Anonymous at Tue, 16 May 2023 20:33:22 UTC No. 146610

Its masterfully crafted bait that would definitely trip up a lot of people that dont know any better
You make points that sound just convincing enough

Anonymous at Tue, 16 May 2023 20:34:44 UTC No. 146611

>>146605
Counter point, OP is a faggot

Anonymous at Tue, 16 May 2023 22:54:58 UTC No. 146630

>>146605
I prefer BJJ to Wrestling because training BJJ is much more fun and I don't want to be a professional fighter.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 00:03:08 UTC No. 146635

Wonder if the BJJ hate its the typical "I hate the popular thing" 4chan mentality

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 01:17:03 UTC No. 146637

>>146635
it's not hated because it's popular, it's hated because it makes false promises and thinks way too highly of itself

everyone agrees bjj is on the way out. It's an obsolete art form like kung fu. Go ahead and practice it for fun if you want, just understand if you're looking to learn how to fight it's basically the worst choice you can make for grappling arts.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 01:31:59 UTC No. 146638

>>146635
You’ve cracked the code

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 01:51:23 UTC No. 146640

>>146637
The only way to learn any grappling its in BJJ gyms in the vast majority of the world.
Wrestling, Sambo, non-olympic Judo, those and others are super rare outside their respective countries meanwhile BJJ its pretty much everywhere.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 02:36:57 UTC No. 146644

>>146640
Well that's true, but you know the reason it's so wide spread? Because its piss easy
You can be 45+ and stoned off your ass and still do it
Its boarderline tai chi

People from other grappling sports retire into bjj

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 04:05:10 UTC No. 146656

>>146635
That and it's not Japanese so weebs hate it.
>>146637
>everyone agrees bjj is on the way out
Judo is far more likely in the west (only place that matters) than BJJ to die out, because of the way they're run. BJJ realised there's a problem and started incorporating other styles into it if they're effective. They hear the complaining about takedowns, and more and more rulesets are being made to stop guard-pulling and reward takedowns more, allowing more techniques from other styles to show. Judo is constantly banning more and more of their own techniques, and doing stuff like banning high-level competitors from doing anything that isn't IJF-related like MMA doesn't help. I love and train both, but the IJF is single-handedly killing Judo.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 04:43:57 UTC No. 146660

>>146656
But at the end of the day for whatever reason Maybe because it sounds official, but the unelected private corporation of the IBJJF is what people accept as the word of God when it comes to BJJ
And they might make small adjustments here and there but they're never going to radically change their rules. So BJJ will always be taught through the bias of that rule set. That's why BJJ fighters in mma are a total joke now, Because the sport is geared for the sport not for fighting And if you want to learn how to fight you're better off learning how to wrestle and then adding a few submissions in.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 05:01:39 UTC No. 146662

>>146660
>but the unelected private corporation of the IBJJF is what people accept as the word of God when it comes to BJJ
IBJJF only allowed heel hooks last year, and only for Adult Black Belt Nogi divisions. If everyone followed IBJJF like you said, we wouldn't have had the massive leglock meta change that's happened over the last decade. In my country, Grapping Industries gets far more entries to competitions than IBJJF competitions because of their stupid requirement to be registered with them like Judo. The IBJJF has to make rule changes to stay relevant, not the athletes/community having to change their styles to abide rule changes (again, like Judo).

>That's why BJJ fighters in mma are a total joke now
Oliviera only recently lost the title, and fighters like Burns and Maia were pretty much in the top 10 their whole career. I don't think BJJ is the best base for anybody, otherwise you get shit like Kron Gracie, but I think it's one of the best complimentary styles (like you said, wrestling and add submissions). Maybe if Cejudo added a few more submissions he could've actually done something with his takedowns.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 05:19:37 UTC No. 146663

>>146662
Grappling industries runs a better tournament, you get your money's worth even if you lose
But nobody really cares about the results it's like you're not really a world champion unless you're an ibjjf world champion. For whatever reason that's the standard which is funny because there are so many damn divisions that a world champion status through them is basically meaningless.
Even me, a mediocre retard on 4chan is an ibjjf world champion in my division.

In my view adcc is all that matters

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 05:50:33 UTC No. 146665

>>146663
>But nobody really cares about the results it's like you're not really a world champion unless you're an ibjjf world champion
I'd say that's true for people that don't do BJJ or compete, but most people that train I'm pretty sure would ask "what division" after hearing someone's a world champ, as you're right, there are a lot of different qualifiers. It might just be my area, but I think people that compete now are a lot more interested about who you beat, rather than what you placed.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 06:58:14 UTC No. 146668

>>146660
I get a feeling that you are dishing out a lot if bjj hate but don't actually train bjj. I think this is the case because most nogi grapplers could not give two shots about the ibjjf. Most nogi guys go nuts over adcc, nogi worlds is like resume padding bullshit and ignoring anything the ibjjf says is a treasured pastime. That's how heel hooks came into the game for example. The ibjjf is not gods word mister judo man, it's mostly ignored by over half of the sport and is routinely forced to change its rules in order to accommodate new things popular in nogi.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 07:09:09 UTC No. 146672

>>146605
Modern submission grappling > catch wrestling > BJJ > freestyle wrestling > Greco-Roman wrestling > judo

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 09:35:58 UTC No. 146683

>>146637
It depends. Gi bjj will likely become one of these rare martial arts which Sensei Seth takes a free trial unless they will convince people that gi techniques are useful in self defence. No gi bjj/submission grappling will stay popular because it's super effective. Same reason why I think no gi judo will soon become a thing.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 12:35:23 UTC No. 146693

>>146683
Nogi judo will likely not become a thing. Instead it will simply be absorbed into submission wrestling. The problem with nogi judo is that there are no real competitions for it. Judo will always be in the gi because the japanese will refuse to drop it, so you will need to make your own competitions, but people barely watch nogi bjj let alone a version of bjj with no submissions and spinny shit and inversions. You will definitely have good judo guys being brought in to teach judo techniques in nogi, but you wont have a whole new sport. Judos time for innovation has long since passed.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 14:14:22 UTC No. 146705

>>146668
Nogi isnt bjj, you might not like it but its integral to it just like judo
Bjj is a gi art with belts
If you want to just submission grapple without a gi on that's fine but you're not doing bjj anymore

It's just not appropriate as a practitioner to decide well I don't like this part of it so I'm not going to do it but still claim I do the art

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 16:02:32 UTC No. 146735

>>146705
Your attitude about what defines BJJ has been irrelevant since the late 90s. The Gracies used to say this shit and everyone ignored them and started taking off their gi and grabbing heel hooks. BJJ is a bigger thing than some Brazilian family dictating the rules from on-high. Even BJJ gyms that aren't entirely no gi have no gi days and they don't need to announce that it's a different martial art before class, that would be asinine.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 16:40:59 UTC No. 146743

>>146705
> It's just not appropriate as a practitioner to decide well I don't like this part of it so I'm not going to do it but still claim I do the art

Reminder that nobody who won at Judo World Championships this week, as well as who has ever medaled in Judo at the Olympics for the last 50 years actually does Judo.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 16:49:19 UTC No. 146746

>>146735
>everyone ignored them and started taking off their gi and grabbing heel hooks
That's kind of the point
Everyone realized hey this bjj shit kinda sucks and we're limiting ourselves for no reason, let's do something else.
Keenan was right, by today's standards helio gracie would be a purple belt.

Theres something to be said if in just one generation the art has moved so far past you that your 10th degree grand master is the same skill level of a 2x a week hobbyist
Bjj is over

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 16:59:05 UTC No. 146750

>>146746
This is semantics but I'm pretty sure "BJJ" was actually the term coined to distance the art from the Gracies. Back in the day they always called it "Gracie jiu-jitsu" and some of the old geezers like Relson still insist that GJJ is a complete art and that cross training is pointless and/or disrespectful. That shit is definitely dead in the water. No one takes that seriously anymore and we haven't since like 2000.

BJJ on the other hand is a vibrant art with a variety of rulesets and training methodologies that has grown explosively over the past few decades. Whether one of these gyms decides to call what they teach something else is up to them, like Kenan and his American jiu-jitsu. But I wouldn't say any of them are wrong for sticking with BJJ. The Gracies don't own that term despite what they might wish.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 17:01:02 UTC No. 146753

>>146746
This guy has some weird love/hate relationship with the Gracies where he nuthugs them as being some kind of authority for BJJ, but also calls them bad and ineffective. Even the Gracie’s themselves differentiate between GJJ and BJJ.

Nobody gives a fuck what some dead old faggot or his descendants cares or did. This ain’t Judo where you have to bow to picture of boomers or their ghost will haunt you. People are going to keep doing whatever moves they want in BJJ, call it BJJ, and you can cry weeb tears about how it’s not what some old dead nobody thinks so it should be called weeb shit instead.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 17:39:29 UTC No. 146760

>>146753
Nah he doesnt nuthug the gracies. He just has a very strict and unusual definition of what is and is not BJJ, and using that strict definition he can talk mad shit about BJJ. Most people on planet earth use BJJ and submission grappling interchangeably. Now you could say that that is wrong, but thats irrelevant as everyone in this thread and in general uses the terms like that, maybe with the exception of people who run tournaments. Maybe one day we will separate nogi submission wrestling from BJJ, but thats unlikely, instead we will probably just keep doing what we do now, using BJJ as a term to describe a heterogenous mix of submission wrestling techniques, some in the gi and some without. The fact that he defines BJJ as being in the gi is why he says shit like "ibjjf is the word of god", when he knows full well that people in what is generally called nogi simply do not give a shit what the ibjjf says and all look the adcc as the authoritative ruleset, and even then there are still other tournaments like EBI that are seen as perfectly valid and worth training for.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 17:49:35 UTC No. 146761

>>146750>>146753
Higaonna was practicing southern white crane, his student miyagi said this is cool but its lacking, so he added grappling and now its goju
His student Oyama said this is cool but way too dangerous for competition, so he got rid of the face punches and now its kyokushin
His student ishii said this is fine and everything but not very realistic, so he ditched the gi and added the face punches back and now we have kickboxing

Kano learned jujitsu and said this is too dangerous to be a sport, so he eliminated the killing techniques and now we have judo
Gracie said this is cool but he was bad at throwing so decided submissions and guard pulling are what matters the most, so we have Brazilian jiujitsu
Then danaher comes along and says bjj is good but its lacking, so he ditches the gi and adds leglocks and takedowns, now we have submission grappling or simply jiujitsu if you prefer
But bjj faggots are so insecure they keep going NO NO NO ITS STILL BJJ STOP IT YOUR CHANGES DONT MATTER REEEE!!

The fact is there are white belts today with superior understanding of leg entanglements than people that got their black belts 10 years ago
How can you say it's the same martial art at this point
My logic is flawless, deal with it

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 17:58:13 UTC No. 146763

>>146761
Usage rules the day. People who never train in a gi and leglock all day and have never met a Brazilian call it BJJ so it's BJJ. There is no true definition because all terms are defined by usage. Ask a linguist. Deal with it.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 18:24:27 UTC No. 146765

>>146763
You're just not realizing that you're living in a paradigm shift right now
More and more people everyday are just using jiujitsu as generic term, they aren't saying Brazilian jiujitsu anymore especially the strictly nogi people

I'm going to keep harping on the fact that when a 6 month white belt is tapping out a 15 year blackbelt with leg locks they are not doing the same grappling art anymore. There is a significant knowledge gap that goes beyond individual ability, it's the art that's lacking

A 15 year judo black belt will throw a 6 month white belt through the floor every single time, of 15 year wrestler will effortlessly pin a 6 month wrestler in 2 seconds every single time

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 22:59:30 UTC No. 146806

>>146640
u wot m8?

BJJ is popular, but it's still nowhere near as widespread as wrestling or judo. Judo is practiced in over 150 countries. You go to some random town in Uzbekistan, they'll know what judo is but not BJJ.

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 23:19:36 UTC No. 146807

>>146806
I live in a random town in Poland and there is a bjj gym but no judo gym, except a children's club

Anonymous at Wed, 17 May 2023 23:38:21 UTC No. 146811

>>146806
Not him but he's probably talking about his own experience (in an English-speaking country). I've heard BJJ is way more popular in the US, I can vouch for it is in Australia by a mile. That would leave the only English-speaking countries as Britain and Canada where it could be more popular, though a quick Google search tells me they aren't (I don't trust Jewgle though, so probably need someone who trains both in England or Canada to confirm). Judo is in more third-world and poor countries, but you don't usually have them posting on boards other than /pol/.

>>146761
Eddie Bravo ditched the gi and popularised leglocks in BJJ far before Danaher did, and Danaher doesn't even place that much importance on takedowns, it's just that he takes former wrestlers. A lot of his competitors are guard pullers (including Gordan Ryan). He is a great coach though, I'd say he optimised a flow-chart system, but those changes happened far before him.

>now we have submission grappling or simply jiujitsu if you prefer
Don't be a weeb, it's submission grappling if anything. Jiujitsu is already it's own art. If it doesn't have strikes, it's not Jiujitsu.

Anonymous at Thu, 18 May 2023 02:01:09 UTC No. 146828

>>146811
Eddie is actually an important figure here that proves the point, he considers 10th planet to be it's own thing
Having a black belt in one only gets you a brown belt in the other so its treated as something similar but distinctly it's own

Anonymous at Thu, 18 May 2023 06:34:57 UTC No. 146837

>>146828
As time goes on 10th planet will become like gjj, just a particular brand. Probably the main reason he considers it different is that in 10th planet you can be promoted without gi shit whilst traditionally you have to do gi shit to be promoted. However as more and more people become nogi exclusive you will probably find that black belts in 10th planet become equivalent to black belts in BJJ. This however does pose an interesting problem for the IBJJF, as you now have two different types of black belts, yesgi and nogi, but we will cross that bridge when we come to it

Anonymous at Mon, 5 Jun 2023 09:35:49 UTC No. 149990

Ok

Anonymous at Mon, 5 Jun 2023 17:10:41 UTC No. 150049

>>146765
You're completely right

"Brazilian" is being dropped in favor of the generic "jiujitsu" term as recognition that USA is slowly replacing Brazil as the JJ "center" in terms of economics and culture (but less so, for now)

Additionally, Brazilians are less willing to let go of the old school gi / pull guard style

I'm not even biased here since I think both sides are fags, Gi is fun and not unrealistic, pulling guard is retarded, leglocks are effective but don't interest me, and require bottom position to execute so automatically suck

I just do Judo and cross train gi/nogi JJ to keep my leg grab defenses sharp, I think this is the best combination desu

Anonymous at Mon, 5 Jun 2023 18:29:57 UTC No. 150057

Judo > BJJ

Anonymous at Mon, 5 Jun 2023 18:34:03 UTC No. 150058

>>150057
>no leg locks
>no leg takedowns and generally weird rules
No

Anonymous at Mon, 5 Jun 2023 19:04:49 UTC No. 150065

>>150057
True
>>150058
You don't need leg takedowns, only need to defend against them. after 8 years of Judo and 1st dan, I jumped into gi and nogi jiujitsu on the side. I simply don't get taken down, especially in gi. Not worried about leg attacks, I stand upright like usual and if they get on a leg they get countered, simple as. Yes this works on actual wrestlers too. I only have issues with successful college level wrestlers, and they're on another level of athlete. I could've been wrestling this whole time and would still lose to them anyway

Anonymous at Mon, 5 Jun 2023 19:27:29 UTC No. 150068

>>150058
You're conflating the sport of judo with the martial art of judo
Any technique of any actual fighting value in BJJ is present in judo, that's where it was taken from

Just a side note, where the hell did this idea that Brazilian jujitsu was ever a really dominant fighting art come from?
The gracies have always been mid tier fighters, none of them were ever exceptional in the ring

It's like people took what royce did in UFC one where he beat up 3 random literally who's his brother picked out as some kind of a mandate that this jiujitsu style was the ultimate martial art
The meta of wrestling heavy top pressure we are seeing take over MMA and submission grappling in general in recent years is basically people undoing the propaganda that bjj put into the world

It was a good thing in the sense that it got more people interested in training so you have more minds working on improving martial arts, but the further we go more and more people are realizing this BJJ shit doesn't work too well
Out of the 4 main grappling arts BJJ, judo, sambo, wrestling it's clear that BJJ is the most incomplete of them and if you only have the ability to learn one it is not the one you should be doing

Anonymous at Mon, 5 Jun 2023 19:53:25 UTC No. 150071

>>150068
Yet much more MMA champions do bjj and wrestling than judo

Anonymous at Mon, 5 Jun 2023 19:59:02 UTC No. 150073

>>150071
Because judo has a legitimate professional circuit
Wrestlers need something to do after college, and bjj still isnt a realistic way to make a living so MMA is the outlet
The little prizes, $500 here, $1000 there for bjj
Theres a reason bjj athletes live in sleeping bags on the mats in their gyms

Anonymous at Thu, 15 Jun 2023 18:17:54 UTC No. 151516

>>146605
bjj has good marketing. They are the porn site sex ads of the grappling world if you will.

Anonymous at Thu, 15 Jun 2023 18:50:39 UTC No. 151523

>>146806
There's next to no judo in the US. Ignoring the "u wot m8", I could tell you're a yuropeein because you think judo is widespread.

Anonymous at Thu, 15 Jun 2023 18:52:29 UTC No. 151524

>>146828
10th planet can't even win its own competitions it designed to give it an edge. They were raped to death by the danaher guys both physically and spiritually and have been in decline ever since.

Anonymous at Thu, 15 Jun 2023 18:55:01 UTC No. 151526

>>150058
Can you even imagine being a judo cuck

We can do more of their sport in BJJ than they can in judo comps lol

Anonymous at Thu, 15 Jun 2023 20:31:25 UTC No. 151542

>>151526
it's weird, why are bjj guys so insecure and feel the need to talk shit, especially when most of them are just white and blue belts?

over the years for example I've never met someone that did muay thai that looks down on others that aren't doing it, they're always bros
but you know who looks down on others? people doing bullshit like american kempo or krav maga or wing chun, like the objectively fake things
It's insecurity I'm sure
so I gotta wonder why people doing bjj are so insecure

Anonymous at Thu, 15 Jun 2023 21:19:14 UTC No. 151550

>>151542
No one is more elitist than judoka

Anonymous at Thu, 15 Jun 2023 22:02:09 UTC No. 151553

>>151550
at the end of the day bjj only even exists because people couldn't cut it at judo and decided to make their own sport out of it

Anonymous at Fri, 16 Jun 2023 02:23:53 UTC No. 151571

>>151523
The USA =/= the world

Anonymous at Fri, 16 Jun 2023 05:42:29 UTC No. 151589

>>146605
a Street fight, The wrestler and judoka literally pick up the bjj fags trying to armbar and slam them into the fucking pavement

Anonymous at Sat, 17 Jun 2023 06:21:17 UTC No. 151743

bjj black belt here, coach at MMA gym w/ multiple UFC champions over the years.

Wrestling is substantially better for fighting, no question. BJJ is more fun for most people (lower risk of injury as well).

Doesn't matter for me though, neck is so trashed I can't really train (but especially not wrestling). Just coach at this point.

If you want a hobby, you should probably pick what is most fun for you. Don't base it on some weird self-defense/offense fantasy. Fighting is a waste of time. Terrible choice in nearly all cases. One of our pros quit his six figure job to focus more on fighting lol.

🗑️ Anonymous at Sun, 2 Jul 2023 09:04:59 UTC No. 154351

>>146605
Ok

Anonymous at Sun, 2 Jul 2023 21:00:49 UTC No. 154410

>>146635
this plus
>It Appears My Superiority Has Led to Some Controversy
Like, the entire martial arts scene is in a really bad place right now.

If you don't want to fight MMA, boxing (including Thai boxing) has been dead for decades besides influencer fights due to the bad reputation for head injuries and absence of a young Mike Tyson promoting the sport, judo's been dead since its inception for everything besides children because no one knows what the fuck it is and those that do are forced to assume your judo school is (probably correctly) just a McDojo teaching karate. Real non-fake wrestling is so beyond dead that unless you're Russian, nogi BJJ is the last place you can take your skills and actually eek a meager career and find competitors.

They're all dead Jim. The only combat sport that's healthy and thriving right now is BJJ. And this makes other combatfrens cope and seethe.

Anonymous at Sun, 2 Jul 2023 21:17:01 UTC No. 154413

>>151743
A man of quality and reason. A shame you'll be disregarded for the retard judo fags or other anti-crapplers that infest this board.

Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jul 2023 08:30:46 UTC No. 155567

>>146605
Ok

Anonymous at Wed, 12 Jul 2023 09:33:14 UTC No. 155818

>>146605
>2. Bjj submissions can end a fight and wrestling pins can't. Of course pinning someone down gives you a huge advantage but sometimes wrestlers land in guard and don't know what to do next.
smashing someone to the ground and breaking his skull will end the fight much faster than doing a submission

Anonymous at Sat, 15 Jul 2023 03:17:51 UTC No. 156369

>>155818
>he fell for wrestling being enough
>he fell for the gi meme when he could've got wrestling and submission grappling at the same time
NGMI