🧵 Pound4Pound in Combat Sports In Nothing But Fantasy.
Enki at Sun, 8 Jan 2023 23:14:44 UTC No. 131935
Anyone remember that scene from Quentin Tarantino's movie: Once Upon A Time In Hollywood where Brad Pitts Character laughs when Bruce Lee's claimed he'd beat Muhammad Ali in a fight? People got upset with Tarantino because of how he treated Lee's legacy but its all fantasy. I'm sure Lee could beat the average guy during his time but he'd lose vs an MMA fighter of today. In all combat sports bar none the best fighter is always going to be the guy who dominates the heavier weight classes. Weight classes exist for a reason. Some claim P4P Khabib or GSP are the best ever but the reality is they'd all get destroyed by Jon Jones or even Ngannou. If someone asks who'd win a Wolf or a Bear you'd say a Bear. Size is an advantage just like speed and reflexes. Whether its an unfair advantage or not is irrelevant. Trying to work out who's P4P based on how much better their competition has been or how they would do if they were in such and such weight class is all just a guessing game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcs
Anonymous at Mon, 9 Jan 2023 06:24:23 UTC No. 131963
>>131935
Tarrantino is an asshole and his movies are mostly garbage. And he, who knows nothing about fighting dares to insult a great fighter just because he did not like him.
Fun fact: he actually wanted Brett to beat up Bruce serverly and make him look like a joke but Bruce said "no, find another actor then."
Anonymous at Mon, 9 Jan 2023 10:09:37 UTC No. 131969
>>131935
inoki beat ali by kicking him in the legs
tl;dr you're a fat bitch
Anonymous at Mon, 9 Jan 2023 10:48:25 UTC No. 131973
>>131935
Pound for pound doesn't translate into objective efficiency is already in the name, you're arguing by yourself here. It just means relative dominancy, otherwise why even bother having weight category in the first place? Those are fighting "sports", the goal isn't to find the strongest person but to organize and advertise fights.
Anonymous at Sat, 14 Jan 2023 01:07:43 UTC No. 132341
While not technically true as >>131973 points out, people tend to use the phrase literally. And in that sense, you shouldn't even consider ranking a fighter under it unless they've actually competed in multiple classes.
Anonymous at Sat, 14 Jan 2023 04:20:32 UTC No. 132356
>>131935
Wow that's crazy
Anyway, you catch the game?
Anonymous at Fri, 20 Jan 2023 05:52:27 UTC No. 132879
>>131935
Pound for pound is stupid because it's easier to be a dominant champion in a lower weight class. The heavy weights can literally end eachother in one punch... Once you're past a certain threshold of average power level it becomes much harder to be consistently dominant so it should be treated as more noteworthy. The lighter weight classes can also more easily pull off complex maneuvers. Totally different thing for a 250 lb man to land a wheel kick or jumping shit than a 125 lb one even if the 250 lb one is all muscle. This makes the lighter weight classes more fun to watch generally but you have to understand it's an unrealistic representation of fighting. Because just in terms of who would win on a fight the lower weight classes become completely irrelevant. Trying to think of it in terms of pound for pound is just putting smaller people on a pedestal, because you cannot imagine scaling their size up and still doing the same things. For all you know if you did that they would be complete trash.
Anonymous at Fri, 20 Jan 2023 08:58:59 UTC No. 132884
>>132879
but the skill gap between light and heavy classes is massive. by your same token, heavyweights and even other higher weight classes can use power as a crutch, where light guys have to have extreme levels of skill to win. the p4p would definitely be a light guy who is extremely dominant, likely one that has fought in at least two weight classes. when you watch the lighter mma guys fight, even in b-league orgs, they're more technical than a-league heavyweights.
Anonymous at Fri, 20 Jan 2023 09:02:10 UTC No. 132885
>>131935
Ngannou isn't even in the talks of being pound for pound. he got manhandled by a 235lb Stipe in the first fight. Sure, he won the second, but technically that should warrant a trilogy. there are other heavyweights, even some outside of UFC that can wrestlefuck him badly if Stipe did, because these guys are even better wrestlers AND his size. Blaydes for example should have been able to, but he gets clipped by every power puncher he faces, not just Ngannou.
Anonymous at Fri, 20 Jan 2023 14:36:23 UTC No. 132901
>>131935
The strongest and most dominant champions are often undersized (eg. Dempsey, Marciano in boxing) or normal sized. It's almost unheard of for hulking monsters like Valuev or Sapp to be dominant champions.
So no, size isn't all. It's a lifter cope for people who think they'll be safe if they just become as fat as possible.
Anonymous at Fri, 20 Jan 2023 14:38:14 UTC No. 132902
>>132885
Stipe is, strictly speaking, an amateur since he has a day job as a firefighter and MMA is just his side gig. Imagine calling a pro who gets fucked up by an amateur great.
Anonymous at Fri, 20 Jan 2023 18:09:27 UTC No. 132925
>>132901
>Khabib'sboxoftiaramisu.exe
Anonymous at Fri, 20 Jan 2023 19:46:32 UTC No. 132930
>>132879
>it's an unrealistic representation of fighting.
So these guys are not fighting? No sports is "a realistic representation of fighting" in that regard.
Combat sports are that, a sport, and a spectator sport for the most part. They are still fighting. If weight class are out of the window, why would their be a ring, a referee, one person and a scheduled date?
If you don't like weight class, watch sumo.
Anonymous at Sat, 21 Jan 2023 09:36:34 UTC No. 133012
>>132884
I already said the lightweights are more technical my entire point is that having a lighter body makes that easier and is why pound for pound ratings are stupid and nonsensical
>>132930
Because you are never going to be attacked by a 125 5'2 guy so what is effective for two guys at that weight is not representative of actual fighting. At heavy weight you also cannot have the issue of someone using weight cutting for an edge.
Anonymous at Sat, 21 Jan 2023 09:51:46 UTC No. 133014
>>133012
Also to add to this both power and durability scale up with size but power scales up more so. If you gained 20 lbs of muscle right this instant distributed throughout your body your punching power would surely increase more than your chin(neck muscle bracing impact). So the heavier weight classes are just inherently more dangerous than the lighter ones.
Anonymous at Sat, 21 Jan 2023 19:36:22 UTC No. 133078
>>131935
>Some claim P4P Khabib or GSP are the best ever but the reality is they'd all get destroyed by Jon Jones or even Ngannou
Khabib sure would, the bitch is walking around at 200 pounds and fought à 155
Anonymous at Sat, 21 Jan 2023 21:49:35 UTC No. 133089
>>133012
>Because you are never going to be attacked by a 125 5'2 guy so what is effective for two guys at that weight is not representative of actual fighting
But those 125 5'2 guys doing boxing are actually fighting each other for real... you're saying nonsense here, that's my point. P4P is a sport concept, that is applied to sport and only to sport in its sportive context. What even is "real fighting"? Do you think people in combat sports aren't "really fighting"? I sorta understand what you mean but fighting has many different contexts and applications, and all of it is fighting. P4P is unusable outside of sport so... who cares about "but in reality, big guys would wreck smol guys!".
If "real fighting" means fighting with no rules, against strangers, self defense or the likes, who would actually want that, want in the sense, desire to get in those situations? Boxing isn't for this sort of "real fighting" whatever that means. Regardless, boxing is usually much more real than people who "train" for "real fighting", because boxers WANT to to box. Boxers are much more "fighters" than whoever trains for what seems to be your idea of "real fighting".