🧵 Untitled Thread
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 13:38:06 UTC No. 151940
What is the future of BJJ? When will it peak popularity wise?
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 13:46:02 UTC No. 151942
>>151940
>there will be less people doing gi
>heel hooks will be legal
>guard pulling will be illegal
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 13:55:08 UTC No. 151944
>>151940
Hard to say. I thought the gi scene would be dead by now but it's still going.
I expect some boring nogi matches for perpetuity unless they add rules to fix on the feet stalling. There's a reason wrestling has its rules.
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 15:20:36 UTC No. 151950
I would say it already peaked. It has been exposed for its inadequacies and is being modernized in a way that you cant even call it bjj anymore
I believe the line has already been crossed
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 17:29:58 UTC No. 151971
>>151950
All of the proposed new names suck though.
> We so submission grappling here.
> It's AMERICAN juijitsu now.
If you simply must slight the hue's, just call it juijitsu.
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 17:57:31 UTC No. 151973
>>151971
That's fine, but American jiujitsu is fine too
It's a style, Brazilian jiujitsu is butt scooting, grabbing your knees and presenting your bucci for daddy, American jiujitsu is wrestling leglocks and top riding
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 19:15:05 UTC No. 151986
>>151983
Honestly $300 for an 8 week program is s pretty good deal
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 19:16:50 UTC No. 151987
>>151940
Ok
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 20:18:22 UTC No. 152003
Once it fully embraces certain slams, it's just back to being Catch. The main difference will be not being able to win by pure pin, points aside.
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 20:22:01 UTC No. 152004
>>152003
The second main difference is it will still exist ;^)
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 20:30:19 UTC No. 152006
>>152004
Caterpillars have to always exist. Otherwise the butterfly can't come back.
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 22:25:09 UTC No. 152015
>>151940
>What is the future of BJJ?
A few things
>The devouring of wrestling and judo by a transition to equal 50/50 focus on stand-up game
BJJ is currently heavily focused on groundwork but it's likely that the focus is going to move to standing game
>stronger escapes by standing up
>immediately can secure top position and completely circumvent the "hierarchy of positions" when won
>pulling guard is falling out of favor in rule-sets due to pressure from eg ADCC
>most people are bad at standup game right now so leading competitors are going to train this for an edge
Expect to see much more even divisions of standing and ground-game.
>Massive growth in young elementary to college competitors and viewership
This will accelerate generationally. CTE injuries in football and other currently popular sports are really concerning to parents, and BJJ has remarkably low injury rates. People use their children to vote with their feet.
>Professionalisation of the spectating experience
BJJ is big business, but the spectating experience is really bad now, it's mostly far distance rolling vids on iPhones even at big tournaments, and even for the pros it's hard to watch fights. BJJ COULD be watcheable but right now it's not.
I expect to see professionalization of the viewing experience to capitalize on growth, including
>making positions comprehensible to the public, with high-def slo-mo footage, instant replay, and 3D pan-arounds to showcase key moments and attempts
>Teams will become more "league-like" based on regionality than they currently are to tap into mass-market appeal
>A focus on the players is essential to get the audience invested
>The sport needs a stats arm similar to the sabermetrics happening in baseball, basketball, and football
Which leads into
>The sport's teams and leagues are going to begin seeking out corporate branding and sponsorship
All of the above costs money, and if kids are into it and the audience is there, brands will want in
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 23:05:50 UTC No. 152027
>>152015
I expect a fair amount of that growth is going to be coming from the oft lamented lack of adult wrestling avenues. Once people see that they'll not only be doing something similar, but as you said the increasing importance of standing game which they already have way more familiarity with.
Anonymous at Sun, 18 Jun 2023 23:30:09 UTC No. 152032
>>152015
But would they do any of that? They make a ton of money and don't have to pay the athletes anything, It will continue to be big business just by putting on tournaments
The athletes are cucks, they are not just content to work for free, they're content to PAY for entry into things
The pros arent generating revenue, it's the amateurs competing every weekend in their little white belt tournaments
Anonymous at Mon, 19 Jun 2023 21:11:51 UTC No. 152191
>>151940
I feel like there's going to be a merge between the gi BJJ and judo scenes in the US. IBJJF sucks in so many ways, and all the American judo guys dabble in gi anyway. Maybe if sambo becomes an Olympic sport, between the leg grabs and leglocks.
Anonymous at Mon, 19 Jun 2023 23:53:32 UTC No. 152214
>>152015
You're insane. I've been training since '02 and no one in my family can stomach my matches without fast forwarding. It will never ever ever be spectator friendly. Hell, even wrestling almost got kicked out of the olmpics for being unwatchable.
Which is another concern. All real teams are training up wrestling right now, but BJJ has no objective stalling rules. Expect things to get worse vis-a-vis boredom.
Anonymous at Tue, 20 Jun 2023 02:40:49 UTC No. 152230
>>152214
>even wrestling almost got kicked out of the olmpics for being unwatchable.
They unironically got rid of it for woke-points, and they brought it back because everyone realized removing it was retarded and wrestling is based.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrest
>OC members voted to remove wrestling from the Olympic programme
>The New York Times cited several potential factors in the decision, including the lack of universally-known talent unlike other sports, and concern for the lack of women's competitions in wrestling (having only introduced women's freestyle competitions in 2004)
We've also come a long way on tools to improve spectation, many of which you're already seeing in eg. Football
>drones for all-around vision and close-ups
>ML for player highlighting, body position detection, and 3D multi-angle reconstruction
>Massive improvements in general camera quality
>real time 3D point mapping via LIDAR and reflected IR
BJJ has a lot of the juice that wrestling needs to appeal to spectators - all the joy of wrestling, but now with flashy takedowns and bloodsports if subs are cranked or people are choked unconscious.
> BJJ has no objective stalling rules. Expect things to get worse vis-a-vis boredom.
That's a ruleset question, people can tinker and find something that gets a knock-down drag-out brawl. Perhaps sub onlyaward points for attempted subs that last longer than 3 seconds, penalize guard pulls massively, and eliminate both competitors if someone doesn't get a sub in 20 minutes and someone isn't like 5 points up.
Anonymous at Tue, 20 Jun 2023 03:19:35 UTC No. 152233
>>151940
It is already in decline. People are starting to wake up to the fact that BJJ & submission grappling in general, is gay as fuck to engage in & boring as hell.
Anonymous at Tue, 20 Jun 2023 04:48:00 UTC No. 152239
>>152230
I've said it before, sitting or pulling guard gives the opponent 3 points right out of the gate
if you do that you are conceding a takedown, the extra point is punitive punishment so you can't just sweep to reset back to effectively 0-0
if someone thinks they're going to be cute and get around this by intentionally failing sacrifice throws it will be referee discretion if that's what's happening and then those penalty points will add up quickly
I'm open to suggestions on a more objective way to police this
second if you are playing guard, get picked up above the hips of your opponent, and placed back down to the mat he gets 2 points
if not for the rules in place to protect the athletes you would've been slammed, so he effectively took you down again, you had the chance to stand and engage but chose to continue to be passive
3rd if one person is down and the other is up, the one that's down is expected to stand if the person on their feet doesn't want to start passing
guard is a defensive posture so the onus is on the guard player to stand and engage in offensive play
4th ties go to sudden death and start from the feet, so it in essence becomes first takedown wins since guard pulling is off the table
also considering the idea of the type of throw carrying more points
takedowns that grab the legs are worth 2, takedowns that only use upper body grips get 3. you should be rewarded for pulling off something more difficult
would also make changes to what scores for back control as well, body triangles and post back mounts should score as well. Hooks are just one of many different ways to control the back
Anonymous at Tue, 20 Jun 2023 12:46:24 UTC No. 152269
>>152239
>pulling is -3
But why tho? Were you bullied by a pack of guard players as a kid?
-2 makes sense; a takedown penalizes you for falling on your back. A sweep penalizes you for falling on your back. This seems punitive for its own sake.
My solution is even more retarded tho; get rid of sweep points, and do an mma style stand up for nonengagement with a grounded opponent. Think about it. How many fucking sweeps do we see in mma? Barely any.
Naturally this means more ties as there are fewer points; ties are decided by top time (who was in guard or on top the longest). Gets rid of stalling the match to try and win in OT.
This also means we need to fix both dudes on the feet stalling. Shot clock is really cool, but I'm out of my depth as a simple jiu jitsu man.
Anonymous at Tue, 20 Jun 2023 13:37:09 UTC No. 152278
>>152239
>sitting or pulling guard gives the opponent 3 points right out of the gate
Retarded. Watching shitty BJJ-level wrestling is worse than watching someone trying to pass guard. ADCC penalizes guard pulling and the result is often a long match where two idiots exchange collar ties because they don't want to get guillotined
Anonymous at Tue, 20 Jun 2023 15:50:54 UTC No. 152293
>>152278
>Watching shitty BJJ-level wrestling is worse than watching someone trying to pass guard. ADCC penalizes guard pulling and the result is often a long match where two idiots exchange collar ties because they don't want to get guillotined
Give step out and passivity penalties - either like judo or wrestling. This is a solved problem.
Anonymous at Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:25:31 UTC No. 152306
>>152269
>Were you bullied by a pack of guard players as a kid?
no but I hate them, I hate watching them almost as much as I hate rolling with them
it's a boring waste of time, just stalling
we're here to train, start playing to win instead of playing not to lose
>>152278
>Watching shitty BJJ-level wrestling is worse than watching someone trying to pass guard
their wrestling is shitty because they don't need to do it, once there's emphasis on it they will get better
Anonymous at Sun, 25 Jun 2023 01:55:25 UTC No. 153011
>>151971
In Brazil we just call it just Jiu-Jitsu already.
Anonymous at Sun, 25 Jun 2023 03:33:51 UTC No. 153017
>>151940
I hope to God it stays niche, if it becomes some retarded trend that everyone grabs onto because they want to look cool it'll become retarded. It'll lose its purity.
Anonymous at Sun, 25 Jun 2023 03:46:18 UTC No. 153018
>>153017
it's already over
I know a half dozen people personally that paid for their black belts
there's one guy JT torres gave a black belt too and the dude was a legitimate scam artist
that dude then turned around and was handing them out like nothing. He gave one to a morbidly obese diabetic woman that wasn't even fit enough to do basic warmups
the art has no value anymore. Maybe you're somewhere it hasn't permeated yet, but that combined with how you can buy a blue belt from BJJ fanatics now it really has lost all value
Anonymous at Sun, 25 Jun 2023 03:50:43 UTC No. 153020
>>153018
Thankfully my gym is run by people who are genuine martial artists. Now that I give it a second thought, it doesn't matter if people claim to be blackbelts, the skillset takes too many years to cultivate and understand. It also takes a lot of time outside of the class in addition to traveling quite a bit and meeting people. You can't just slip into it.
Anonymous at Sun, 25 Jun 2023 05:01:07 UTC No. 153022
>>153018
> Buying a belt
Anyone with over 2-4 months in the sport is going to know you're faking it within the first 60 seconds of rolling. And who, outside of other people in the sport, give a shit about your rank? It's self defeating behavior.
Anonymous at Sun, 25 Jun 2023 05:45:31 UTC No. 153023
>>153022
Sorry bro, can't roll anymore
I have a bad back, I just come to hang out and stand over people giving them advice
I mean maybe we can go super light if you want, but I'll just make sure you understand I'm letting you work while I coach you through positions
And it's just that simple