Anonymous at Wed, 30 Aug 2023 06:41:23 UTC No. 164317

>>164316
Judo is most likely to be your most practical and most available option. Even if you wanted to do Aikido, its actually rarer than Judo in most places. If you are looking for something more traditional your options are probably limited unless you live in Japan. Most Japanese Jujutsu in the west really isn't Japanese, nor really jujutsu if you want to be pedantic. If you live near a big city your options might be slightly better though.

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Aug 2023 06:58:27 UTC No. 164320

>>164317
I do live in japan. I went to a few boxing gyms but they were a bit of a joke so I figured I'd have more luck trying to find a japanese martial arts dojo. keen to hear if you have any other suggestions, but I was leaning towards judo for the reasons you described.

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Aug 2023 10:00:40 UTC No. 164330

>>164320
Not that Anon, but...
You ARE in Japan? Well, then you have many options.
You might want to search for Kudo, thats a combination of Judo and Karate.It might be also worthwile to check out Taido, its a Karate Style that looks kinda similiar to Capoeira and is really hard to find in the west.

You may also be able to find some gyms training Shuai Jia, thats chinese wrestling although that may be the rarest one to find.

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Aug 2023 11:26:09 UTC No. 164334

>>164316
Judo, any other answer isn’t going to fit the “practical” part of your question.

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Aug 2023 11:28:28 UTC No. 164335

>>164320
Are you actually Japanese or an English teacher-San? If the former why the fuck weren’t you doing judo in high school already. It’s your national sport.

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Aug 2023 14:49:54 UTC No. 164348

>>164335
It's hilariously telling how many niggers on this site never consider it might be someone on the 23 American bases in nipland

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Aug 2023 15:43:18 UTC No. 164352

>>164348
>joining the American military in 2023
lol, lmao even. Either way just do judo, crayon muncher.

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Aug 2023 16:21:30 UTC No. 164356

>>164316
Catch wrestling.

Japan is one of the few places with a verified lineage of catch wrestling that's still around.

Anonymous at Wed, 30 Aug 2023 17:24:55 UTC No. 164371

>>164320
Well if you live in Japan your options are different. Do you have any martial arts experience? I also tend to like the more traditional arts but I think they can be hard to evaluate without some practical experience. If you are looking for a traditional art your best bet is to look up a koryu jujutsu style. However if you are looking for something where you can do a lot of sparring or competing, Judo or some of the other arts mentioned here would be better.

Anonymous at Sat, 2 Sep 2023 06:52:49 UTC No. 164738

>>164316
Why do you want to do a japanese grappling art in particular? It doesn't seem like you care which art so much, as long as it's japanese.
If you're looking for effectiveness in grappling, non-olympic judo is good, any kind of western wrestling is good, brazillian jiu jitsu is good (only if they do a lot of stand up stuff, i don't think it's in your best interest to train in a gym that prioritizes guard pulling). The most important thing is to pick a place near by that has people you like talking to where no one is getting injured. Have fun!

Anonymous at Sat, 2 Sep 2023 11:36:29 UTC No. 164764

>>164738
>non-olympic judo
>Brazilian jiu-jitsu that does a lot of stand up
>western wrestling outside of high school or college

Anonymous at Sat, 2 Sep 2023 13:54:51 UTC No. 164776

>>164352
>joining is the only way to be there
Another telling statement.

Anonymous at Sat, 2 Sep 2023 14:04:31 UTC No. 164778

>>164776
>I work some obscure contractor position on a military base, and I’m going to give you no indication as to what it is
>what a fucking retard you are for not assuming this instead of the common ways American foreigners end up in Japan
Ok

Anonymous at Sat, 2 Sep 2023 15:55:27 UTC No. 164794

>>164334
unless the person you are fighting is not someone who is allergic to the ground

Anonymous at Sat, 2 Sep 2023 16:56:21 UTC No. 164816

>>164316
Kūdō (空道, Kūdō) daido juku, literally MMA karate with grappling.

Anonymous at Sat, 2 Sep 2023 19:18:08 UTC No. 164827

>>164794
Yeah dude because most people who would give you trouble on the street are fucking jiujitsu specialists, obviously.

Anonymous at Sat, 2 Sep 2023 23:23:02 UTC No. 164874

>>164778
>I can't concieve of having a family
And there we are.

Anonymous at Sun, 3 Sep 2023 00:41:55 UTC No. 164899

>>164764
well, yeah. olympic judo is massisvely cucked compared to what it would be outside of the olympics. Bjj with standup (wrestling) is as good as it gets in terms of just grappling, man. Annnnd yeah it's really hard to find a wrestling club outside of schools, but if you could, it'd be pretty good. Am I wrong?

Anonymous at Sun, 3 Sep 2023 11:35:40 UTC No. 164968

>>164827
Given by how regular people watch MMA and wrestling, you better know how to throw them down quick if you want to.

Most people can use pretty shitty boxing to knock out an opponent if they are explosive enough as long as the size difference isn't huge, also kicks to the balls and legs are common.

Anonymous at Sun, 3 Sep 2023 18:48:23 UTC No. 165007

>>164899
Recommending people only train obscure niche versions of popular combat sports isn’t practical advice and regular bjj or judo is going to suit people just fine for any drunk scrub who would fuck with them on the street.
>>164968
>Given by how regular people watch MMA
literally irrelevant. There’s a fucking onion piece about this that always makes me giggle.

https://www.theonion.com/report-average-male-4-000-less-effective-in-fights-th-1819576624

>you better know how to throw them down quick if you want to.
Which a competent judoka can. Hell, most competent bjj fags can sloppily take shitters to the floor too. I can tell you this from experience, I’ve done it more than once.
>Most people can use pretty shitty boxing to knock out an opponent if they are explosive enough
So what?
>also kicks to the balls and legs are common.
And? I feel like you made this post just to start an argument without having a coherent point. Are you trying to suggest grappling is impractical because “well id just kick ur balls”? If so lol, lmao.

Anonymous at Mon, 4 Sep 2023 00:00:50 UTC No. 165044

kudo

Anonymous at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 16:12:52 UTC No. 166878

>>164316
Jap Goju mostly died off after it morphed into Kyokushin, but of course you could easily find it in Okinawa still. In the main islands it's probably bit harder to find a place to train, but they do exist.

Judo.is probably your best options, though, every street corner dojo is gonna have amazing Judo guys practicing there in Japan, so the overall quality level is the highest you can find. Other Japanese grappling arts are probably a bit too niche to have a large enough talent pool to push you to become better.

Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 01:42:03 UTC No. 167353

>>164316
I practiced Aikido several years, it's a very good tool for descalation of conflict.
It has almost exclusively grapples and techniques about redirect attacks.
I'd advise that you practice it for a couple months and then you decide.
I know several club bouncers that got promotions for being able to reduce someone without harming them.

Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 01:58:31 UTC No. 167357

>>164316
I'd like to learn Aikido mostly for all the joint locks and take downs. Judo looks great for the sports aspect. I'd also go non-Japanese and do Silat .

I'm primarily an FMA, Krav Maga and JKD Concepts guy.

Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 02:49:47 UTC No. 167360

>>167357
>I'm primarily an FMA, Krav Maga and JKD Concepts guy.
That explains why your reccomendations are so retarded

Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 05:36:00 UTC No. 167381

>>167360
So what are you? Brazilian Jujitsu? You like rolling on the ground with other men? FMA, JKD, and Krav all have ground fighting also.

Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 06:25:56 UTC No. 167383

>>167381
I’ve cross trained Brazilian jiu-jitsu, I am primarily a judoka. I dabble in kickboxing also. All the martial arts you listed for concepts are fake and gay just like you which explains why you think judo is “good for sport” but instead think people ought to learn fucking aikido lol

https://youtu.be/N8t_73QjtwA?feature=shared

Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 06:39:49 UTC No. 167384

>>167383
I like Judo and I have used a few Judo throws effectively in sparring matches. I picked up on some pieces of Brazilian Jujitsu also. As far as my Filipino Martial Arts training, it's weapons based so it's no possible to fully pressure test it on someone without severely injuring. ...and Aikido, much of Aikido comes from the Samurai Sword and learning how to prevent injury , how to fall without injury, or just simple survival. The real Aikidio masters are the guys that take the big hits and falls from the teachers.

Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 06:46:34 UTC No. 167385

>>167384
>The real Aikidio masters are the guys that take the big hits and falls from the teachers.
As if literally every other grappling art doesn’t teach people how to fall
>muh flip weapon arts
Actual unironic meme and I don’t understand why people promote it so much. Flip martial arts are just poorly adapted Spanish fencing principles.

Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:33:59 UTC No. 167408

>>167385
The Spanish feared Filipino bladed arts and that's why they banned their practices which is how stick fighting came to be.The art is beautiful, effective, and therapeutic. People can still enjoy the art in there old age. Arts like BJJ and kick boxing are great, but you guys are going to be in pain in your older years if you go too hard.

Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 13:45:08 UTC No. 167414

>>167408
>wildly flail around with no control, defense or technique
>MUH FEARED FLIP SWORD FIGHTING
Lmfao, go watch dog brothers and watch how it devolves into grappling and mma almost immediately. At least those weirdos fight full contact though. The FMA guys “doing it into old age” don’t spar.

Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 22:05:14 UTC No. 167462

Weapons that simulate blades do not need heavy sparring. Real Sword fights usually end in 20 seconds or less, once a major artery is hit the fight is as good as over. There’s just no true pressure test in FMA except live bladed fight.

Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 22:26:00 UTC No. 167464

>>167414
What are you talking about? FMA has multiple levels of sparring. They even have tournaments.

Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 01:59:27 UTC No. 167475

>>167464
yes I know about all those tournaments with padded sticks and padded armor, it's all sport, just like boxing is a sport with the padded gloves and ring, just like UFC is a sport, , kick boxing is a sport, modern muay thai is a sport.

Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 02:08:45 UTC No. 167477

>>167414
I know about Dog Brothers, heck one of my teachers is a Dog Brother. Students of JKD are in the Dog Brothers. Many people from different styles are part of Dog Brothers. The Dog brothers speak highly of JKD and also remember the history of many Old Filipino masters and practitioners. And about jujitsu and ground fighting, Filipino Martial Arts encompass those as well.240ww

Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 02:43:50 UTC No. 167479

>>167475
This isn’t me
>>167464
Most of what I’ve seen from FMA is controlled pattern drills and when it expands into free practice it ends up looking like Polish cross cutting but with far less control. Genuinely, I know a fair amount about Spanish fencing and the flips do it extremely poorly, they don’t apply even basic concepts in practice like attacking from the off line. Just spazzing out and throwing their “stick” or whatever at every movement.
>>167477
JKD is for larpers. This isn’t the W you seem to think it is.

Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 04:07:02 UTC No. 167486

>>167479
Not having good sparring, and I'm not saying I agree since I haven't looked to deeply into it, isn't the same as saying they don't spar. In fact its completely different.

Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 05:16:48 UTC No. 167491

>>167479
Spanish fencing is all about math and science on flat solid ground. It's more about dueling, but on the battlefield there are many more variables and factors than on that spanish fencing grid. If Spanish fencing were so great then Magellan would not have lost his head to pre-colonial Filipinos.

Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 05:38:26 UTC No. 167494

>>167360
You think you know so much, but you're like a religious nut stuck in tunnel vision to the true glory of Gods Universe.

Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 09:58:20 UTC No. 167510

>>167479
Spanish Fencing Destreza is Stabbing, Kali Escrima is Slashing. Albeit there is still some limited cross training among both arts as Kali Escrima sometimes uses Destreza too especially its Espada y Daga techniques I think Destreza has short knife fighting from Flips too.

Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 13:48:35 UTC No. 167533

>>167491
Warfare is decided by the individual skill of soldiers
If you’re the guy I was originally responding too you’re even more retarded than I thought. If you’re someone else then you’re more retarded than a jkd poster.
>>167494
Not an argument
>>167510
Destreza has both cutting and thrusting you retard and the spainiards considered disarming the opponent to be the ideal way of fighting. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
>>167486
>hey look here, they have sparring they just train themselves incorrectly as a joke

Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 19:14:09 UTC No. 167607

FMA / Kali is not just slashing. It is both thrust and slash. Much of the offense and offensive counters revolve around repeated thrust and slash. In sports competition FMA the thrust is banned because of the inherent danger.


now is Spanish Fencing the best style of sword fighting in the world? All I know is stories from Hollywood movies , Italians, French, British they all used to have sophisticated sword fighting systems.

Anonymous at Wed, 20 Sep 2023 17:03:58 UTC No. 167795

>>167607
>Spanish Fencing the best style of sword fighting in the world?
No lol, Spaniards were too autistic and focused on some retard mathematics

Anonymous at Sun, 24 Sep 2023 08:20:45 UTC No. 168409

>>164316
Judo definitely

Anonymous at Sun, 24 Sep 2023 08:41:05 UTC No. 168410

>>167607
> Sophisticated sword fighting system.
> Stab stab stab the motherfucker before pommeling his head in!

Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 11:22:45 UTC No. 168790

>>164317
Every school that taught Aikido where I live has some weird slightly cultish tint to it.

Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 15:51:17 UTC No. 168822

>>168790
Most aikido schools are money grubbing schools anyway, aikido should be taught only after Judo experience not without.

Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 21:58:31 UTC No. 168915

>>168822
The more I look at Aikido, it’s a style for advanced martial artists, It also helps a lot if the practitioner is tall and knows
how to use his/her height for advantage. I’d say have a foundation in Judo, karate, and kendo, then take Aikido. if you want to go for the Japanese complete warrior type take Ninjitsu also.

Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 22:05:49 UTC No. 168919

>>168915
Or just do Judo and if you want to spend time on another martial art learn a striking art like kickboxing

Anonymous at Tue, 26 Sep 2023 02:32:25 UTC No. 168945

>>168822
>>168915
You’d be better off just practicing more judo than learning meme locks.
>it’s muh masters art
Yeah this guy looks like a real master.
https://youtu.be/MmEx8Moy7ro?feature=shared

Anonymous at Tue, 26 Sep 2023 04:08:09 UTC No. 168967

>>168915
Buddy Aikido is a fake martial art. The moment you fight a resisting opponent it shatters your entire worldview. I've seen this happen in judo to new guys who were coming from aikido and they immediately realized it was all bullshit.

Anonymous at Sat, 30 Sep 2023 16:30:49 UTC No. 169856

>>168945
>>168967
Tomiki Aikido has live sparring and competitions, and the techniques looks pretty good. Aikido has problems because Ueshiba's took his personal spiritual beliefs and imposed them on some of the old Jujutsu techniques, cucking the martial art from the beginning, but the movements themselves are fine.

Anonymous at Sat, 30 Sep 2023 16:50:31 UTC No. 169860

>>169856
Frankly this did not happen. Ueshiba did have some odd religious beliefs, but pacifism or not hurting people were not among them. On the other hand, unlike Kano and Tomiki, he never organized his teachings into formal sets of kata in a systematic or rational manner to aid in teaching. He just kind of did his own thing and expected his students to copy. He also did couch his explanations in religious and philosophical language that even his top students found unintelligible

Anonymous at Sat, 30 Sep 2023 16:52:27 UTC No. 169861

>>167353
Gay and cringe, advice against it, it requires a Judo or other stand up clinch art.

Anonymous at Sat, 30 Sep 2023 18:20:34 UTC No. 169880

>>169860
The end result is still the same, Ueshiba's aikido works significantly worse than the Aikido established by Kano's students by combining Aikido's techniques with Judo's methodologies.

sage at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 02:13:46 UTC No. 170127

>>164316
sumo
You'll understand when you do your 10,000th shiko

Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 02:38:36 UTC No. 170130

>>170127
>announcing a Sage
>reccomending shit he almost certainly doesn’t train himself

Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 02:52:25 UTC No. 170132

>>169860
Aikido is definitely more spiritual than a fighting art. In a way it's more of an internal art like the meditative side of Tai Chi Chuan.

Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 03:19:23 UTC No. 170138

>>170132
>more spiritual than a fighting art.
The idea that these are separate things is very western. Japanese martial arts never saw a contradiction between extreme spiritualism and practicality before the modern era. Ueshiba certainly never saw a difference. The man trained the Kampeitai and had deep ties to the military.
I'm not trying to offer a defense of aikido itself, just pointing out the idea that the founder purposely defanged it is almost completely a myth. The art also changed quite a bit after Ueshiba died.

Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 03:29:04 UTC No. 170139

>>170138
>The idea that these are separate things is very western. Japanese martial arts never saw a contradiction between extreme spiritualism and practicality before the modern era. Ueshiba certainly never saw a difference
Not him, but you ought not to make wide blanket statements like this. One of the biggest mistakes weebs and anti-weebs make is making gross assumptions on what all eastern people believe rather than treating them as a people with varied opinions just like everyone else in the world. To cite a few notable examples, Miyamoto musashi would have criticized aikido for being “far more flower than fruit.” He was also someone who believed that the only point of martial arts was to win fights. Contrast that to yagyu munenore who believed that martial arts existed for the righteous to strike down evil and that making preemptive strikes was justified to that end. Contrast that with Judo’s founder, Jigoro Kano, who believed that any action taken to defend the life of themself and others was “undeniably justified,” but that making offensive actions against those not actively attacking you was immoral.

>Tl;dr not every Japanese person forever thought the exact same thing. Don’t be a retard.

Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 03:47:29 UTC No. 170141

>>170139
Not everyone believed the same thing, and there are always exceptions, but its fair to make broad stroke comments about general cultural practices. Many "practical" systems of kenjutsu and jujutsu that competed with other schools contained pretty explicit religious practices. You can even read modern commentaries about how practicing these things is considered, in some cases essential to fully understand and use the techniques, which were fully intended, and were used on other people. Does that mean everyone did it? of course not, just that it was a common part of many styles and was not generally seen as antithetical to practical training.

Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 03:54:29 UTC No. 170142

>>170141
I’ll accept that many Japanese martial artists and schools did not see a contradiction between spirituality and practicality, my contention is really only with the statement “Japanese martial arts NEVER saw a contradiction between extreme spiritualism and practicality before the modern era.” Musashi is an exceptionally poignant example of why this is wrong because he quite literally only believed the martial arts should be concerned with whether or not they win fights and not whether they had any deeper or even surface level spiritual implications.

Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 04:04:46 UTC No. 170144

>>170142
Fair enough, never was perhaps too strong a word. It would have been better to say that that it was not commonly recognized before the modern era.

Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 14:39:32 UTC No. 170200

>>170142
NTA, but wasn't Musashi frequently shat on for (on top of being a Gekokujofag) not showing too much concern about spiritual matters in his ju-jutsu school? Sure, he had beliefs and apparently liked to live by them too, but they didn't intersect much with his teaching methodologies beyond making some basic surface level references to the Buddhist 5 elements in his Rings book.

Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 18:15:00 UTC No. 170229

>>164316
Lots of cool recommendations ITT.
Lots of retarded shitflinging as well, par for the course.
You're in an enviable position, lots of martial arts nerds in the world would kill to train in Japan.
I'd highly recommend you take advantage of uniquely Japanese opportunities that you won't have back in the West. DO NOT just do BJJ or something with the guys on base, what a waste of an opportunity, you can do that when you get back to the States.
Personally my favorite ideas in this thread:
Kudo
Catch wrestling
Judo

Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 19:04:37 UTC No. 170236

>>170229
>Catch wrestling
Isn't that basically interchangeable with no gi bjj at this point?

Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 19:46:11 UTC No. 170238

>>170236
Sadly, yeah, kinda.
The remaining catch wrestlers in the world are in a predicament: torn between preserving the uniqueness of their heritage, and adapting to the current grappling meta to remain competitive.

But that's why I think OP should jump at the chance to train catch in Japan: it's one of the few places where legit catch lineages are still alive. It's a very unique opportunity to study a rare, dying art in the wild.

I've been watching a lot of EnglishMartialArts on youtube lately so I'm obsessing over catch. Rationally, there's probably little reason to seek it out over nogi.

Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 20:58:05 UTC No. 170249

>>170238
Given they have the same end goal it's only natural all the different submission grappling styles will coalesce into one. No gi BJJ might be the most popular as far as naming goes, but on a technical level it, catch and luta livre all contributed to the art as it is right now. It might be called BJJ but it's more like a child of all the major submission styles around. And that's a good thing, honestly, those were all competition focused and gave priority to efficiency above anything else, if they meet something else similar that works where they don't it's better to adapt rhan to become stagnant and lose relevance.

Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 21:06:33 UTC No. 170252

>>164794
They do a ton of newaza in Japan. Literally Kosen Judo competition. No newaza is some weird American thing although Ronda Rousey was taught by her mum.

Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 21:18:38 UTC No. 170255

>>170252
My current dojo also likes to do more ne waza than normal. I think the trick is having the place be run by those old-school japs, preferably an Issei or Nissei.

Anonymous at Tue, 3 Oct 2023 07:27:40 UTC No. 170305

>>169880
Aïkidos techniques are virtually impossible to combine with Judo’s methodology. The foundation of Kano’s pedagogy is randori and shiai; practising techniques against resisting opponents is the keystone method of education. You cannot safely practise with the mock wooden weapons used in Aikido. You cannot safely do Randori with wrist and finger manipulation techniques. You cannot safely do randori with strikes: that’s why we don’t.
There is a small caveat. Similarly to leg locks that can be extremely dangerous, randori between two sufficiently skilful players using more dangerous techniques can happen because they both know how to look after one another. I’ve seen this attempted with wrist locks, but their joints are always extremely sore afterwards and that damage would be crippling after a few years even at medium intensity sparring.

Anonymous at Tue, 3 Oct 2023 11:16:17 UTC No. 170313

>>170305
>You cannot safely practise with the mock wooden weapons used in Aikido. You cannot safely do Randori with wrist and finger manipulation techniques. You cannot safely do randori with strikes: that’s why we don’t.
Don't know what to tell you anon, but that's bullshit. You can do all of that safely, and Tomiki Aikido largely does it. People in all kinds of submission grappling train leg and knee stuff all the time, and those are at least just as dangerous as all the small joint manipulation you see in Aikido. Just take it easy, don't force the locks once they're "set", encourage people to tap early and make sure to put ice on the joints after practice.

Anonymous at Sat, 7 Oct 2023 05:02:56 UTC No. 170948

>>164738
kodokan and olympic judo are the same thing. sure you lose some techniques in competition, but nobody is stopping you from actually learning them.
point being that judo is more than its throws. gripping, timing and feints are infinitely more important than the throw itself. any idiot could learn a judo throw in an hour, but it takes thousands of hours of to use it on a resisting opponent, which doesnt come from practicing the throw so much as it does practicing the setups. adapting banned techniques (especially against non-judoka) is very easy because youre already good at getting positional advantage, timing and moving explosively.

Anonymous at Sun, 8 Oct 2023 21:59:29 UTC No. 171199

>>170313
>you can practise it safely!
>btw I have to ice my joints after every practise
Anon…

Anonymous at Sun, 8 Oct 2023 22:09:18 UTC No. 171202

>>170236
No Gi BJJ incorporates a lot more wrestling nowadays sure, but it's still ultimately focused on the submissions above all else. Catch wrestling still values pinning, so you see more of it there as well as some unorthodox submissions.