Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 00:10:09 UTC No. 151058

A combination of unrealistic expectations and the people selling it not dispelling the fiction around it

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 00:22:41 UTC No. 151061

Whatever actuality existed in them was wiped out from several wars, genocides, and otherwise exodus causing events in China over the last ~200 years. Maybe they'll reclaim their glory one day, but most of them barely understand the tenants they claim to hold fast. See: the average boxer understanding that protecting the centerline is better achieved by moving.

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 00:33:33 UTC No. 151064

>>151056
>Why do so many people shit on Chinese martial arts
Because fighting has been figured out through decades of practical competition in the ring by boxers / Thai fighters, grapplers, etc...

If Chink "martial arts" were actually worth a fuck, they would have been adopted and used in the ring to dominate the other styles. They haven't, and never will. Same goes for "traditional" Jap arts, like Aikido, et al...

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 00:48:30 UTC No. 151066

>>151064
>Thai
Siam was just a tributary of china anyway, muay thai is basically kung fu with an arbitrary boarder drawn through it

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 02:12:34 UTC No. 151077

>>151066
No, muay thai is basically western boxing with kicking, knees, elbows included, and they actually spar and fight. Most Chinese kung fu shit doesn't involve actual sparring or fighting, which is why it's a fucking joke.

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 02:43:26 UTC No. 151080

>>151056
Most people respect Sanda and Shuai Jiao. Basically anything that's practiced as a competitive sport gets the most respect, as long as the rules are reasonably realistic. Barring that, stuff where people actually spar and train with aliveness gets respect. Many Chinese martial arts became disconnected from both, though there are exceptions.

That said, I think plenty of people do respect even the less practical stuff. People appreciate wushu form performances even though it's not practical preparation for fighting. As long as people don't have illusions about what they're doing or sell it as more than it is.

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 02:55:12 UTC No. 151082

>>151077
Shaolin Fist is the ancestor of all modern martial arts including Muay Thai, Taekwondo and Karate. It influenced western boxing and even wrestling especially when it comes to conditioning and training mentality. You’re free to compare any modern combat sport to Shaolin Fist, it still holds up rather well despite being so outdated. Less than two hundred years ago Shaolin Fist was the best martial art in the world. Everybody in the martial art community knew that and many openly admitted it in their books. Jigoro Kano and Gichin Funakoshi were hugely influenced by it just like the creators of Muay Thai were. Nobody is claiming it can beat modern MMA but neither can wrestling or boxing from 200 years ago. But the difference is, Shaolin martial arts have more in the bag, secrets that have not been revealed to outsiders. Outsiders only know how it looks on the outside. They copied the stances, the moves, some outer techniques, all which we can see in Karate and Muay Thai, but that was only part of the secret, the visible part.
https://youtu.be/RblW8-lU_rU

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 02:57:19 UTC No. 151083

>>151077
Western kickboxing is just karate though
There was no kickboxing tradition in the west, it was imported
K1 was just a bunch of karate guys and it eventually just became it's own sport over time

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 03:29:37 UTC No. 151084

>>151083
>Western kickboxing is just karate though
The punching mechanics, stance, counters, and training methods are completely different. The kicks are the only things similar.

>>151082
>shaolin fist
Stopped reading there...

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 03:32:46 UTC No. 151086

>>151084

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 03:41:58 UTC No. 151087

>>151084
Now that it has been further refined. As a sport evolves a meta emerges
Go back 40 years and they were doing karate and it was very free wheeling while they figured out what worked exactly
https://youtu.be/XJorSdw6_As

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 03:46:00 UTC No. 151088

>>151056
So much of Chinese martial arts is preservation. People maintaining a living link to the past. In the past Chinese martial arts were paired with weapons training, religious practices, exercise, folk wrestling and was really woven into the culture. Today it survives in a piecemeal fashion, often taught by people with a poor understanding of it, or no interest in fighting itself, but just the art. Most people are not looking for that, and most people who just want to fight and learn about fighting are not looking for that, but without a lot of those kind of people your not going to be producing many "fighters"

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 10:05:08 UTC No. 151117

>>151056
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7aou_K7KgtQ&pp=ygUUY2VudGVybGluZSB3aW5nIGNodW4%3D

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 11:09:52 UTC No. 151119

Governments exterminated the martial components and made them performance arts.

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 11:58:45 UTC No. 151126

>>151082
Nice b8 retard.

Anonymous at Tue, 13 Jun 2023 12:57:25 UTC No. 151133

>>151082
>Western wrestling was influenced by shaolin fist
Are you dumb?

Anonymous at Wed, 14 Jun 2023 00:21:29 UTC No. 151227

>>151082
>Shaolin Fist is the ancestor of all modern martial arts including Muay Thai, Taekwondo and Karate.
I wish we were in the 90s when people believed that.

Anonymous at Wed, 14 Jun 2023 02:30:44 UTC No. 151242

>>151117
This guy is onions

>>151056
Sanda doesn't belong with the rest of that list

Anonymous at Wed, 14 Jun 2023 03:29:00 UTC No. 151247

>>151227
There's some truth to it. Karate originated from Chinese martial arts being introduced to the Ryukyu Islands. It was originally "Chinese hand" (唐手), then they changed how it was written to mean "Empty hand" ("空手") in 1935 when Japan was invading China.

Anonymous at Wed, 14 Jun 2023 15:26:42 UTC No. 151305

>>151056
>Man comes into judo class
>His experience is a bunch of Kung Fu
>Throwing Kung Fu hands
>Getting thrown
>Pissing people off because clumsy, and low-key striking people when he grabs grips, in a grapple session
I feel like the absolute worst Kung fu-ers are cringe lords
Where as the worst judo guys are more a case of tryhards, rather than genuinely unskilled/bad people

Anonymous at Wed, 14 Jun 2023 15:28:25 UTC No. 151306

>>151082
In case you aren't memeing
>Pankration
>Olive oil Greco wrassling

Anonymous at Wed, 14 Jun 2023 15:29:46 UTC No. 151307

>>151056
Caveat, I could be totally ass-backwards about all of this, but here are my personal impressions: here in the West, kung fu was popular with the same Aquarius set that was into new-age spiritualism, yoga, tofu, and Buddhism back in the 70s/80s. So I think the backlash is cultural, the crowd who wants to be progressive and enlightened versus the "practical minded" crowd that wants objective, demonstrable truth about fighting effectively. It's irreconcilable because one side wants to discover some "higher truth" and the other side thinks they're delusional.

In China, my understanding is that transitional Chinese martial arts are all wrapped up in the CCP's gung-ho nationalism. Dissident Chinese citizens resent that because they don't want to be tied to bullshit. Hence you've got guys like Xu Xiaodong.

I read a really good article years ago about the "old vs new" issue in Chinese martial arts and there was an interview segment with an old kung fu master who actually sided with the MMA guys because he was old enough to remember when rooftop duels were a thing and resented the propaganda bullshit the CCP was laying over martial arts. Wish I could find it.

Anonymous at Wed, 14 Jun 2023 15:32:02 UTC No. 151309

>>151056
Because Arts like Wing Chun talk big game about how effective they are but especially for Wing Chun you find not a single (1!) video of a guy using his actual style and win against anyone. And every single time someone brings up a video of a Wing Chun guy kicking ass it is a guy who clearly does not use anything WT related.
This "better than you" attitude combined with them always loosing against anyone who trained Judo/Wrestling or boxing for a year or less rubs people the wrong way.

Anonymous at Wed, 14 Jun 2023 16:50:05 UTC No. 151320

>>151309
The best part of that attitude is that they also display it with each other. William Cheung guys feuding with Emin Boztepe guys. Moy Yat guys all being cult members at best. Traditional vs Modifed. WC vs JKD. All fighting over who's Ip Man's best, and then ignoring every other non Ip Man WC. An entire religion of literal slap fighting.

Anonymous at Thu, 15 Jun 2023 01:42:59 UTC No. 151386

what can I say? I was told they're a meme and I just went with it because im weak minded, I've never actually tested or researched it

Anonymous at Thu, 15 Jun 2023 05:51:12 UTC No. 151417

I recently got into a "Shaolin Ving Tsun" school and the instructor and grandmaster are both incredibly down-to-earth guys who have a very realistic outlook on Wing Chun, other martial arts and its applications. They encourage cross-training and regularly do actual sparring. Grandmaster made a very clear point to the new students that it isn't some magical kung fu nonsense that will let you get into a knife fight unscathed, and that the best thing to do is give them your wallet and haul ass. What they're teaching at my school seems to have some proper technique, shit hurts like hell; my arms are quite bruised up from the simple "Pak Sau" or however it's called.

To answer your question, OP? Most instructors, grandmasters, etc have a very aggrandized view of grandeur when it comes to their martial art and ignore the downsides, or how it doesn't mesh well with other martial arts. They ignore how long it takes to become even remotely proficient, when you could spend the same amount of time in something like Kickboxing and get much better results. They too often are high off their own farts.

Anonymous at Thu, 15 Jun 2023 05:54:23 UTC No. 151419

>>151307
>Xu Xiaodong
God bless that man, honestly. Mildly concerning I haven't seen anything about him in two years, though. Hope he's still fighting the good fight.

Anonymous at Thu, 15 Jun 2023 12:36:06 UTC No. 151460

>>151056
I wish Bajiquan was an efficient style, it's very aesthetically pleasing

Anonymous at Thu, 15 Jun 2023 12:50:50 UTC No. 151464

>>151417
>things that didn’t happen

Anonymous at Thu, 15 Jun 2023 20:22:55 UTC No. 151541

>>151464
I mean, I was surprised, too. It's why I chose them over a resident Tang Soo Do school.

Anonymous at Fri, 16 Jun 2023 03:38:17 UTC No. 151581

>>151083
>Western kickboxing is just karate though
There was no kickboxing tradition in the west.
Aside from savate you mean.

Anonymous at Fri, 16 Jun 2023 04:08:54 UTC No. 151584

>>151581
>There was no kickboxing tradition in the west
exactly, karate was the striking style of choice and that evolved into kickboxing
like when people say american kickboxing, that's like 50 or less years old, it was just guys doing different styles of karate competing with each other and it developed into it's own meta

Anonymous at Fri, 16 Jun 2023 12:32:59 UTC No. 151624

>why do so many people shit so much on chinese martial arts
The lack of serious sparring is the biggest problem here, everything works if the opponent is passive and also the teachers are out of shape and seem to have learned by watching movies. I feel like there are a lot more kung fu freaks than other fights, people watch movies and really believe in KI or other spiritual shit.

Now, shaolin and sanda are taken seriously, although sanda's rules will drive him to the hole, the fights are basically turning into sumo matches where it pays more to push off the leitai than to fight.

>>151584
You need to take into account that gun control in china/japan was much greater than in europe/americas, in the west fights have focused on melee weapons and mainly firearms in the last 300 years, it is natural for unarmed fighting to have become a sport while self-defense took place armed.

🗑️ Anonymous at Fri, 16 Jun 2023 17:51:12 UTC No. 151661

>>151061
>>151307
>Whatever actuality existed in them was wiped out from several wars, genocides, and otherwise exodus causing events in China over the last ~200 years.

Wrong retards. The fraud martial artists claiming fake lineages and using force like chi boxing ARE traditional (as in they existed in traditional China for centuries)

China, India and Japan always had frauds claiming to be gurus and inventing new lineages and putting fake fictional masters un those lineages for centuries.

Japan is fact is the one that destroyed most of its traditional culture in the Meiji restoration and modernised and westernised martial arts (the belt and racing system which don't exist in traditional martial arts)

Japanese martial artists had to eliminate tons of fraudulent useless moves from karate and other martial arts when "modernising" it in the early 1900s.

Karate originated from Chinese Shaolin martial arts centuries ago.

Anonymous at Fri, 16 Jun 2023 17:56:29 UTC No. 151662

>>151061
>>151307
>Whatever actuality existed in them was wiped out from several wars, genocides, and otherwise exodus causing events in China over the last ~200 years.

Wrong retards. The fraud martial artists claiming fake lineages and using force like chi boxing ARE traditional (as in they existed in traditional China for centuries alongside actual known marrial arts centers)

China, India and Japan always had frauds claiming to be gurus and inventing new lineages and putting fake fictional masters un those lineages for centuries.

Japan is fact is the one that destroyed most of its traditional culture in the Meiji restoration and modernised and westernised martial arts (the belt and ranking system which don't exist in traditional martial arts)

Japanese martial artists had to eliminate tons of fraudulent useless moves from karate and other martial arts when "modernising" it in the early 1900s.

Karate originated from Chinese Shaolin martial arts centuries ago.

Koreans invented taekwondo only in the 20th century and adopted the modern belt system from modern karate.

Traditional martial arts had no belts pr ranks like that, only lineages (dozens of which were frequently made up by new people)

Japan destroyed its traditional culture in the Meiii restoration forcing everyone to eat western food like dairy and beef and use western clothes and architecture and destroyed tens of thousands of old Japanese buildings and artifacts.

Anonymous at Fri, 16 Jun 2023 17:59:12 UTC No. 151664

>>151624
Gun control was more thorough in Japan than in China until the 1950s.

Japan's Tokugawa effectively imposed gun control in the 1600s but every Chinese peasant villages had muskets until the 1950s.

Chinese peasants had way more reliance on firearms than Japanese ones.

And Japanese peasants weren't allowed to disrespect or fight samurai or they would be killed by the samurai so they mostly didn't practice martial arts.

🗑️ Anonymous at Sun, 25 Jun 2023 01:15:59 UTC No. 153009

∴
∵ ∴ ∴∵∴ ∴
∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∴∵
∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵
∴∵∴∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴
∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵/ ⌒ヽ∴∵∴∵∴
∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵| | |∴∵∴∵
∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∪ / ﾉ∴∵∴∵∴∵
.. ∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵| ||∵∴∵∴∵
.∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∪∪∴∵∴∵∴∵
.∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵:(･)∴∴.(･)∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴
∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴/ ○＼∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴
..∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵/三 | 三ヽ∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵
. ∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵ | ＿_|＿_ ∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵ tanasinn
.∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵| === ∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴
.∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵＼＿＿＿/∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴
..∴∴∵/￣.. ＼∴∵∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴
∴∵∴/ ,. i ∵∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵
∴∵∴| /.| |.∵∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵
∵∴| | :| |.∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴
∴| | |::| |.∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵
∴| | |∵U∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴
| | |∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵

Anonymous at Sun, 25 Jun 2023 09:36:56 UTC No. 153026

>>151662
>communism didn't kill a bunch of Chinese martial arts
Sure thing Mao.

Anonymous at Mon, 26 Jun 2023 04:48:26 UTC No. 153204

>>151584
>like when people say american kickboxing
American kickboxing is trash and usually not what fighters are referring to when they say kickboxing. Stephen Thompson being the exception, everyone means dutch kickboxing or thai boxing.
t. kickboxer

🗑️ Iraqi suphamsulu on reddit AntiMajoosUnit QutaybabnMuslim on Twitter orgasm123456789 at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 03:41:39 UTC No. 154167

>>153026
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/15158610/#q15158610

>>>/his/15158610
Japanese destroyed their own castles during the Meiji restoration on orders from the Meiji emperor. Decades later,concrete copies with elevators are built for dumb tourists.

Japanese smashes and destroyed tens of thousands of Buddhist temples, texts and shrines in Shinbutsu Bunri.

Japanese destroyed tens of thousands of old shinto shrines in the Shrine consolidation policy and created new fake shinto shrines like 15 shrines of the kenmu restoration.

Japanese were violently forced to stop wearing traditional haircuts and traditional clothes and change their entire traditional cuisine (stop eating wild dogs and cats and started eating beef and drinking milk).

Majority of Japanese cremate the dead after copying the west.

The defining book on Japanese Bushido was written by a Japanese protestant and sent to the Jewish backed Theodore Roosevelt (friends with Jacob Schiff who bailed out Japan against Russia) to romanticise Japan.

Japan funded itself by mass prostitution of Japanese girls (karayuki san) to Chinese men and westerners.

Chinese cities like Xi'an and Pingyao retain their entire traditional medieval walls and medieval temples and houses.

Chinese Daoist priests continously wore traditional Hanfu clerical robes (Daopao) through the entire Qing dynasty up to today when doing religiois ceremonies, there's no break in tradition, it's not larpers making reconstructions (the girls wearing Hanfu reconstructions for fashion are different people)

Qing dynasty never outlawed Hanfu for non-officials, only government officials were required to wear banner clothes (qizhuang), Han Daoist priests in the Qing always continuously wore Hanfu robes.

Mandarin language is the same as its Ming dynasty form (Manchu is phonological more similar to Cantonese than Mandarin).

The first ever Manchu (Jurchen) war in history was the Toi pirate raids where Jurchens mass raped Japanese girls.

Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 03:52:49 UTC No. 154170

>>153026
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/15158610/#q15158610

>>>/his/15158610
Japanese destroyed their own castles during the Meiji restoration on orders from the Meiji emperor. Decades later,concrete copies with elevators are built for dumb tourists.

Japanese smashes and destroyed tens of thousands of Buddhist temples, texts and shrines in Shinbutsu Bunri.

Japanese destroyed tens of thousands of old shinto shrines in the Shrine consolidation policy and created new fake shinto shrines like 15 shrines of the kenmu restoration.

Japanese were violently forced to stop wearing traditional haircuts and traditional clothes and change their entire traditional cuisine (stop eating wild dogs and cats and started eating beef and drinking milk).

Majority of Japanese cremate the dead after copying the west.

The defining book on Japanese Bushido was written by a Japanese protestant and sent to the Jewish backed Theodore Roosevelt (friends with Jacob Schiff who bailed out Japan against Russia) to romanticise Japan.

Japan funded itself by mass prostitution of Japanese girls (karayuki san) to Chinese men and westerners.

Chinese cities like Xi'an and Pingyao retain their entire traditional medieval walls and medieval temples and houses.

Chinese Daoist priests continously wore traditional Hanfu clerical robes (Daopao) through the entire Qing dynasty up to today when doing religiois ceremonies, there's no break in tradition, it's not larpers making reconstructions (the girls wearing Hanfu reconstructions for fashion are different people)

Qing dynasty never outlawed Hanfu for non-officials, only government officials were required to wear banner clothes (qizhuang), Han Daoist priests in the Qing always continuously wore Hanfu robes.

Mandarin language is the same as its Ming dynasty form (Manchu is phonological more similar to Cantonese than Mandarin).

The first ever Manchu (Jurchen) war in history was the Toi pirate raids where Jurchens mass raped Japanese girls.

Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 03:55:38 UTC No. 154172

>>153204
dutch kickboxing is based on karate also

Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 04:15:55 UTC No. 154176

>>154172
Dutch kickboxing looks nothing like karate and uses literally no karate techniques, but sure

Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 04:26:44 UTC No. 154179

>>151662
>>154170
Please type “tiananmen square massacre.”

Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 04:45:56 UTC No. 154181

>>151419
I looked at his YouTube channel just the other day, he's still uploading videos. Of course it's all in Mandarin, so I have no idea what he's talking about.

Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 05:19:45 UTC No. 154183

>>154176
>>154172
It is based on karate, but not the same karate. Like Jap kickboxing its karate influence is kyokushin.

Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 05:28:36 UTC No. 154187

>>151056
Because it's a scam.

Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 05:47:06 UTC No. 154191

>>154183
>Like Jap kickboxing its karate influence is kyokushin.
No. Just because the ruleset allows kicks to the legs doesn't mean dutch kickboxing uses karate techniques.

Anonymous at Sat, 1 Jul 2023 07:40:33 UTC No. 154211

Found a place that trains sanda, shaolin and ryu kempo. They also do sparing and have a good tournament team. Is it worth checking out?

Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jul 2023 15:19:11 UTC No. 155459

>>151056
point to 5 news stories where someone used their karate to stop a crime

Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jul 2023 15:20:54 UTC No. 155460

Because it broke my heart.

Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jul 2023 15:35:35 UTC No. 155464

>>151056
I'm repeating what people says, not my words.
They say that you need too much luck and conditions to use it in a real life fight in the street.

Anonymous at Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:11:55 UTC No. 157301

Animal style kung fu