Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 13:26:15 UTC No. 139729

>>139715
I think your approach is flawed for a number of reasons. The easiest to articulate is that combat is not turn based, people move at the same time - no "stance" makes it particularly more likely to get hit anywhere compared to the attack or counterattack you launch from it. The most common place to hit and be hit in a fight with melee weapons is the leading weapon hand or arm when there isn't a significant gap in skill. It's also rare you hit your first intention target at all. Even for a non fighter it's easy to imagine how a descending cut to the head could easily land upon a shoulder even without much movement. It might strike a thigh if he steps back, could become a thrust if he botches a counter strike or parry while moving forwards. A thrust aimed at centre mass could easily become a slice across the belly, neck or thigh.

The second point to articulate is that the above is not necessarily true at all for unarmed fighting.

As a /tg/ gamer myself, the thing you might find counterintuitive is that a simulationist approach is not the realistic one because fighting is always chaotic and messy with random shit happening all the time. Pic related is imo the best trpg combat system of all time for narrowing things down to a few simple tactical decisions that suit different skills, abilities and equipment and assigns targets randomly. Being a system of opposed simultaneous abstracted actions with results derived from comparative success/failure with unpredictable outcomes it's the closest I've found to what real fighting feels like and results in.

If I was attempting what you are I'd base on this approach but start adding specific detail for different kinds of attacks, what they're likely to end up doing vs what they expose on you, and have your stance system, relative range and weapons dictate what attacks you can launch.

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 13:27:17 UTC No. 139730

>>139729
For example fighter A might attack with a low thrust from a low guard, and fighter B a descending cut from a high guard. Whoever rolls highest on their skill and wins consults the low thrust vs descending cut table. If Fighter A won by a lot he has a good chance of landing his thrust to the torso, shoulder, belly, face or neck in about that order of likelihood. If fighter A wins by a little he slices fighter B's upper arm/shoulder/torso etc. If fighter B wins by a lot he lands the hit to the shoulder/head/collar/neck/arm, if fighter B wins by a little he's likely to land his cut with less force to the same targets but receive a slice to the outer arm or back of his hand. Rolls that are close enough to be an inconclusive tie might result in follow up attacks where one fighter might elect to grapple, strike with an offhand weapon or whatever now they're at a closer range.

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 14:26:02 UTC No. 139734

>>139729
Agree with this guy to an extent. Main highlights:
>The most common place to hit and be hit in a fight with melee weapons is the leading weapon hand or arm
>It's also rare you hit your first intention target at all.
>Being a system of opposed simultaneous abstracted actions with results derived from comparative success/failure with unpredictable outcomes it's the closest I've found to what real fighting feels like and results in.
Last point I think would be incredibly hard to implement in a tg. Could be very fun if it didn't take 5 minutes to calculate.

>>139715
For this, I'd say having specific targets WITHIN THE LIMB, like the shoulder, etc. Is retarded and impractical (even if you make it random, each part isn't equal chance).
Also,
Just because you hit an area doesn't necessarily mean you cripple somebody. Maybe if you get a high roll.

EXCEPT the head, I'd say for the head it's actually rather practical. I'll rate your current system then give my own evaluation.
>forehead
Stunned? Not unless it's a very hard hit. You could give disadvantage in things that require dexterity, balance.
>ear
No qualms here.
>eye
What is partial blindness? Getting hit in one eye or the other, can reduce your vision on the respective side, especially peripheral vision. I'd make it so that ranged attacks from far that side, or maybe combo attacks have a bonus.
>nose/cheeks
All of them have reduced appearance.
>mouth/jaw - muddled speech
Jaw is prime target for knocking somebody out unarmed.
Should also have the effect of forehead along with muddled speech, it's much easier to KO hitting the jaw.

HEAD
For the head I'd add
>back of the head
This technique is banned in unarmed fighting, it's called "rabbit punching", because it's used to execute rabbits. It can literally turn people retarded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeJ3jlQg2tU
Would be relatively unlikely with a spear or longer weapons though.
It would be like the forehead, but require less of a high roll to stun.

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 14:27:05 UTC No. 139735

>>139734
ARMS
For the arms, hand/finger attacks should be included.
But losing or weakening some fingers doesn't mean you are automatically disarmed, especially when you have an adrenaline rush strengthening you and making you ignore pain.
Like I said, there are different magnitudes of injury—high rolls should disarm, but otherwise, just weaken.

TORSO
Again, different magnitudes of injury.
Left chest =/= instant death. You could get a shallow wound, or a warhammer could transfer a lot of force through chest armor, injuring you but not cutting you at all.
Look at ARMS for my opinion on the clavicle injury.
>genitals
It's a mixed bag. For women, probably no effect. For men, it COULD be crippling, it could also do nothing.
It will be more crippling if it's a surprise attack or a slow-paced combat with low Adrenaline.
I'd add in
>liver
Right side, underneath the ribs. It will cause crippling pain and make you kneel down, even if you are pumped by adrenaline and can't feel most pain.
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/what-does-a-liver-punch-feel-like.541195/
>Debilitating. Oscar soiling his pants is completely understandable if you have ever been hit there.
>Its paralyzing I got hit in the liver play fighting with one of my cousins at 14, I curled up in a ball on the floor for about 5 minutes. hey I've taken tons of horrible blows to the head from everything imaginable, never too bothered by it, but I have a glass liver.

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 14:32:06 UTC No. 139737

>>139735
This is very interesting, I'd say the main issue is just how exaggerated the effects are.
Just because you hit somebody in the arm, doesn't mean it's instantly broken and they can't use it anymore.
It could be a glancing blow, whatever (look at the vid here vs here >>139735 they both do leg kicks, one doesn't hurt his opponent, the other breaks HIS OWN LEG)

If somebody hits you in the knee, it could slightly wound that and you feel nothing, OR you lose your entire leg from the knee down. Although, I'd say since the knee doesn't have that much padding, it's where all your tendons connect, it's very likely you would be hampered, even with a glancing blow.

I'd like to talk more about this, if you want give your discord or upload something on https://litterbox.catbox.moe I'll check this thread relatively frequently.

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 15:04:18 UTC No. 139743

>>139734
The Hârnmaster combat system is pretty front loaded but once your character us set up and you're familiar with their skills and equipment it goes fast and smooth. It's a real gem.

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 15:52:40 UTC No. 139753

>>139729
>>139730
>>139734
>>139735
>>139737
Thank you for the ideas.

Based on this I realize I've thought about the stance system wrong. Right now the idea was that:
>stance would consist of 12 point hit location list that you create based on your fighting style
>there are 9 possible locations so some have to appear on the stance more often than some
>when you get hit a d12 is rolled to see what part of you gets hit
I should maybe rather make it so that instead of stances they are "guards" that enable different directional attacks, and different guards have fixed hit location list. Advance combatants could then learn more advanced guards, where some of those 9 hit locations are not on the hit location list at all, and blows would more likely land where you want them to if you can't avoid getting hit.

This whole thing is driven by my autism of creating as modular armor system as possible. Want to be a gladiator that wields armor only on one hand and your head? Go for it. You'll gain bonuses to agility for wearing less armor. Want to be a knight in full armor? Sure, you'll be easier to hit, but blows glance more often.

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 16:26:53 UTC No. 139756

>>139753
>This whole thing is driven by my autism of creating as modular armor system as possible. Want to be a gladiator that wields armor only on one hand and your head? Go for it.
>>139753
>Is this even remotely accurate to reality?
The chances to hit each part aren't accurate, and it's almost impossible to make accurate. Maybe if you had a d100. The effects are mostly accurate, although how severe they will be varies. So if you make some tweaks, you can get something very good.

>as modular armor system as possible
>reality
Doesn't work, for the most part people want as much armor as they can get, UNLESS it fits badly or it's too expensive (hence why the further you go, the more armor there is).

90% of the time warriors have a helmet and breastplate.
I'll name some historical scenarios (I know of) where people have asymmetrical armor:
>fencing coach sleeves
>jousting ecranches + pauldrons
>gladiators
Pretty much all of these aren't real war. I don't know if ecranches were used in war, but milanese armor did have a asymmetrically stronger shoulder armor.

>driven by my autism of creating as modular armor system as possible
If there's anything else you need, I'd be happy to help. This kind of autism is my favorite.

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 16:55:35 UTC No. 139757

>>139756
The pic in OP isn't my system btw, it is just something I found when googling hit location charts for the OP pic.

>The chances to hit each part aren't accurate, and it's almost impossible to make accurate. Maybe if you had a d100. The effects are mostly accurate, although how severe they will be varies. So if you make some tweaks, you can get something very good.

The main reason I'd like to keep it as d12, is that then I could make dodging work by the defender rolling their dodge die, and subtracting it from the attacker's result, and if the result is <0, the attack misses completely. Aiming for a specific body part would work by declaring the intended target before rolling, and then checking the defender's hit location/guard table, and seeing if the intended target location is on the list between 1 and the result of the roll.

>Doesn't work, for the most part people want as much armor as they can get, UNLESS it fits badly or it's too expensive (hence why the further you go, the more armor there is).
The setting of the game is sort of arena combat, where players would have to buy armor pieces with their earnings from the arena, so that's why you might not have the complete armor set from the get go.

>Pretty much all of these aren't real war. I don't know if ecranches were used in war, but milanese armor did have a asymmetrically stronger shoulder armor.
I'm taking some liberties with how anachronistic different types of armor are, since there is a underlying fantasy theme going on. Some light Witcher type of combat magic as well, so I don't want to adhere too strictly to any specific time period. I know not all armors and weapon are created equal.

>If there's anything else you need, I'd be happy to help. This kind of autism is my favorite.
What do you think would be the minimum of different guard types that I should try to come up with? Personally I have no background in martial arts so this is all pretty new to me.

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 18:53:40 UTC No. 139763

>>139729
What a long winded but retarded post
>no stance makes it more likely to get anywhere
I stopped reading here
>>139715
There’s way too much to go over but I’ll give you some perspective from the German longsword system. Each guard has a different purpose. Left and right pflug prevent strike from below on their respective sides, similarly left and right ochs defends against left and right cuts from above. Long point forces your enemy to deal with your point before coming into range and vin tag threatens a strike from above forcing your opponent to either deal with an impending attack or risk doubling. That’s a coloring book version of the Basic German guards.

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 19:34:20 UTC No. 139766

>>139763
>There’s way too much to go over but I’ll give you some perspective from the German longsword system. Each guard has a different purpose. Left and right pflug prevent strike from below on their respective sides, similarly left and right ochs defends against left and right cuts from above. Long point forces your enemy to deal with your point before coming into range and vin tag threatens a strike from above forcing your opponent to either deal with an impending attack or risk doubling. That’s a coloring book version of the Basic German guards.
Thanks dude. This explanation was actually really useful.

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 20:06:32 UTC No. 139769

>>139757
Don't know much about weapons fighting.
Hopefully you can get some ideas from unarmed fighting.

>Boxing (only punches above the belt)
Guard is at the chin to protect from punches (not too high so you can attack better, and defend your body), legs spread apart so that you can transfer as much force as possible with your punches. Staggered stance; your front hand is for quick attacks, back hand is for full rotation and powerful attacks. Rotating the core is important for power, this is why combos are USUALLY left-right-left instead of left-left-left.
>Muay Thai (elbows, knees, kicks, lots of leg kicks)
Guard is high like in picrel, allows you to catch kicks to your stomach, and block kicks to the head with both arms. Standing tall with legs close together, allows them to block leg kicks >>139735
As you can see here, leg kicks can break your own leg if the opponent blocks. This is relatively rare though, usually it just hurts, slowing down the kicker over time.
>Kickboxing
Similar to muay thai, but instead of having your posture forward (square stance), you are more to the side (bladed stance). This gives you more movement and makes you a smaller target, more important because kickboxing is scored on number of hits instead of power, and you don't grapple in kickboxing.
Armed fighting often uses the bladed stance, with one foot far in front of the other, and your body angled to the side so you are a smaller target.
>Bareknuckle boxing
Hands are down low and forward, because hitting the skull with the bare fist can break it. Low hands allows you to move quicker, and protect the body better.
Forward hands means faster but weaker punches, and better ability to grapple. Modern boxing has little to no clinching and grappling, bareknuckle you were allowed to throw.

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 20:07:33 UTC No. 139770

>>139769

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 20:15:56 UTC No. 139771

>>139770
>Wrestling
Low stance, hands forward. The hands don't need to be backward for generating power in punches, because you're using them to grab.
Being low allows you to reach the legs more quickly for throwing the opponent off-balance. Too low and people can just grab you by your head and control you that way, or you will barely be able to move.
>Judo
Upright stance, leg grabs are banned. You also have a jacket or gi, which can be used to grab the sleeves and help with throws.

>>139763
Looks like Langenort, Pflug, and Ochs are more for defense.
On Vom Ta and Nebenhut you can generate a lot of power in GIANT SWINGS.
>>139757
>What do you think would be the minimum of different guard types that I should try to come up with?
Think of the playstyles you want.
Defense, offense, hybrid, weird, speedy.
Have the basic stances and if they align with a playstyle archetype, all the better.

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 20:27:12 UTC No. 139773

>>139771
> Looks like Langenort, Pflug, and Ochs are more for defense.
On Vom Ta and Nebenhut you can generate a lot of power in GIANT SWINGS.
Basically yes but you should remember that threatening an offensive action is in itself a form of defense

Anonymous at Wed, 22 Mar 2023 20:28:05 UTC No. 139774

>>139769
>>139770
>>139771
>>139773
This is fantastic stuff. Thanks!

>Think of the playstyles you want.
>Defense, offense, hybrid, weird, speedy.
Yeah I might abstract this a bit, so I don't end up with hundreds of different guards to tinker around with lol.

Anonymous at Thu, 23 Mar 2023 16:58:59 UTC No. 139898

>>139763
No fights by adopting posta and sitting in attack range while doing literally nothing moron. The second you attack or react you're going to be in or heading to longa or frontale/some kind of cover if you've fucked up

Thinking it's about stance dancing in or near attack range is the biggest retard beginner mistake there is