🧵 realistic expectations ninjitsu
Anonymous at Wed, 16 Aug 2023 22:54:07 UTC No. 162049
I KNOW ninjitsu as such isnt a "thing". Real ninjas were just spies who dressed as whatever the common man dressed like in the area of operation. They didnt have combat systems beyond personal self-defence, as they tried to assassinate the target with a cost-averse strategy. even "dirty tricks" , whatever was necessary.
that said: can ninjitsu be FUN to learn? in Bujinkan, do you learn various skills like throwing proyectiles, pole\staff weapons? if you get to a high level can you get to wear armor for demonstrations or armor-grappling?
are there non-bujinkan lineages like the ninja guy who appears in the asianboss youtube channel? (he has his own school now, goes to the forest, teaches survivalism and kuji-in, etc)
>tl;dr can ninjitsu be a fun hobby and a key to genuine ,deeper experience like the japanese dance-martial tradition and connection, or shinto spirituality? while knowing it doesnt provide real combat teaching
Anonymous at Wed, 16 Aug 2023 23:04:03 UTC No. 162051
>>162049
For many reasons that you've already outlined it is basically impossible to give you a reading on Ninjitsu. In standardized martial arts there is expectations, in stuff like Ninjitsu and Kung Fu, it's almost all about how competent your individual teacher is.
Anonymous at Wed, 16 Aug 2023 23:36:49 UTC No. 162058
There are plenty of fun things you can learn to throw. None of them requires being a teenage mutant turtle.
Anonymous at Wed, 16 Aug 2023 23:40:38 UTC No. 162059
>>162049
Lot of that is something you can study independently. Additionally part of the reason the lineage & legitimacy of ninjutsu is dubious is because beyond the secretive nature is a lot of their skills were practiced elsewhere. Bojutsu is only a handful of basic strikes & blocks, the rest is just fancy spinny shit you never use in combat. The throwing shit can just be done in your backyard & learning to throw big ass nails or the like would be the most historically accurate. The armor shit is a tad autistic because even getting that is reaching levels of weeb suspension of disbeleief. As in you are going to need to suspend disbelief that the person you're learning from knows what they're doing because they are probably making it up. Just give up on the ninja shit & learn the skills separately. Then just practice sneaking up on people I guess?
>Join a mma class
>Start practicing bojutsu & throwing at home
>Go innawoods and practice bushcraft
You're going to find much bigger much more legit communities if you do it separately too.
Anonymous at Wed, 16 Aug 2023 23:44:25 UTC No. 162060
>>162059
Or I suppose if you want a more authentic h2h experience that will have someone you can practice bojutsu with, get really fucking lucky & find an oldschool okinawa karate school with weapons.
Anonymous at Thu, 17 Aug 2023 00:49:14 UTC No. 162063
>>162049
The Bujinkan, is essentially a hodgepodge of nine fighting styles, some real, some made up by Hatsumi's teacher. Its been homogenized and then flitered through this huge international organization Hatsumi runs. I would assume it is fun for most people who do it. Most people find real traditional Japanese martial arts to either be too boring, or too demanding, to learn. That or there is nothing in their area. This is because real traditional Japanese martial arts (koryu) generally are not profitable, and represent an obligation to potential members rather than a service.
If you really want to learn jujutsu or bojutsu and the like, as samurai did them, you need to find a koryu, or at least a Japanese art with a direct and traceable lineage and technical connection to koryu and train that.
Anonymous at Thu, 17 Aug 2023 00:52:17 UTC No. 162064
>>162060
I haven't seen anyone who looks like they actually know how to use the weapons -as- weapons beyond VHS transfers of 8mm.
Anonymous at Thu, 17 Aug 2023 04:35:39 UTC No. 162082
>>162064
For staffs? Yeah because the only martial arts competition using staffs will be in forms & thats all spinny bullshit that no one actually uses. Besides bojutsu is stupid simple & since there isn't really anyone who is going to spar it even if you did find a gym, may as well solo that. But there are plenty of eskrima gyms & thats still very practical.
Anonymous at Thu, 17 Aug 2023 09:11:08 UTC No. 162096
>>162082
Not related and I ain't OP but one of the instructors in my HEMA club is going to start studying some staff treatises, and when he is confient enough, allow us to spar (very carefully if we end up using solid wooden staves of course)
I would have expected traditional asian martial arts to have developped a safer sparring analogue to the staff. Is there such a thing that I just don't know of?
Anonymous at Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:12:52 UTC No. 162112
>>162096
Not really no. I know of no stick art willing to do sparring at all except some really hardcore eskrima dojos. As for staves, thats a big no. Even among legit clubs you are not going to see "sparring" you will see people going to what basically amounts to partner forms. One side runs through the basic strikes, the other blocks. Thats pretty much it. But admittedly, it's stupid simple. Assuming we're strictly talking about bojutsu. I dont know shit about that flqmboyant shoalin stick shit. But if the karate boys aren't stick sparring, then I doubt any chink style does
Anonymous at Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:13:57 UTC No. 162119
>>162112
>>162096
what about Ethiopian stick fighting?
do they spar with actual hard strikes there?
Anonymous at Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:05:20 UTC No. 162124
>>162112
Just because you know of none doesn't mean there is none - I (central EU) have four clubs to spar with alone, be it Dog Brothers (wooden weapons, minor protection, full contact including grappling if both agree), Escrima (as you already mentioned), northern Mantis Fist (Hockey gloves, visor sparring helmets, shin and elbow pads, groin cups and all kinds of safety weapons) and (albeit cringe) some pseudo-woowoo-"Chinese Boxing" fanclub.
Especially the mantis dudes are creepy fighters, using much more spear-like movements than the others, and aiming to cripple you as fast as possible to make you let go of your staff, trip you all the times, and shaving your fingers off every time weapons clash and lock. "Shaolin staff" fighters from the other schools were a joke, fearing stick contact at every swing, while DB and mantis guys would just casually keep moving forwards and give you a big swing as soon as you consider yourself far enough away. Escrima was fast-paced as well, with more close and nonstop stick drills all the time.
There's lots of safety weapon traders on the internet, so someone must be buying those. Also, none of these clubs advertised "hard full-contact weapon sparring", so your best bet is to state where you are and if someone from that area knows a good dojo/dojang/wuguan.
MOST clubs nowadays are McDojos, Bozo money-machines, or MMA-gay clubs. You won't find pearls if you don not search for them.
Anonymous at Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:22:35 UTC No. 162132
Ninjutusu can indeed be very fun if you are self aware and don't delude yourself about "lineage" or modern real world practicality.
It's basically larp. Larp is really fun, but some of that fun can be tarnished if you take it too seriously.
It won't make you a bad ass but you will make great friends and do fun stuff with them regularly, and if you stick with it you will be able to pull of some legitimately cool looking moves and have a sampling of different aspects of martial arts you might want to explore more by cross-training into another style.
Like you could find out you really love the stand up grappling and thus take up judo or JJJ. Maybe you want to refine your striking or get really nice kicks to you take up kickboxing or karate or one of the Korean arts that focus on kicks depending on whats in your area. Or maybe you fall in love with weapons and find out there is a HEMA group in your area or a kendo place near by.
and so on.
My point is it's not a waste of time but it probably also won't be the end of the road in your martial arts journey.
Anonymous at Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:30:32 UTC No. 162134
>>162096
There are lightly foam padded staffs but they can't be used full contact because they break. Similar in construction to those foam eskrima sticks.
There are also the thick foam padded staffs that the military and obstacle course shows used to use but those are about as accurate to staff fighting as boffers are to sword fighting.
Anonymous at Thu, 17 Aug 2023 22:27:02 UTC No. 162173
>>162134
These are as safe full contact sparring staves as possible, except you can get your hands on LORICA-armours (see "Unified Weapons Master"). Waxwood staves break as easily unless you manage to hit with the tip (especially stabbing or clubbing with the thickest end). Just 1-2 feet below the tip, and it is likely to snap (tested for you in an enraged longstaff duel, although being outfitted with multiple foam protectors, no hardshell stuff). The compact foam sticks and that already feel heavy from holding seem to be the best, though hard use brings heavy wear so you need to buy sufficient amounts beforehand.
Even militaries use civilian heavy-duty foam escrima/kali sticks, and they hurt like hell/break fingers when you get hit hard without protection.
Anonymous at Thu, 17 Aug 2023 22:59:13 UTC No. 162177
>>162173
Generally they are used with head and hand protection I think.
I know I would go that way if I spared using them.
Anonymous at Mon, 21 Aug 2023 02:25:28 UTC No. 162757
>>162049
Wrong, recent analysis of history of ninjas, it shows that they were the same samurai class. Ninjutsu was simply the activities that were not "warrior like".
This means something like during the day, they act like samurai, following a code of etiquette and rules of combat and by nigh, they did activities consireded "non warrior like" (espionage, assassination, reconnaissance, sabotage, etc)
Want to learn ninjustu? Maybe that knowledge is lost but you can learn from the descendant of taijutsu/jiujutsu (bare hand fighting): judo, aikido, modern jiujutsu, BJJ, etc.
It will cost you less money in the long run. If you want to learn how to kill people, join the military and be send to a war.
Anonymous at Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:00:26 UTC No. 162793
>>162082
>>162096
>>162112
>>162119
>>162124
SCA heavy weapons fighters put dents in each others steel helmets with 1.25" thick rattan. They have polearms but no staves; I would wager that you could easily talk most polearm fighters into full-contact staff sparring with you.
Anonymous at Tue, 22 Aug 2023 16:54:38 UTC No. 163022
>>162975
dah juice, lol