at a disadvantage and make it more likely that you will be submitted, thats why points are given, to acknowledge that one guy has managed to outmanoeuvre his opponent and should be rewarded.
Sweeps and pins, even being mounted, doesnt end a fight, even in MMA, there are countless examples of people in UFC and other promotions where some guy gets out of mount. Its tough, but its possible, and so just getting mount shouldn't end the fight. Even throws on concrete don't necessarily end the fight, as seen in things like KOTS. They will probably hurt like a bitch but you can recover from them. So sorry judo bitch, in no world does it make sense to count a pin or a throw the same as a submission, where the opponent actively says "ok I surrender you win".
Anonymous. at Fri, 17 Mar 2023 20:52:58 UTC No. 139319
>>128084
Go to MMA training, on top of whatever appeals to you.
You'll get people of different backgrounds coming in, with different approaches.
>EG. I use a mix of wing chun, fencing and karate to parry strikes and then counter with straights I can turn into backfists to get through guards.
Anonymous. at Fri, 17 Mar 2023 20:59:09 UTC No. 139321
>>132393
Kek no.
I had a guy try to shoot on me straight for thirty unbroken seconds. Fast guy, going hard too.
Literally all I needed to do was match his speed going backwards, and just throw a couple strikes to fuck with him. I didn't even end up hitting him very hard.
Get better footwork, and learn how to push a jab enough to move their head off-line.
Anonymous at Sat, 18 Mar 2023 03:19:44 UTC No. 139345
>>139321
The key is to not shoot immediately. Start standing up and if the guy is a good boxer you can shoot after a couple of exchanges.
Anonymous at Sat, 18 Mar 2023 03:47:51 UTC No. 139352
>>139345
Lol if the guy is a good boxer the last thing you would want to do is "exchange"
Anonymous at Sat, 18 Mar 2023 04:50:08 UTC No. 139355
Best martial art for a tranny? I was kind of a chad before I started shooting up estrogen so I think I can still spar with average dudes. I competed in a striking art as a teenager, so I dunno if I want to get better at striking or switch to grappling. I don't really care about self defense purposes or autistically optimizing my "combat effectiveness".
Anonymous at Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:32:32 UTC No. 139378
>>128084
For what?
For unarmed self defense you just need good hard hand strikes and some standup. Barely anyone kicks irl and going to the ground usually means it's already over because someone got knocked out or slammed on the sidewalk.
Anonymous at Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:34:54 UTC No. 139379
>>128194
Nope.
You really don't need much for the average fight. Most of what he named is a waste of time, you will likely never use kicks or groundfighting in a real altercation.
Here's how it goes:
>One punches first
>Usually it's over now
>If not, there's clinching
>Someone gets thrown on the asphalt or knocked out
>The end
Anonymous at Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:12:18 UTC No. 139488
>>128124
The problem with aikido is someone learns the movements but doesnt ever learn or realise what those movements are for