Anonymous at Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:02:13 UTC No. 153162

It's around, and honestly there's no such thing as Brazilian jiujitsu
That's just a marketing term, they're doing the exact same stuff as everybody else

Anonymous at Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:19:43 UTC No. 153171

>>153162
is it just judo with more striking and locks?

Anonymous at Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:43:32 UTC No. 153180

>>153171
technically judo has all that stuff in it, it's just that most places you find are competition oriented so they spend all their time practicing only the tournament legal techniques instead of the complete thing
any judo sensei worth his salt should be familiar with all of that other stuff

Anonymous at Mon, 26 Jun 2023 02:47:19 UTC No. 153181

>>153155
There used to be a danzan ryu jujutsu instructor who taught out of my judo club. It’s not completely retarded like aikido but they never sparred and had unrealistic expectations of what they were actually capable of as a result. There’s a reason jujutsu schools because functionally dead whereas judo prospered.

Just do judo.

Anonymous at Mon, 26 Jun 2023 03:04:07 UTC No. 153186

>>153155
Most schools died or made common cause with Judo, and were essentially absorbed into it. Its a myth that Judo invented sparring, however they did make it a lot saver with a stricter rule set and by modifying the techniques to make them less likely to do damage (provided you can break fall).
Jujutsu was dying when Judo came along. It was associated with street thugs and seen as dangerous and unhealthy. Kano launched a public relations campaign to portray at least his Judo as scientific, healthy and a pillar of good citizenship. He actually kicked out a few students who started unsanctioned challenge matches. He also got in with government officials and unlike most schools focused on branching out quickly. He even recruited jujutsu teachers and just gave them judo ranks. As a result those schools that were not already dead often made common cause with Kano, and were absorbed into judo.
There are a few jujutsu schools around that predate Judo. They are koryu, or old arts from the Edo period and before. A lot of them focus on grappling with weapons or in armor, or preserve older judo-like grappling and esoterica similar to Judo's itsutsu no kata and koshiki no kata, though often better preserved and understood than what you find in modern judo circles.Some don't spar, others do, or primarily recruit from people with judo experience. Most schools calling themselves jujutsu in the west are basically cobbled together from judo, karate, aikido and other arts and are not really "jujutsu" per say.
>>153181
Danzan ryu was founded in Hawaii in the 20th century, by a guy who studied several jujutsu styles and other arts, including early Kodokan Judo. Ironically the founder was famed for beating a boxer and Ive read they used to complete in judo tournaments but it seems most branches stopped sparring at all at some point.

Anonymous at Mon, 26 Jun 2023 03:54:03 UTC No. 153197

>>153186
Based judo historian anon.

Anonymous at Mon, 26 Jun 2023 08:13:23 UTC No. 153226

>>153186
More history lesson anon. I like it.

Anonymous at Mon, 26 Jun 2023 21:41:49 UTC No. 153358

>>153162
>It's around
This. If you live in even a small city, it's still not that hard to find.

Anonymous at Tue, 27 Jun 2023 00:02:02 UTC No. 153381

>>153186
>Most schools calling themselves jujutsu in the west are basically cobbled together from judo, karate, aikido and other arts and are not really "jujutsu" per say.
That is the so-called jiu jitsu, really popular in Europe.
It is an attempt to reverse engineer what was the old jujutsu, as you say from judo, aikido and karate, which is funny since karate is not even "Japanese" martially speaking.
A pastiche they try to sell as traditional versus modern judo. Which is ironic. Give me real judo, with all the kata and techniques that are no longer used and you have traditional jujutsu, with over a century behind it.

Anonymous at Tue, 27 Jun 2023 00:30:25 UTC No. 153388

>>153381
All true, and there are some good authentic styles of jujutsu you can train in the west these days. Those cobbled together systems tend to lack something in comparison.

Anonymous at Tue, 27 Jun 2023 14:43:03 UTC No. 153444

>>153162
>they're doing the exact same stuff as everybody else
No, training methods, class structure and everything else is different, you are retarded

Anonymous at Tue, 27 Jun 2023 15:47:19 UTC No. 153453

>>153186
>hey did make it a lot saver with a stricter rule set and by modifying the techniques to make them less likely to do damage (provided you can break fall).
Yup, when you look at the old manuals for jiujitsu from the 1500's all the techniques are pretty much identical to those found in modern judo with minor changes. Seoi Nage is a great example of this: the old books had you step to the outside to make the throw by hyper extending the elbow, all Kano did was change it to stepping inside. Made it a lot safer to practice.

"Brazilian jiujitsu" is just a variation of Kodokan Judo that Mitsuyo Maeda taught with Gracie marketing hype. At the time there wasn't a strong distinction between "judo" and "jiujitsu" in the west compared to today, so if you want to do "japanese jiujitsu" in the modern day then you'd just do judo.

Anonymous at Tue, 27 Jun 2023 16:19:38 UTC No. 153456

>>153453
>"Brazilian jiujitsu" is just a variation of Kodokan Judo
Meant Kosen Judo not Kodokan

Anonymous at Wed, 28 Jun 2023 17:36:02 UTC No. 153640

>100 years ago
jujutsu is useless, let's do judo
>now
judo is a watered down jujutsu, let's do koryu jujutsu


???

Anonymous at Wed, 28 Jun 2023 17:48:30 UTC No. 153644

>>153640
Kano wanted to preserve a lot of the old jujutsu stuff outside of competition, and he kinda failed. Most judo instructors don't know a lot of the noncompetitive side. If you're interested in stuff like the kime no kata, or the itutsu no kata, you either have to seek out a rare judo instructor who knows that material well, or look for a jujutsu school that preserves similar stuff.

Anonymous at Wed, 28 Jun 2023 18:02:56 UTC No. 153647

>>153644
Truly unfortunate. I'm a lowly buttscooter myself, but I've got a lot of admiration for judo, and I'm enough of a weeb that the old traditional stuff is really interesting to me.

I hope that BJJers looking to improve their standup game leads to an uptick in judo popularity in the US, and hopefully interest in "self defense" leads to dusting off some of the non-competition curriculum of judo as well.

Anonymous at Wed, 28 Jun 2023 18:11:19 UTC No. 153652

>>153640
Particular teachers develop good methods, people flock to it, then bad teachers just go by rote with no deeper understanding and things get shit again. It's literally the hard times-good men-easy times-bad men meme. It's just labeled differently.

Anonymous at Thu, 29 Jun 2023 10:28:25 UTC No. 153774

My campus give me the choice between 3 martial arts courses.
Judo/Japanese Jiu Jitsu/Aikido
I've seen the videos of the JJJ class where they defeat a guy holding a toy gun against their back and it seem like BS to me.

If you could actually deharm a guy holding a gun. Why wouldn't yoy train with BBgun, to see if you can be faster than a trigger?

Anonymous at Thu, 29 Jun 2023 10:35:27 UTC No. 153777

>>153774
If someone was magical enough to be able to perform a disarm with a gun to their back, the likelihood of them even being in that situation is near absolute zero.

Anonymous at Thu, 29 Jun 2023 10:39:37 UTC No. 153778

>>153777
>You get your black mcbelt once you disharm a sniper sitting on a couch 1km away.

Anonymous at Thu, 29 Jun 2023 10:41:27 UTC No. 153779

>>153778
Sinanju has no belts, it is not Japanese filth.

Anonymous at Thu, 29 Jun 2023 10:52:52 UTC No. 153780

>>153779
You're in the wrong thread, buddy.
This is the Japanese Jiujitsu thread.

Anonymous at Thu, 29 Jun 2023 10:57:51 UTC No. 153781

>>153780
Chiun posts where he pleases.

Anonymous at Thu, 29 Jun 2023 17:51:34 UTC No. 153839

>>153774
>Japanese Jiu Jitsu
It looks sketchy. Nor (legit) style call itself Japanese Jiu Jitsu.

Anonymous at Thu, 29 Jun 2023 18:17:53 UTC No. 153848

>>153839
>call itself japanese jiujitsu
It dosen't I just call it that way, because since it didn't say Brazilian, I assumed it must be the Japanese kind.

Anonymous at Thu, 29 Jun 2023 18:27:41 UTC No. 153852

>>153848
That would be a mistake. As said up above, most jujutsu styles are modern amalgamations of other arts, made in the west.

Anonymous at Thu, 29 Jun 2023 19:28:16 UTC No. 153867

>>153852
I read that usually
>Jiujitsu = BJJ
>Ju Jutsu = traditional japanese
Any truth behind that?

Anonymous at Thu, 29 Jun 2023 21:48:38 UTC No. 153889

>>153867
The only truth there is that "jujutsu" is the more modern spelling that is usually used for Japanese jujutsu. BJJ and its offshoots tend to use the older spelling. If the group teaching jujutsu. can't tell you were the style was founded and by who its safe to assume it is not Japanese nor particularly traditional. A Japanese jujutsu style will almost certainly have a Japanese name too, like Tenjin Shinyo Ryu, Shindo Yoshin Ryu, Daito Ryu, Hakko Ryu, ect.
Ive read that there are schools in the west calling themselves jujutsu that originated from early Japanese expats, that have lost most of their origin information. I suppose you could call those Japanese jujutsu too, but how close they have kept to their origins I have no idea.

Anonymous at Thu, 29 Jun 2023 22:03:35 UTC No. 153894

>>153889
I'm suspicious that no small amount of them were just taken out of any given police or military manual the teacher had or had been taught, since they're just an overview list of techniques and not any true system or philosophy, combat/art/otherwise.

Anonymous at Thu, 29 Jun 2023 23:17:44 UTC No. 153908

>>153894
I know that after the Russo-Japanese war there was something of a jujutsu craze in the west. Teddy Roosevelt even had a small dojo built in the white house where he practiced judo. A lot of early teachers in the west didn't seem to make a big distinction between jujutsu and Kodokan Judo. Nor was it uncommon for teachers of judo to have had a background in jujutsu, if they came from Japan. Likewise, if a Judo student didn't have permission to teach, he might just call what he taught jujutsu as a way to get around the rule. I imagine this played a part of the current confusion. I have also heard a few stories of people getting books or even contacting the practitioners of legitimate systems for information, and then just copying what they got and calling it their own.

Anonymous at Fri, 30 Jun 2023 17:57:06 UTC No. 154072

My (euro) town has as many JJJ clubs as judo ones, and I'm cross-training with one of them over the summer. So far it's essentially a more self-defense oriented judo, where instead of pinning the opponent after a throw we instead try to control them from a standing position. Also striking, of course.

>>153867
Jiujitsu, juujutsu, and jujutsu are all just different romanisations of 柔術 (じゅうじゅつ). I'm sure different groups favour different romanisation schemes, but it's not hard-and-fast.