Anonymous at Thu, 14 Sep 2023 16:33:18 UTC No. 166679
>>166676
That's quite big
Anonymous at Thu, 14 Sep 2023 17:09:42 UTC No. 166685
>>166679
4U
Anonymous at Thu, 14 Sep 2023 17:22:15 UTC No. 166686
>>166685
If I pulled that beard, would he die?
Anonymous at Thu, 14 Sep 2023 18:34:07 UTC No. 166699
Why do practioners of karate give me a strong plebbit vibe? Karate seems redundant nowadays no?
>isn't the best for self defense
>watered down techniques
>meme belt system
>westerns abiding by japanese trading seems cucked
Why not just learn kickboxing?
Anonymous at Thu, 14 Sep 2023 18:45:12 UTC No. 166703
>>166699
Because it's not Karate? You just have a specific goal with martial arts and is cinfused why others wouldn't have the exact same one as you. But there are other good reasons they might prefer karate
>they enjoy the training method
>they like kata
>they're interested in olympic fighting
>they like japanese culture
>They just simply think a white kimono & black belt looks cool af (and they're right)
>they have a Karate dojo nearby that's generally better than the kickboxing equivalents.
Not everyone is looking to minmax their chances in a Kickboxing ring or care about muh sel-defense meme.
Anonymous at Thu, 14 Sep 2023 18:54:48 UTC No. 166706
>>166699
>westerns abiding by japanese trading seems cucked
It’s a Japanese martial art tradition. Go learn boxing if you hate Japs.
Anonymous at Thu, 14 Sep 2023 18:58:25 UTC No. 166707
>>166699
Because karate isn't just a sport, it's an art, it has it's own style.
Anonymous at Thu, 14 Sep 2023 19:10:24 UTC No. 166711
I like the ungloved sparring and focus on autistic detail more than arts streamlined for sport fighting like kickboxing. I'd probably get beaten up by a thai fighter but I'll take that risk to do a cooler martial art.
Anonymous at Thu, 14 Sep 2023 19:20:44 UTC No. 166714
>>166711
You go around fighting under Lumpinee Stadium rules or try to "dojo storm" Muay Thai gyms? No? I wouldn't worry about getting beat up by a Thai Fighter, then.
Anonymous at Thu, 14 Sep 2023 19:33:24 UTC No. 166716
Karate always lost, prove me wrong
Anonymous at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 08:51:29 UTC No. 166820
>>166716
Everything loses to freestyle wrestling
Anonymous at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 09:02:23 UTC No. 166822
>>166820
And this is actually what Max Dedik says. I watched his video when he remembers end of 90's-beginning of 00's, how he did karate, what he think etc. He remembers every striker of every martial art was arguing on forums and in IRL what style is better, and no one cared about freestyle wrestling. Everyone thought that wrestlers are weakest fighters - you punch him in the head and he falls, end of story. The reality turned out to be completely, completely opposite.
Max Dedik is 4th dan, IKO and IFK world champ, fought some kickboxing professional matches, one of Alexander Volkov coaches.
Anonymous at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 12:51:44 UTC No. 166837
>>166822
Ultimately I think it boils down that learning good enough strike defense as a grappler is much easier than learning good enough grapple defense as a striker.
Anonymous at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 14:04:36 UTC No. 166854
>>166716
Karate is too strong to win
Anonymous at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 14:08:52 UTC No. 166856
>>166854
Karate already won when you weren’t looking
Anonymous at Sat, 16 Sep 2023 19:11:24 UTC No. 167087
>>166854
Are Kenganbros truly everywhere?
Anonymous at Sat, 16 Sep 2023 21:22:34 UTC No. 167124
>>167087
Kengan fucking sucks
Anonymous at Sat, 16 Sep 2023 22:36:06 UTC No. 167136
>>167124
Nobody that reads it would disagree with that statement
Anonymous at Sun, 17 Sep 2023 13:36:06 UTC No. 167229
>>166542
>...... you should skip this and do kyokushin lol.
Non meme question, but what exactly does Kyokushin offer that I couldn't get in MT? From what I can tell the everyday training and fighting style seems very similar. Only thing I can think of is no head and face damage in Kyokushin, so it's safer.
I'm asking because I have a very good MT gym (professional fighters train there) nearby that offers classes every single day throughout most of the day, and they're quite a bit cheaper than all the karate dojos I've visited, no matter the style. There's a lot more people practicing MT in Brazil than Karate, so the talent pool to compete would be larger there as well.
With karate dojos that focus on Kata or WKF style competitions at least I know I'd get a unique experience, but with Kyokushin it just looks lie it'd be MT, but safer and with less people to train and compete.
Anonymous at Sun, 17 Sep 2023 14:00:41 UTC No. 167233
>>167229
Sounds like you are more inclined to MT. Its also a very good style you cant do much wrong with so just go with that if you that interests you more. Kyokushin and Karate by extension focus way more of basics, stances and Kata. MT focuses more on application of basics and sparring which also often results in better fighting ability right off the bat. While this sounds like Karate is the worse option, this sharpening of the basics is something i really learned to appreciate over the years that you often dont have at that kinda volume in MT. But a good MT place will also drill the basics into you. But overall what it comes down to is what you enjoy more. MT also suffers more under try hards from my expierence then Karate (at least in the west). Kyokushin and MT are espically similar in cmfighting concepts so just go with the option that seems the most fun for you.
Anonymous at Sun, 17 Sep 2023 14:08:08 UTC No. 167236
>>167233
I honestly would prefer Karate of any sort really, I'm a weeb at heart and have no problem admitting to that'scontributingto ny decisions. Besides, I work in finance in the poshest area of the country, so I can literally get fired from showing up too often with face damage, not to mention if my ability to work gets impaired from brain damage. BUT I also just managed to negotiate with my company for them for foot the bill for my master's programme, so my schedule will be pretty tight over the next 2 years years and the sheer convenience of being able to train whenever I can over having a fixed number of weekly classes I might be forced to skip every once in a while due to my studies is making me hesitant.
Anonymous at Sun, 17 Sep 2023 14:18:46 UTC No. 167239
>>167236
Then i would choose Karate and visit that Mt place whenever you cant go to Karate. If you talk to the Mt instructor and be honest about your predictement, maybe he will be understandable? Offer him to pay him a retainer fee every time you visit, something like that.
I had a similar situation with Bjj some time back.
Anonymous at Sun, 17 Sep 2023 14:33:47 UTC No. 167243
>>167239
Didn't think about that, so I'll try it out. I honestly got a bit freaked out by how cheap the MT gym was and got talking with the owner about how he made money that way. Sure he had A LOT of students coming in all day, but it shouldn't have been enough to keep the lights on. Apparently he lowballs the shot out of the fees to attract talent and makes money by taking a nice cut out of the pro earnings his top athletes make. Lot's of poor guys dying for a chance to claw their way out of the slums around here, so that way everyone wins in his eyes. Since in addition to the MT (which are their main style and have classes all day long) they also offer boxing, BJJ and MMA classes he probably makes a nice amount from pros competing on the state and regional level.
Anonymous at Sun, 17 Sep 2023 16:20:24 UTC No. 167258
>>167229
Kyokushin is has more options at the sort of in-between range that's not quite in the pocket and not quite clinching. They can also throw things at different angles than normal. It's also naturally bare knuckle so it translates other bare knuckles/small glove arts.
Anonymous at Sun, 17 Sep 2023 18:27:47 UTC No. 167283
>>167258
>They can also throw things at different angles than normal
You mean from not having to work around gloves when someone is defending? I'm not sure what that means, but it's pretty interesting.
Anonymous at Sun, 17 Sep 2023 19:31:30 UTC No. 167297
my karate is the most powerful of them all
Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 01:17:27 UTC No. 167350
>>167229
6 months of muay thai = 10 years of the hardest kyokushin
Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:25:13 UTC No. 167395
>>167229
The only thing kyokushin offer is bare fist conditioning, both via exercises and actual fighting.
I'm not from US and I heard MT in USA sucks ass and it's just not tough at all, while kyuokushin is universally brutal everywhere.
Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 10:28:35 UTC No. 167396
>>167236
If you are weeb do kyokushin cause it has katas that tied deeply to japanese culture. Also you will be somewhat comparable to MT fighter in fight sense and can transition to MT later. Lot of black belts combine their kyokushin training with kickboxing, I think it's good and very natural thing
Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 13:30:30 UTC No. 167412
>>167396
>Also you will be somewhat comparable to MT fighter in fight sense and can transition to MT later
I don't care about ring fighting honestly, the pay is kinda ass unless you're at the very highest levels and I'm honestly too old to get into that even if I wanted to. I just want something in which I can fight for hell of it, perfect my techniques and hopefully not get clocked in the head so hard I won't be able to keep working in my field anymore. I may detest finance, but it pays well.
Anonymous at Mon, 18 Sep 2023 15:06:37 UTC No. 167421
>>167350
bullshit
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 11:24:28 UTC No. 167514
Any thoughts on wado ryu?
Is it really useful in a non-point randori or in a non compliance fight?
I am not asking for a "too deadly for you" MA, just a style that prepares you for an average skirmish.
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 11:35:22 UTC No. 167516
>>167514
Anything that focuses on you keeping on your feet, at least simple stand up grappling and means either punch or throw someone hard will be good for self defense. WR technically fits that, but the actual quality will depend on the dojo. Do you have experien with other martial arts? I think having a baseline would help you feel out how good the WR dojo you have in mind actually is.
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 11:42:18 UTC No. 167517
>>167514
Kyokushin and it's offshoots is the only good style of karate
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 11:52:53 UTC No. 167519
>>167517
No.
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 12:15:01 UTC No. 167521
>>167519
>fart
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 18:43:48 UTC No. 167596
>>167517
Points karate is useful as a supplementary art even if it's not the best for preparing you for a real fight. There have been successful MMA fighters who cross-trained in it and said it was useful like Henry Cejudo and the Pitbull brothers.
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 18:58:05 UTC No. 167602
>>167596
Ok, I agree. Their footwork and distance management is really good.
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 20:59:51 UTC No. 167645
>>166676
Navaro and his current coach, Sensei Dedik are beasts. Had the pleasure of visiting the dojo a couple of times
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 21:06:53 UTC No. 167649
>>167395
In my experience Kyokushin in Europe is a bit soft, US is a bit better since people actually spar.
Russian dojos just hurt drifters for sport
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Sep 2023 21:12:01 UTC No. 167654
>>167517
As someone who's done Kyokushin since 2006, yes and no.
No style has all of the answers, but Kyokushin equips you with the best foundation to grow into a good all-rounder.
No one will be able to outwork you or score an effective body hit, and once you learn how to sneak a lead leg jodan mawashi geri from under a jab you will be everyone's least fav sparring partner
Anonymous at Wed, 20 Sep 2023 01:20:49 UTC No. 167694
>>167647
Sumo Dou was thematically good but with poor execution until the end fights. Kengan has been a 200 chapters long trainwreck that only ever gets worse each week.
To keep it on topic: banning dogi grabs in Kyokushin was a bad response to judokas cheesing the ruleset to get half points, just like ir was a bad response from Judo to banning leg throws to keep people from just doing a single leg for an advantage and then stalling. If you don't want your styles fighters to get cheesed by people doing something not emphasized on the syllabus you should instead develop new training methodologies to patch that hole in your game. Most Judo throws have analogues in the Okinawan traditions, so it's not like you'd be really stepping outside the boundries of your martial art. Kyokushin is supposed to mean "ultimate truth" and you don't reach that by ignoring your own core elements just because at the moment you're not that good at them.
Anonymous at Wed, 20 Sep 2023 01:40:30 UTC No. 167701
>>167647
Kengan is a fucking insult to the reader at this point. Its bad when Plebbit and 4channel both agree that the nanga has become garbage
Anonymous at Wed, 20 Sep 2023 04:01:08 UTC No. 167724
>>167694
In my experience Judo and JJ throw game is a lot more sophisticated.
Didn't IKO-1 make dogi grabs and throws tournament legal a few years back?
Anonymous at Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:29:07 UTC No. 167737
>>167654
>No style has all of the answers
Style should not have all the answers, it is impossible, style should be specialized. I don't need some shitty goju ryu with three and halve shitty non working throws and some cringe palm strikes, if want throws I go to judo or wrestling, if I want punches - I'll choose something with punch specialization.
Anonymous at Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:43:22 UTC No. 167752
>>167724
>In my experience Judo and JJ throw game is a lot more sophisticated
Judo goes without saying, JJ will depend heavily on the practicioner. Anyway, my point is encouraging karatekas to become better at standup grappling would be better than simply gimping the fighters' ability to grapple properly.
Anonymous at Wed, 20 Sep 2023 17:13:20 UTC No. 167801
>>167694
Not only grabs and grappling concepts. Kyo originally had daito ryu techniques and internal training from taikiken.
The first kyokushin was a really good package. But weapons, it had EVERYTHING.
Suddenly it was like kyo believed its own advertising
>WE ARE THE STRONGEST KARATE
>WE ARE BADASS
And then it became a parody of itself with such stupid kumite: a real display of will (no one doubt about it) and brute force but zero technique, zero control of space, zero martial knowledge.
Anonymous at Wed, 20 Sep 2023 17:29:50 UTC No. 167807
>>167801
The narrow niche of sports kumite is cringe, no argument there.
Max Dedik's guys compete everywhere and kick everyone's ass.
People forget that your instructor is a larger determining factor in the quality of your training than the lable on your gi
Anonymous at Wed, 20 Sep 2023 17:50:06 UTC No. 167812
>>167801
>zero technique, zero control of space, zero martial knowledge
Try knocking people out with a roundhouse from clinch range, then tell me how unskilled high level kyo karatekas are.
Anonymous at Wed, 20 Sep 2023 17:56:16 UTC No. 167813
>>167801
LMAO, typical beginner mindset
>to have le ultimate martial art, let's mix everything with less rules possible, how is it gonna work? I don't know
Also
>stupid kyokushin kumite
>zero technique
And from here I got it - you are retarded
Anonymous at Fri, 22 Sep 2023 00:03:57 UTC No. 168066
>>167396
I visited a Kyo dojo today, it's near the physical location of tlmy company's office so I could train there after work, I hadn't thought about that yet because I work from home, but I do have the freedom to go to the office on my own.
I thought it was pretty alright, the shihan was pretty /fit/ for a middle aged dude and the students were a mix with at least a handful of adults in shape and looking committed, one of them was a brown belt and looked like he competed from the discoloured patch on the dogi's back. They had quite a few trophies and medals on the walls and the place fucking reeked of sweat, which is a good sign. They also had a lot of heavy and technique bags, as well as a makiwara and a ring for fighting (they also offer kickboxing classes there on some days of the week, though the place's owner is the shihan and Kyo is their focus). Receptionist was pretty cute too.
They tried to sell me their own equipment, which is a usually a red flag for me, but the gear was quality and slightly below market rates from what I can see. Something that bothered me a bit is that they offer fighting for fitness classes inside the dojo, but I'm not sure if it's their business or just something they rent out the place for. Either way they didn't try to hustle that as actual fighting skills and the Kyo part itself seemed legit enough, they had pictures of all their black belts and they looked to be at least 10 of them, and they operate under one of the major Kyo organisations, but I can't tell which. The logo was that white circle with a red shuriken looking thingy, but I believe there's more than one organisation using that, right?
It looked decent enough, it's fairly affordable and kinda convenient if I start going to the office instead of working from home.
Anonymous at Fri, 22 Sep 2023 00:34:36 UTC No. 168071
>>168066
Kyokushin its the best karate
Anonymous at Fri, 22 Sep 2023 01:14:41 UTC No. 168080
>>168071
Maybe, maybe not. I don't need the best, just good enough, the rest is up to me.
Anonymous at Sun, 24 Sep 2023 20:45:04 UTC No. 168619
Why does old Shotokan kumite look so much more intense and fucked up? Why does olympic kumite look so gay where you win when you get knocked out?
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy
Anonymous at Sun, 24 Sep 2023 20:54:53 UTC No. 168621
>>168619
> Old School.
Because they were mainly doing Karate as FIGHTING sports as an Japanese alternative to the western boxing.
Anonymous at Sun, 24 Sep 2023 21:46:45 UTC No. 168637
>>167813
If they were any good at fighting they would be able to fight in other sports
They can't because they aren't
Anonymous at Sun, 24 Sep 2023 21:53:36 UTC No. 168640
>>168619
Different sport rules. Ruleset creates martial art, not collection of techniques
Anonymous at Sun, 24 Sep 2023 21:58:15 UTC No. 168641
>>168637
Ofcourse you are wrong, because by your logic boxing has 0 technique because pure boxer cant fight in MMA. Technique is the best way to apply strength, nothing more.
Anonymous at Sun, 24 Sep 2023 22:06:21 UTC No. 168645
>>168641
nah boxing definitely has technique to it, head movement, defensive parrying, footwork
none of that in kyokushin which is just a toughness contest. But even then a boxer isn't under the illusion that he'd do well against a kickboxer or something, kyokuconmen think they're as good as muay thai because allegedly 60 years ago they won 2/3 matches against literal whos. The fact thats the only example that keeps getting brought up is even more pathetic
a boxer would to better in MMA though if he's able to stick to a gameplan where he controls range and hits stiff 1 2s just like strickland did
the range at which kyokushin "fights" would get absolutely bodied by grapplers
unlike every other combat sport its unique in that it has effectively zero applicable crossover into MMA, it has nothing worthwhile in the entire art. Anything it does something else is better at
Anonymous at Sun, 24 Sep 2023 22:15:38 UTC No. 168646
>>168619
Because the Olympic Committee has made its goal to wreck every martial art it touches.
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 00:30:45 UTC No. 168690
>>168645
How did you come up with such a retarded conclusion?
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 01:16:59 UTC No. 168704
>>168690
they can't fight. Wrestlers don't take kyokushin lessons when they transition to MMA, they take boxing lessons
B-BUT GSP!
was good because of his aggressive wrestling, as far as striking goes he got KO'd by a terminal manlet jiujitsu guy of all people
I was just talking to serra yesterday actually, I always forget how fucking tiny he is
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 05:33:44 UTC No. 168754
>>168704
The reason why wrestlers don't learn a complicated kick-striking art is because they already got a solid ground on to which to add basic punches for a stand up game improvement, boxing is simple, 1-2 followed by a hook, nothing much else you have to figure out for it as a wrestling guy, strikers have problems adapting to MMA if they aren't open minded about grappling techniques.
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 08:06:15 UTC No. 168770
>>168645
>this MA has no thechnique because their fighters """unable""" to fight in the other MA (whatever that means)
>B-BUT THIS MA WHOSE FIGHTERS ALSO CAN'T FIGHT IN ANOTHER MA HAS TECHNIQUE BECAUSE...... *wall of text*
I don't think Andy Hug was relearning kick technique from taekwondo or something to fight in K1, he clearly used what he learned in kyokushin. You are obviously retarded, please take pills
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 08:08:46 UTC No. 168771
>>168704
Fighters don't take greco roman wrestling lessons when they transition to MMA, they take grappling/freestyle wrestling lessons. Now imagine saying greco roman wrestling doesn't have technique
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 08:22:05 UTC No. 168776
>>168771
Judo is even better example.
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 12:04:31 UTC No. 168797
>>168704
Most take MT lessons. I would attribute this to Kyokushin just being more exotic then MT or espically Boxing
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 12:40:06 UTC No. 168803
>>168797
Karate, even Kyokushin, is a martial art and has several elements that aren't supposed to quickly translate into fighting ability. MT, Kickboxing, Boxing, etc. are combat sports stripped out of most practices that don't make you good at fighting in a ring with training regimens geared towards churning out competent strikers fast. It's obvious why people looking into MMA avoid Karate, they don't have several years to dedicate themselves to it, usually they have just a couple years, maybe even just a few months.
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 14:12:47 UTC No. 168811
>>168803
These are factors too but i still would attribute the exoticness/aviableness as the most common reason why its not such a common art in MMA plus that tournaments are often no head punches
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 14:48:53 UTC No. 168814
>>168811
Head punches aren't an issue desu, they're easy to learn how to deal with well enough if your base is already solid, probably gonna take a few months of dedicated practice to get down for someone looking to transition. I think it's mainly a time investment thing. In one year you can make someone dedicated a boxer that can fight professionally, but in one year you won't make a Kyo guy that can even compete in tournaments on the regional level.
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:05:21 UTC No. 168828
It's funny how there are 2 karate threads actively going right now and both have devolved into kyos desperately trying to justify themselves
W-we're the s-s-strongest! S-stop making fun of us!!!
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:22:55 UTC No. 168832
>>168828
I'm on both of those threads and I don't see anyone claiming Kyokushin is the strongest martial art.
Please provide the evidence that backs up your claim.
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Sep 2023 20:19:03 UTC No. 168882
>>168828
You have to go back
Anonymous at Tue, 26 Sep 2023 23:41:34 UTC No. 169173
>>168646
>Because the Olympic Committee
It is self-inflicted damage. The world federation is destroying any martial trait in pursuit of being an Olympic SPORT. And the sad and comical thing is that it is not even an Olympic sport and it is difficult for it to become one.
It is killing karate in exchange for nothing.
Anonymous at Wed, 27 Sep 2023 00:59:24 UTC No. 169187
>>168828
They literally are because no other karate style its that autistic over fighting and strength
Anonymous at Wed, 27 Sep 2023 13:26:54 UTC No. 169257
>>168619
I used to look down on Shotokan until I read up on how Kokushikan University allowed face punches (bare knuckle btw). Unfortunately, there were too many covered-up incidents of students getting brutalized. Even foreigners.
I'm all for having a sport version of Karate so long as it doesn't seriously injure or kill its participants. But it also can't be a ballet; they have to let them strike, throw, sweep, clinch, and trap at full force too.
Anonymous at Wed, 27 Sep 2023 13:34:25 UTC No. 169259
>>169257
>they have to let them strike, throw, sweep, clinch, and trap at full force too
Such sports already exist, if you create another one copy of that, two things happen:
1) either no one will care about it, small amount of students, low rivalry
2) or no one will train for them by studying karate, sportsmen will learn boxing, wrestling, bjj etc on the side.
See kudo and combat sambo. I'm from post USSR country and despite all memes combat samboists who compete study boxing and grappling additionally (and they are usually already wrestler or sport samoists). Same with kudo.
Anonymous at Wed, 27 Sep 2023 13:50:40 UTC No. 169266
>>168770
Andy trained in boxing under ex-champ Akinobu Hiranaka to prepare for K-1. He along with other Kyokushin and Seidokaikan fighters also had to cross-train in Muay Thai to deal with the clinch. But kicking-wise, Andy had it all. I wish I could axe kick like him.
Anonymous at Wed, 27 Sep 2023 13:57:51 UTC No. 169269
>>169266
No surprise since kicking is the most powerful part of kyokushin and kicking is big part of kickboxing. But kicking is small part of mixed arts where wrestling and grappling take huge part and often become much much more important. Mixed martial artists can go well with just boxing and wrestling/grappling, without good kicking. Karate is bad base for such sports and probably will never be.
Anonymous at Wed, 27 Sep 2023 14:02:02 UTC No. 169271
>>169269
Lucien Carbin begs to differ. I don't like most karate styles, but Kyokushin is legit and Carbin says that he recommends Kyokushin as a very good foundation for Muay Thai. Kyokushin fighters are tough as fuck and can take the kicks and knees from any stadium ranked Nak Muay as well as dish it out. Their obvious weakness is not dealing with face punches and elbows obviously though in its early conception, Oyama's students would wrap towels around their hands and beat the shit out of each other or use boxing gloves. And Kyokushin tournaments used to allow grabbing the gi and allowing continued knees.
And yeah cross-training is the whole point of MMA, you blend other styles to fill in your gaps. There's no shame in that. Same goes for karateka that become kickboxers.
Anonymous at Wed, 27 Sep 2023 15:31:42 UTC No. 169281
>>169271
If a large amount of your training is based around getting tough so you can take hits you're basically making an admission that your martial art sucks, the whole point is to take as little damage as possible
And not only that but you can only condition superficial targets anyway. you can't condition your chin or your brain, you can't condition your liver, you can't condition your perineal nerves, you can't condition your solar plexus and diaphragm
BUT I CAN HANDLE THE PAIN!
it's not about pain, targeting these areas is doing neurological damage. People don't go down because it hurts people go down because they're having critical electrical impulses interrupted
This idea of body conditioning is operating under the same misguided thoughts as bullshit Kung fu iron body training
Ironically with all this conditioning you have never seen more people crumple to body shots than in kyokushin matches because instead of having fundamentally sound defense they just stand there and take body shots
Anonymous at Wed, 27 Sep 2023 15:34:25 UTC No. 169282
>>169281
I agree that standing there and tanking shots is retarded. I prefer to evade and parry than getting blasted in the face or body. At some point, you will take damage so it's best to toughen up your body AND hone your defense and elusiveness.
🗑️ Anonymous at Wed, 27 Sep 2023 16:26:38 UTC No. 169292
>>>/vg/447875110
Artificial Academy 2 General /aa2g/ #1293
Ready to Serve Edition
Welcome, this general is for the discussion of ILLUSION's Artificial Academy 2.
COPY ERROR MESSAGES WITH CTRL+C, PASTE THEM WITH CTRL+V INTO GOOGLE TRANSLATE. JUST CLICK THE WINDOW AND PRESS CTRL + C, IT WORKS.
>Downloads:
/aa2g/ Pre-Installed Game, AA2Mini: https://tsukiyo.me/AAA/AA2MiniPPX.x
AAUnlimited updates: https://github.com/aa2g/AA2Unlimite
>Information:
AA2Mini Install Guide:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/
General FAQ:
https://web.archive.org/web/2020021
AAU Guide and Resources (Modules, Tans, Props, Poses, and More):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet
>Character Cards [Database], now with a list of every NonOC in the megas:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet
https://db.bepis.moe/aa2/
>Mods & More:
Mods for AAU/AA2Mini (ppx format, the mediafire has everything):
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/vw
/aa2g/ Modding Reference Guide (Slot lists for Hair/Clothes/Faces, List Guides, and More):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet
Booru: https://aau.booru.org
>HELP! I have a Nvidia card and my game crashes on startup!
Try the dgVoodoo option in the new win10fix settings.
Alternative: Update your AAU and see if it happens again. If so, disable win10fix, enable wined3d and software vertex processing.
>HELP! Required Windows 11 update broke things!
winkey+R -> ms-settings:developers -> Terminal=Windows Console Host
Previous Thread:
>>>/vg/445943839
🗑️ . at Wed, 27 Sep 2023 16:37:56 UTC No. 169296
>>>/vg/447875110
Artificial Academy 2 General /aa2g/ #1293
Ready to Serve Edition
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Previous Thread:
>>>/vg/445943839
Anonymous at Thu, 28 Sep 2023 00:12:25 UTC No. 169361
>itt pajeets who have never trained any form of karate arguing with pajeets who watched a few videos about shinken shobu online
Go and train kyokushin, find the answer for yourself.
Anonymous at Sun, 1 Oct 2023 15:38:22 UTC No. 170041
>Came from different martial arts backgrounds
>Decided to do Shotokan for fun
>It is fun
>REALLY FUN
>Still don't understand why I should wear a gi tho
Also the dojo doesn't have a yellow belt level and from the list of katas I found Sanchin (Sensei learned karate from the 70's or even earlier). Always thought Shotokan didn't have sanchin until I found out that they did back in the day.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE
Sensei also teaches judo.
Anonymous at Sun, 1 Oct 2023 15:45:45 UTC No. 170047
>>169257
>I used to look down on Shotokan
Same! Until I started doing Shotokan earlier this month. It's heaps fun. My background in Muay Thai and Kung Fu made the kihon and the basic katas really easy. Didn't expect it to be this enjoyable. I thought it would be gay as fuck and I'll just leave after 2 classes. Maybe it's because the sensei where I go to used to be a cop in a really shitty and crime-ridden part of town before retiring and opening up his school.
Anonymous at Sun, 1 Oct 2023 20:34:42 UTC No. 170097
>>170041
Karate that doesn't have Sanchin is retarded its like a Kung Fu school without the horse stance.
Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 06:58:29 UTC No. 170163
>>170097
Karate that has any of old katas is retarded
Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 07:31:08 UTC No. 170166
>>170153
Yes, Naihanchi is different from Sanchin.
It comes down to old styles differences (shuri-te and naha-te).
That said any kata must be complemented with sparring practice or your karate will be missing something.
Anonymous at Mon, 2 Oct 2023 07:49:02 UTC No. 170168
>>167701
Kengan Ashura is better, Kengan Omega on the other hand turns shit pretty fast.
Anonymous at Tue, 3 Oct 2023 21:00:18 UTC No. 170370
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHD
>5 stupid things Karate teaches you
Well, /kg/...
Anonymous at Tue, 3 Oct 2023 21:26:49 UTC No. 170374
>>170370
I agree with the first point, I never liked that technique due to the flex in the ankle being a weak point
but he's looking at it through the lens of kickboxing competitions, not bare knuckle brawling
if you go back to the 1800s british pugilism and okinawan toudi were mirroring each other and doing so independently of each other. When you have the industrialized urban center of the world intersecting with rural farmers on an island in the middle of nowhere there must be something to it.
his final point was a misunderstanding though, and not his fault because people just mindlessly copy kata with no regard for the meaning of it so I doubt it was ever explained to him, and also doubt the person teaching him even knew the correct explanation. but those weird simultaneous attacks are a principle of blocking and striking simultaneously. Don't block then counter attack, like you're taking turns going 1 for 1. counter attack as you're blocking, take your turn then take it again then take it again and don't give him one
Anonymous at Wed, 4 Oct 2023 14:10:50 UTC No. 170443
>>170370
I don't know if karate teaches you wrong moves or just karate is taught wrongly.
Seeing how Karate originally had options in the clinch, worked on grappling and dislocations and had NO high kicks... it's almost the latter.
Much was lost. Karate became an educational sport in Japan. And in the West the weaboos of the day taught their students techniques they didn't understand which in turn transferred the mistakes to their students... for 50 years.
Anonymous at Wed, 4 Oct 2023 14:56:35 UTC No. 170446
>>170370
Did the guy do too many cigars or get choked out?
Anonymous at Wed, 4 Oct 2023 15:46:21 UTC No. 170455
>>170370
>Muh double strike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kv
Okay not gonna lie kicking with that part of the foot or the toes does seem stupid. Training barefoot for me seems so stupid. Even the illustrations of the bubishi show them wearing shoes. Kung fu was used to be practiced wearing boots. Wait til you see what combat boots looked like back then and toe kicks make a lot more sense.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su
>>170374
Are there any books about bareknuckle boxing/pugilism. My main source for improving my kihon is from a kickboxing manual, and my muay thai and kung fu background. I thought about cross training to other kung fu styles closer to karate like southern kung fu styles (I did Bajiquan, a northern style) but found out that some of the schools are fucking cultish as fuck. It's gay.
Anonymous at Wed, 4 Oct 2023 15:48:48 UTC No. 170456
>>170455
Only retard would think that pics 1, 2 and 3 are somehow connected
Anonymous at Wed, 4 Oct 2023 15:54:25 UTC No. 170459
>>170374
>>170443
It's the cultural evolution of okinawan karate to japanese karate.
From adopting the gi to leaving out part of the curriculum, to not overlap with that of judo or similar, including emphasis on flashy techniques and impressive formations of kata that looks like a rehearsed static "military march". The most damaging aspect is the lack of "humbling" experiences in training that come trough real hard physical training and "real" or quasireal sparring.
Anonymous at Wed, 4 Oct 2023 16:07:56 UTC No. 170461
>>170455
>Training barefoot for me seems so stupid.
Another part of the okinawan to japanese adaptation. Traditional karate was taught mostly with shoes on and bare chested. Mostly sandals were worn as it was the most usual footwear but whatever footwear you wore was acceptable. As training in japan was done in the beautiful halls with wood floor, footwear was discarded as per japanese tradition.
As for the books about boxing or pugilism there are a lot of free old complete manuals around:
https://www.google.es/search?q=boxi
Anonymous at Wed, 4 Oct 2023 16:16:09 UTC No. 170463
>>170461
Thanks, anon.
Anonymous at Wed, 4 Oct 2023 19:27:36 UTC No. 170514
>>170461
Not bare-chested usually with a wife beater, either way, the reason barefooted training also is beneficial is because it trains the calf muscles, do hindu squats with shoes and then without socks or shoes.
See the difference?
Anonymous at Thu, 5 Oct 2023 17:59:36 UTC No. 170662
Can Taikyoku Shodan be done with dynamic tension like Sanchin? Saw some old dude in his 70s do it and he's in top shape!
Anonymous at Thu, 5 Oct 2023 18:17:55 UTC No. 170668
>>170662
Katas are rubbish and useless
Anonymous at Thu, 5 Oct 2023 19:34:06 UTC No. 170677
>>170514
There were no wife-beaters in ancient Okinawa.
Funakoshi described how karate was taught: in regular day clothes, they remove the shirts (for comfort and movement) and trained in the dark, after regular work, in the mountains, outside the villages or in inner yards some great houses had.
I don't doubt there are benefits to train barefooted but the reason they do it now in karate it's purely cultural. They changed adults in whatever terrain in whatever clothes or footwear (they didn't care about that, just the karate itself) to a wide array of people of all ages in a safe enviroment indoors (japanese dojo) in a standarized uniform (karate-gi).
Anonymous at Thu, 5 Oct 2023 20:38:30 UTC No. 170683
>>170674
>shadow boxing is an art
Who da fuck says that? Its place is in the warm up, no one makes shadow boxing championships
Anonymous at Thu, 5 Oct 2023 20:47:32 UTC No. 170685
>>170683
whenever you have a new coach they always start you with shadow boxing, because they can tell right out of the gate just by watching you for 2 minutes if you suck or not
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 08:32:42 UTC No. 170783
>>170685
>not a single question answered
Typical TMAfag
>whenever you have a new coach they always start you with shadow boxing, because they can tell right out of the gate just by watching you for 2 minutes if you suck or not
Yeah, and you know how can't you judge if someone sucks in fight or not? By watching him doing kata (because shadow boxing has nothing to do with kata and katas are useless rubbish)
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 08:36:56 UTC No. 170785
>>170688
>traditional means old
lol, lmao even
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 08:55:21 UTC No. 170789
>>170674
> Makiwara makes punches better.
Nobody says that it trains the knuckles to feel less pain when you punch that's the whole point of a makiwara/knuckle push ups.
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 15:09:46 UTC No. 170833
>>170783
You've failed to articulate the difference
>>170789
Wrong.
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 15:43:29 UTC No. 170837
>>170833
>You've failed to articulate the difference
That's because you are retarded
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 15:55:37 UTC No. 170841
>>170836
That image describes muay thai perfectly
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 15:56:38 UTC No. 170842
>>170837
Still can't do it XD
Because functionally they're the exact same thing
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 16:11:46 UTC No. 170844
>>170841
I guess you are thinking geometry is land measurement because this is how it started
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 16:46:41 UTC No. 170850
>>170842
>uses techniques and tempos not suitable for fight
>bunkais out of fantasies that will never be tested in sparrings or with resisting opponent
>to keep interest to kata incorporating kata competitions
>"Still can't do it XD"
kek
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 16:57:12 UTC No. 170851
>>170844
Bro thai fighters literally start every fight dressed up in costumes dancing to live music
Your cognitive dissonance is showing
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:05:53 UTC No. 170852
>>170851
Do they assessed in competitions by how they dance or by how they fight? Is a fighter who has more wins better than a fighter who has no wins but dances better? Do people do muay thai to learn how to fight or to learn how to dance?
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:11:28 UTC No. 170854
>>170688
>>170785
>>170831
>>170836
>>170841
>>170844
>>170851
NTA here, but when people refer to "traditional" in terms of martial arts, I think they're referring to having the same dogmatic adherence to training and tactics when the respective style was formed and with little to no adoption of advances in physical conditioning, tools, safety equipment, etc.
Muay Thai having its fighters wear the mongkon and pra jiad to honor the pre-fight ritual and their respective schools is aesthetic as fuck as well as the Thai classical music when bouts are done. It doesn't take away from its performance as a hard-hitting combat sport. Or Nak Muays doing the ram muay wai kru.
Kyokushin is an example of a karate style that isn't traditional. Oyama and Kurosaki took Shotokan, Goju ryu, boxing, judo, Daito Ryu Aikijutsu, and later Muay Thai influence to develop a tough-as-nails style of training. In the 1950's and early 1960's, Oyama would have his students train with boxing gloves during sparring or they would wrap towels around their hands during kumite. General Choi of ITF TKD had some of his students spar with Kyokushin karateka (Oyama and Choi got along well and were apparently blood brothers); to which the TKD guys remarked that Oyama's students were like brick walls. Kyokushin derives from traditional styles, but applied ever-changing training methods to toughen you up mentally and physically.
I'm not saying that new automatically discounts the older methods, but everything adapts and changes to the course of time. I don't need to kick a banana tree to condition my shins when there's sandbags and tires to do so. Not to mention shin pads.
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:14:47 UTC No. 170855
>>170852
I'm just interested in hearing the mental gymnastics you're going to try and perform to argue that muay Thai, a martial art dating back to the 1600s that includes costumes music dancing and ritualistic prayers and is a cultural gem for a nation is not a traditional martial art, but American kempo which is a bunch of white guys larping since the 1960s and making things up is a traditional martial art
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:16:39 UTC No. 170856
>>170854
>NTA here, but when people refer to "traditional" in terms of martial arts, I think they're referring to having the same dogmatic adherence to training and tactics when the respective style was formed and with little to no adoption of advances in physical conditioning, tools, safety equipment, etc.
Exactly. Main point of TMA is to keep tradition - use traditional methods and traditional equipment. Boxing may be older than karate, but boxing is "modern" because it doesn't care about keeping tradition in using training methods and equipment. Boxer will use whatever coach or himself thinks is effective for preparation to fight.
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:16:57 UTC No. 170857
>>170443
>Seeing how Karate originally had options in the clinch, worked on grappling and dislocations and had NO high kicks... it's almost the latter.
>Much was lost. Karate became an educational sport in Japan. And in the West the weaboos of the day taught their students techniques they didn't understand which in turn transferred the mistakes to their students... for 50 years.
So fucking true
The 3 aspects of Ryukyuan karate that are largely missing in Japanese and other styles derived from them are the following:
- Tui-de; the grappling/trapping aspects of close-in fighting
- Boshi-ken: the thumb punch
- Sokusen or tsumasaki geri; the toe kick
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:24:07 UTC No. 170858
>>170856
Exactly. I mean, boxing used to be bare-knuckle as this anon >>170374's pic shows. Back in the 1700's and up until the mid-1800's, prizefighting allowed purring kicks, throws/trips, shoulder hits as well as punches/open palm strikes.
Then, gloves, timed rounds, and other changes were implemented. A bare-knuckle champion would have difficulties adapting to Marquess of Queensberry rules and a pugilistic champion to bare-knuckle.
There's nothing with preserving tradition so long as it doesn't hinder the development and effectiveness of the art. I'm the kind of info hoarder that wants physical copies (books, magazine articles, diagrams, handwritten notes, etc.) of fighting techniques of every style (armed and unarmed) as well as photos, videos, digital copies. Because once it's all preserved, later generations can examine and reassess the older methods and training to reincorporate or update.
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:27:20 UTC No. 170859
>>170855
No one cares about dances in muay thai. Can you even fail them so you will autolose a fight? No? Then I don't care, this is basically same shit as entering the ring to the music. MA is traditional if it uses traditional methods and if there is a bunch of old dudes that will make you use these traditional methods because they say so. Karate isn't modern because somehow everyone feels it is a crime to not to have katas even if you feel they are useless (see Ashihara Karate, Enshin Karate and Kudo examples).
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:31:31 UTC No. 170860
>>170859
>Ashihara Karate, Enshin Karate
In those 2 styles, much of the original kata from Kyokushin (which came from Shotokan & Goju) were abandoned in favor of new katas that focused on tai sabaki that Ashihara and Ninomiya favored.
>Kudo
It's become its own thing (though Nippon Kempo pre-dated it by several decades).
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:36:13 UTC No. 170863
>>170859
So you continue to maintain that Muay Thai techniques developed 400+years ago are not traditional, but American kempo is
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:37:45 UTC No. 170864
>>170860
Ashihara and enshin do have katas, they are just reinvented. But the thing is ashihara and enshin are considered to be karate STYLES, while kudo is not. And since kudo admits it is not karate style, it is free to not have katas.
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:39:36 UTC No. 170865
>>170863
>Muay Thai techniques developed 400+years ago are not traditional,
Not the anon you're responding to, but Muay Thai has been a hybrid art that constantly infused foreign elements and new training methods. Judo and Silat were added in centuries after Muay Boran was formulated. When boxing gloves were introduced in formal competition, they had to change the way they used hand strikes as well as scoring (even today punches don't score as well as technical power kicks to the body and head as well as knees and elbows since those 3 striking surfaces aren't covered).
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:40:22 UTC No. 170866
>>170863
I continue to maintain that "traditional" in "TMA" has nothing to do with how old something is. Boxing may be older than karate but boxing is modern and karate is traditional. I'm not american and I don't know what american kempo is.
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:43:11 UTC No. 170867
>>170866
>Boxing may be older than karate but boxing is modern and karate is traditional.
Exactly, traditional refers to not changing.
BJJ (became its own thing in the 1920s) pre-dates a lot of karate styles but it's hardly traditional. It constantly adapts and incorporates stuff from old-school judo, wrestling (whether catch, luta livre, collegiate, freestyle, greco, etc.) and other grappling styles.
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:43:50 UTC No. 170868
>>170866
I reject your attempt to now start redefining words because the reality doesn't reflect your bias since we've established traditional martial arts are the good ones (that's why they still persist after centuries) and the modern ones are the bad ones
So now you're just trying to move goal posts with this idea of traditional is actually just this subjective standard of how dogmatic the community is when they practice it
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 17:53:39 UTC No. 170870
>>170867
>traditional refers to not changing.
That makes no sense, the season sport karate and TKD even exist is because the traditional martial art changed
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 18:17:15 UTC No. 170872
>>170868
>I reject your attempt to now start redefining words
Fucking LMAO. You probably think people should find out word meanings from dictionaries.
Here is meaning of "martial art" from dictionary.cambridge
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/di
>a sport that is a traditional Japanese or Chinese form of fighting or defending yourself
OMG, Muay Thai isn't traditional because it is not from Japan or China! But the most terrible thing this dictionary doesn't have definition of "traditional martial art", so we will never know what is it LMAO.
Definitions are not something people find out from dictionaries, it's something people find out from context.
>because the reality doesn't reflect your
It's vice versa. Your reality is some cringe made up pictures like this >>170688 while most people naturally know that boxing and wrestling are modern MA and karate is TMA. My definitions explains precisely WHY PEOPLE FEEL boxing is modern and karate is TMA even if boxing may be older than karate. Your way - TMA is something old. How old? How to set boundaries? No one knows. How even to find out do we have same boxing with another gloves compared to old boxing (so we have continuous tradition) or is this two different sports that happened to have same names, like in pankration? With "my" definition we don't have such problems, we just need too look at modern state of MA - if keeps tradition or not.
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 18:36:34 UTC No. 170877
>>170872
Nah you're just misusing words to fit a narrative
I don't need YOUR definition, the words traditional and modern have definitions already
Ok so let's use the correct definitions
Traditional judo had techniques such as the double leg takedown, ashi garami, leglocks
Modern judo you get disqualified for accidentally touching someone's pants
CHANGE GOOD! according to you. It's totally modern after all! Look at how they changed it so it better because traditional bad
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 19:32:33 UTC No. 170881
>>170877
>traditional and modern have definitions already
Too bad sum of term definitions doesn't give you definition of new term. See my example with geometry. If you want closer example, how do you get
>a sport that is a traditional Japanese or Chinese form of fighting or defending yourself
from definition of word "martial"
>relating to soldiers, war, or life in the armed forces
and word "art"?
>the making of objects, images, music, etc. that are beautiful or that express feelings
>CHANGE GOOD! according to you
LMAO, totally made up, give citation. I only said karate katas are rubbish, not that all changes are rubbish.
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 19:36:26 UTC No. 170883
>>170881
>katas are rubbish
Wrong
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 19:36:50 UTC No. 170884
>>170877
>Ok so let's use the correct definitions
>Traditional judo had techniques such as the double leg takedown, ashi garami, leglocks
>Modern judo you get disqualified for accidentally touching someone's pants
Also, you think this changes are bad because le bad sport committee tries to destroy sport or what? Do you think you can make freestyle wrestling better by allowing punches? Interested in your opinion
Anonymous at Fri, 6 Oct 2023 19:42:29 UTC No. 170885
>>170883
Sorry, I'll correct myself - they are absolutely necessary for kata competitions
Anonymous at Sat, 7 Oct 2023 21:04:45 UTC No. 171038
>>170456
cool cope no kata, bro
Anonymous at Mon, 9 Oct 2023 08:21:07 UTC No. 171256
>>171038
>fart
Anonymous at Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:53:17 UTC No. 171405
>>171403
>things your opponent never said: the post
Or maybe you just blind? There is no shadowboxing in that pics
Anonymous at Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:33:52 UTC No. 171409
Anonymous at Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:54:10 UTC No. 171411
>>171405
left one is literally taken of a clip from a shadowboxing video by him on youtube... Kata is what shadowboxing to combat sports, modular practice to drill techniques in sequences. You can always take a piece by piece of the kata and drill them if you find something that works and want to speed up the process for utility.
Anonymous at Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:04:37 UTC No. 171415
>>170864
imo would be kino if it would still teach a form of sanchin kata to beginners as a warm up.
Anonymous at Tue, 10 Oct 2023 16:01:56 UTC No. 171419
What are karate katas for? From my kung fu experience I was told that it's a gallery of all the techniques so as to not forget it or something. The rest is just sparring and conditioning (or committing murder if you were in the 1600s or something). I found the Taikyoku and Heian katas as a nice warm up (other than kihon, light stretching, and calisthenics) in the morning before going to work. I mean what the fuck are you going to do? Spar on a work day?
Anonymous at Wed, 11 Oct 2023 09:21:35 UTC No. 171540
Anonymous at Wed, 11 Oct 2023 12:44:38 UTC No. 171555
>Kata is what shadowboxing to combat sports, modular practice to drill techniques in sequences.
LMAO no, that's just totally wrong.
Your problem is you are thinking technique is the sequence of body movements, so if you are repeat this sequence over and over you are LE WORKING ON TECHNIQUE. But technique is the most efficient way to APPLY STRENGTH (to something).
Here is example - arm drag, and here we have some shitty karateka doing arm drag.
https://youtu.be/8PtYD_6W7BY?t=65
The sequence of body movements in arm drag is extremely simple, in its purest kata-like way it might be described something like this: you almost straighten your left arm, you lower your right arm from somewhere near the middle of your chest to hip level, and then you pulling your left arm while moving around your imaginable opponent. It may look long in text but it is extremely simple SEQUENCE OF MOVEMENTS, you don't even need to memorize it longer than 30 seconds. But if you memorized this sequence, that doesn't mean you learnt the technique, because to learn technique you need SOME MASS TO MOVE - actual opponent's arm mass to drag. And it can be relaxed, it can be heavy, it can be light, it can be resisting, and what's more important this hand could perform another movement while you decided to make an arm drag, it can react to your grabs etc and etc.
And kata lovers suggest to learn arm drag this way - perform some dance for 30-60 min of a workout, where this arm drag (remember, we thinking it's an arm drag because sensei fantasized that it is) appears only one or two times per kata run, then once a week perform this arm drag as bunkai in completely different way (I will stress it later) on non resisting opponent and THAT'S ALL. And you don't even have adequate conditions (sport competitions for example) to test your arm drag ON RESISTING OPPONENT, because competition ruleset you have doesn't create conditions to use it - neither kyokushin nor WKF karate rulesets have them.
Anonymous at Wed, 11 Oct 2023 12:49:09 UTC No. 171556
I'm not even saying about the fact that the arm drag IN KATA from that kata video looks like total shit - hand movements are cringe but also because when you do arm drag you need to move in the opposite direction from the opponent. And here lies another problem with all these katas - in kata the guy makes some movements with his hands while he just stands rigidly and straight as a pillar, but in bunkai, in order for the armdrag to work, he has to move in the opposite from opponent direction.
So why do boxers and kickboxers can do their punches and kicks and "work on technique" without opponent? That's because of punches and kicks nature - they are basically a throws (you are throwing your OWN arms and legs, so it is useful to just practice to throw them). But even in area of punches and kicks katas are useless because you very often
freeze after straighten an arm in punch, you have strange stances, and overall you just can "shadowbox" like a normal person without katas.
Overall, katas are useless both for grappling and striking techniques.
>>171555
Anonymous at Wed, 11 Oct 2023 12:53:14 UTC No. 171558
Anonymous at Wed, 11 Oct 2023 16:17:45 UTC No. 171590
>>171419
Depends on the kata. Kata like sanchin, tensho, naihanchi are tanren kata for specific strength training.
Other katas are gymnastical like the modern Heian ones, or train biomechanics and certain fighting behaviors, like stylized shadow boxing if you will.
"Technique collection" kata exist but they're all very modern from 20th century styles, eg. in Enshin Karate. It's not the main reason for kata training.
Anonymous at Wed, 11 Oct 2023 16:20:57 UTC No. 171592
>>171555
>>171556
Just because a technique isn't done like in your style doesn't mean it's wrong. Many ways to skin a cat.
You'd have to try it out in a fight to see if it works.
The video is wrong btw. Again, it's not a technique collection. I'm not familiar with the kata in question, but it could be anything from a bad kata execution which makes the move seem different to its original meaning, to some kind of qigong shit.
Anonymous at Fri, 13 Oct 2023 00:32:57 UTC No. 171826
Why did Okinawa never adopted the butterfly swords? in kobudo? Te already mostly came from southern styles of kung fu but they never bothered adopting shit like the trident, spear, or the butterfly swords.
Anonymous at Fri, 13 Oct 2023 00:52:27 UTC No. 171828
>>171592
>some kind of qigong shit.
That's clearly not Sanchin or Tensho.
🗑️ Anonymous at Fri, 13 Oct 2023 02:34:45 UTC No. 171840
>>>/vg/449160740
Artificial Academy 2 General /aa2g/ #1294b
TRL Edition
Welcome, this general is for the discussion of ILLUSION's Artificial Academy 2.
COPY ERROR MESSAGES WITH CTRL+C, PASTE THEM WITH CTRL+V INTO GOOGLE TRANSLATE. JUST CLICK THE WINDOW AND PRESS CTRL + C, IT WORKS.
>Downloads:
/aa2g/ Pre-Installed Game, AA2Mini: https://tsukiyo.me/AAA/AA2MiniPPX.x
AAUnlimited updates: https://github.com/aa2g/AA2Unlimite
>Information:
AA2Mini Install Guide:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/
General FAQ:
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AAU Guide and Resources (Modules, Tans, Props, Poses, and More):
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>HELP! I have a Nvidia card and my game crashes on startup!
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Previous Thread:
>>449118276
>>447875110
Anonymous at Fri, 13 Oct 2023 16:55:03 UTC No. 171902
>>166699
I've never heard of Redditors shilling Karate. Far from it, there's more supporters of MMA or Boxing on reddit because it's more practical.
In any case, Karate is more for the discipline, style, aesthetics and for being a decent foundation before moving on to other martial arts.
>>166703
This.
Anonymous at Sat, 14 Oct 2023 10:26:23 UTC No. 171973
Where's the stream of the Shinkyokushin World Karate Championship?
I can't find it.
Anonymous at Sat, 14 Oct 2023 17:42:43 UTC No. 172003
>>171826
Perphaps this is because of the difficulty to transport or make them there in Okinawa.
One chinese man could end up stranged in Okinawa and teach the local his fighting art with his naked hands (kung fu / te) but to travel there with a bunch of swords or the knowledge to make them is a much complicated matter.
Kobudo is probably a mix of older okinawa stuff plus some chinese stuff so only the weapons that were avaliable in both lands (like the long staff)would get the most benefit.
Also there is the historical context periods were weapons were banned or really restricted both in China (to leave in a boat) and in Okinawa (the end of the right to carry them openly by the warrior class). This needs a much deeper study.
Anonymous at Sat, 14 Oct 2023 18:18:45 UTC No. 172008
>>171592
>The video is wrong btw.
No doubt, bunkai are fantasies and no one knows what kata means. Katas are cringe and useless
Anonymous at Sat, 14 Oct 2023 23:34:37 UTC No. 172033
>karate its objectively wrong in many aspects and more and more people are starting to say it
Sure but how you convince the 60 years old instructor that has being training the same way his whole life?
Anonymous at Sun, 15 Oct 2023 10:24:22 UTC No. 172088
>>170674
kek based
this btfos the arrogant martial arts faggots from both trad and modern.
Anonymous at Sun, 15 Oct 2023 19:43:35 UTC No. 172132
>>170674
I don't get the part of "Yeah like he's just gonna stand there like that and let you do that in real life. Aren't you supposed to be, I don't know, taking the chance of actually doing that to someone trying to kill you. Also by yanking someone's arm with all your might and sloppily to subdue someone (frantically doing the "proper" technique and only half succeeding)? I doubt you're gonna emerge from that fight unscathed despite winning. Then again maybe that's why they make you do all that sanchin and hojo undo so you at least won't freeze up from shock and pain after someone breaks a rib or you dislocate your own arm after throwing someone.
Anonymous at Sun, 15 Oct 2023 20:56:41 UTC No. 172145
>>172132
Demonstrations and practice are not a real fight. Nobody would train a soldier by giving him a gun and dropping him off in a war zone. Most complains about "lack of resistance" are bullshit because they refer to drill training.
Even most judo classes are mostly drills with little resistance with partners taking turns being uke and tori and just some randori in the mix.
Another example: boxers don't spar hard all the time, most training is drill exercises or conditioning. I would not say they are not prepared for a physical confrontation.
Karate is the same: you learn the movement without resistance, get better, add resistance, get better, the movement becomes almost second nature and then you insert it in sparring if safe to perform. That simple.
Anonymous at Sun, 15 Oct 2023 23:41:13 UTC No. 172163
>>172145
>Most complains about "lack of resistance" are bullshit because they refer to drill training.
This
>Nobody would train a soldier by giving him a gun and dropping him off in a war zone.
Check that documentary about Philippine Scout Ranger training. Going to fight insurgents for a whole year is part of their training and a requirement to graduate the course.
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 09:30:47 UTC No. 172196
>>172145
>Karate is the same: you learn the movement without resistance, get better, add resistance, get better, the movement becomes almost second nature and then you insert it in sparring if safe to perform. That simple.
LMAO you are absolutely delusional and I wrote about these delusions multiple times. Show me any free sparring where karateka performs an arm drag that he learnt from kata. Show me any sparring where karateka performs standing choke from fantasy bunkai from bassai dai. You can't. They don't exist. Because in reality karatekas don't work with "le different resistances" (they work with air most time when they do katas and they work with non resisting opponent when they do bunkais) and they don't have proper competitional rulesets to test their fantasy bunkais with full resistance.
>Even most judo classes are mostly drills with little resistance with partners taking turns being uke and tori and just some randori in the mix.
Fucking mongoloid, they spend X time to drill TECHNIQUE, then Y time to implement this TECHNIQUE (sparrings on assignment, sparrings from position, combining techniques - and each of this thing done with different resistance) and you spend same X time only to do shitty kata where the TECHNIQUE occurs only ONCE in long kata run and than you do some bunkai once a week with 0 partner resistance, no sparrings on assignements, no sparrings from positions, with no combinational techniques. Lot of katas has element - releasing both hands from opponent's grip. How much time you did perform it with full opponent resistance? How much time you had an assignment - opponent grips your both hands, you must release and arm drag him or he can arm drag you? How much time worked you on combining this releasing technique and sweep or throw? How much times this situations happened in competitions with full opponent resistance? I can bet all my money safely that answers are "zeroes" and "never".
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 09:43:27 UTC No. 172197
>right here
>right now
>there is """people""" on this board
>that """think"""
>that this magic hand air movements somehow connected with partner drill demonstrated
>that opponent in black has some opportunity to increase resistance in the drill
>that this is the same how judokas or wrestlers drill techniques
>that any karate school will ever create conditions where this technique can be combined with any other technique or performed in competitions
JUST
FUCKING
LMAO
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 09:46:06 UTC No. 172198
>>172197
Bonus LMAO if someone writes "THIS IS WRONG BUNKAI!!!!"
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 13:49:59 UTC No. 172214
I'm thinking of making a rig for detachable arm for my heavy bag to practice blocking and counters. I just wanted to make heavy bag practice a bit more interesting. Who the fuck are you going to spar with at 2 in the morning anyway? Any of you anons have any ideas or have done something similar? Did Okinawan karatekas have wooden dummies back in the day?
>Why not buy one of those detachable things online?
Not available here.
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 16:20:22 UTC No. 172224
>>172214
Or you could practice sucking it off! That’s all you’ll ever do in a fight anyway!
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 16:28:44 UTC No. 172226
>>172214
Obviously the stick won't be the same material, but look at how boxers make slip stick attachments for ideas.
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 17:01:54 UTC No. 172227
>>172226
>but look at how boxers make slip stick attachments for ideas.
Thanks
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 17:08:04 UTC No. 172229
>>172163
>documentary about Philippine Scout Ranger training
Will check it out, thanks anon.
>>172196
You sound very closed minded in your opinion, so I was temped to not even respond to you. Word to the wise: maybe relax a little. It can't be good to spend your time in a karate thread try to shit on karate like an hysterical karen. There is no delusion here. You don't see dangerous moves in karate sparring because they are dangerous (same with any sport). Hell under modern WKF rules the fights are similar to a kid's catch game where a touch to the oponet gives you a point. There are things you cannot free spar because of technical reason (gloves) or the very nature of the move (you cannot free spar getting out of surprise standing rear choke). Also you seem confused about karate terms, kumite is when you practice with a partner. Nobody does "bunkais". There will never be a proper competitional ruleset for a martial art, that's why they became sports. Life or death situations don't have rules, sports do.
You entire second paragraph is literally how karate learning works. You are just fixated in the grappling part of bunkai for some reason. Karate is not judo. It's a striking sport. And, I repeat, there are some parts you cannot spar in a safe enviroment.
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 17:12:15 UTC No. 172230
>>172197
Let me get this straigth: you want to somehow make it appear in free sparring a situation where a guy (drunk or agressive or whatever) tries to grab the opponent's collar and is subdued by the arm and the defender punches him straight in the face?
I mean in you video you can get black to try not to get subdue or make it harder. Or to get white and black to see who can subdue the other with the movement. Then you are just doing some judo like drills. And since it is unsafe to hard spar trying to subdue and punch their faces in each other, that's as far as you can go.
In what kind of competition that has punches or elbows in it would someone go to grab the opponent's collar?
You sound delusional. It's like your saying that a hard kick with a iron tip boot in the balls should not be teached as a technique of selfdefense because you practice it in sneakers against a zero resistance opponent or a pad and there are no "kick in the balls are allowed" sparring fights.
>>172214
>Any of you anons have any ideas or have done something similar? Did Okinawan karatekas have wooden dummies back in the day?
All the sparring I have done has been with another person. If I recall correctly Funakoshi describes a hall with a lot of contraceptions, including the chinese wooden dummy, stone weights, iron balls, hanging makiwara,... for karate training used by his wealthy noble master Azato. If you trust not injure yourself I say go for it, there is nothing to lose.
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 17:32:53 UTC No. 172232
>>172229
>You don't see dangerous moves in karate sparring because they are dangerous
Arm drag is not dangerous, it is done almost in all variations of wrestling
>Also you seem confused about karate terms, kumite is when you practice with a partner. Nobody does "bunkais".
This is how terms used in my country and I did multiple styles of karate - shotokan for 2 years, goju ryu for like 3 months and kyokushin for 2 years in two different organizations (I also did some freestyle wrestling). Bunkai is practiced with partners. How else it should be practiced? If you don't practice it there is literally 0 point to do kata.
>You are just fixated in the grappling part of bunkai for some reason.
Because katas consist mostly of grappling techniques. For working on striking katas are even less useful (so less useful than zero).
>le "my technique will work even if I practice it with nonresisting/nonmoving opponent" delusion - the post
Exactly. You are practicing NONWORKING techniques (because you can never test them) like this >>172197 and even if you have potentially working techniques (like arm drags) you still don't practice them. You are literally doing aikido.
>practicing kicks to the balls
FUCKING LMAO HERE WE FINALLY GOT XDDDD Yes it is completely useless to "practice" kicking in the balls in same way it is completely useless to "practice" palm strikes to throat - you are not practicing them, you never tried them on resisting opponent that moves, you don't know if you ever will be able to hit this small targets.
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 17:33:44 UTC No. 172233
>>172230
Nah it's just the only time I can do karate with other people is during the weekends. I'm just trying to find solutions on what to do during work days.
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 17:36:45 UTC No. 172235
>>172224
You suck off your sparring partners for fun? Do you count Grindr dates as "sparring" too? How do you know if you win?
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 17:44:44 UTC No. 172236
>>172229
>It's a striking sport.
Why though? Originally it wasn't. It contained throws, joint locks, and take downs. Why not make simulated kumite closest to its original form and allow almost all techniques (aside from eye gouging and cock shots). If you're worried about safety, make them wear armor. Nippon and Shorinji kempo does it. From what I recall even Shorinji kempo use some sort of crotch armor to enable all types of attack in randori. Such ways may also improve bunkai when you're fully armored and the "attacking" partner can have no reservations doing the nastier techniques.
>There are things you cannot free spar because of technical reason (gloves)
MMA gloves exist, anon.
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 19:07:14 UTC No. 172244
>>172236
Kudou competition format is exactly what you want then Anon, very much so that you'll see someone grabbing another guy and try to punch them at the same time and they got throws and some ground game.
I much like the idea of Kudo format as well because how it brings the spirit of original Karate back to modern audience.
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 21:46:43 UTC No. 172257
>>172232
>>172232
>Arm drag is not dangerous
Arm drag while beating the hell out of someone face/head is dangerous. That's why you cannot practice it.
>This is how terms used in my country
We had diferent experiences then. For me bunkai is an interpretation of the practical applications of a part of a kata. What you describe was kiso, kiso kumite or simply kata kumite. Bunkai was just the interpretation.
>If you don't practice it there is literally 0 point to do kata.
Athletic exercises are of some worth while almost all time. Some older people can use it to stay active and some injured people as a way of rehabilitation. Or simply as a way of building commitment, discipline or willpower like throwing 1 000 shots practicing basketball, running up a mountain trail or doing 1000 burpees.
>Because katas consist mostly of grappling techniques. For working on striking katas are even less useful (so less useful than zero).
I disagree. For me Karate has at least 50% strikes (or more) and all katas can be good for something.
>You are practicing NONWORKING techniques (because you can never test them)
There are plenty of things that cannot be tested but we know that work. There are techniques from judo that are banned from both sport and randori, would you say they don't work?
>even if you have potentially working techniques (like arm drags) you still don't practice them. You are literally doing aikido.
Again the armdrag is just half the technique in your example. The complete sequence could be something like: tori tries collar grab. uke reacts with armdrag while beating the hell out of tori's face and head. Maybe uke will finish tori by pushing him to the floor and kick his head like a ball.
You cannot do hard practice at that with a partner.
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 21:48:10 UTC No. 172258
>>172232
>it is completely useless to "practice" kicking in the balls
But how do you know? The move itself is pretty useful as you say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXz
And it is not practiced on a resisting opponent not because it's pointless or ineffective but because it's dangerous and very painful. And if you incorporated to sparring or sport most kicks would try to go there for a proven quick finisher. There are many things banned or penalized from even the bloodiest fighting sports because of their dangerousness. Poking eyes is a movement that requires even more accuracy than an kick in the groin and still is done quite effectively by Jon Jones.
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 21:49:28 UTC No. 172259
>>172236
>Why though? Originally it wasn't. It contained throws, joint locks, and take downs.
It is what it is. If you or anyone want to revive the grappling aspect of it I have nothing against it. Still karate had strikes, and now it's know as mostly striking.
>Why not make simulated kumite closest to its original form
Because the original form is lost. As much as I appreciate the effort of rediscovering the grappling in karate or the bunkai in kata it is a modern interpretation. Their is simply not enough material to know the correct interpretation (or if it even existed).
If someone does karate and wants to know grappling I would just send him to a judo, bjj or wrestling school. Cross training was encouraged by the okinawan masters and by Oyama for example. Without any disrespect both my personal experience with Shorinji Kempo and reading about make it looks very shady to me. And the shorinji guys I knew were like some other karate schools guys I knew: very soft, just a hobby to larp. Nothing wrong with that for me but as you search for usefulness I think it's in your interest to stay away from Kempo. And the full armor thing is just silly to me. I used to go to practice in jeans or sportswear one day a week to drill and spar without the kimono to get confortable to fight in our ordinary clothes. I haven't found anything on the kempo armor but still kicks in the groin hurt a lot even with a cup and some (banned from judo for example) strangulations can be very dangerous even by experienced fighters.
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 21:53:10 UTC No. 172260
>>172236
Still like >>172244 says maybe Kudo would be interesting for you. Karate as I was taught is a mostly grab£ martial art but the real sparring was limited to more conventional rules as it's too dangerous to train grab£ kneeing a guys head or rabbit punching him repeatedly is not practice friendly.
Modern karate has a lot of critics, mostly deservedly, but the lack of realism or live sparring with some dangerous techniques is just a thing of the times we live in as judokas or even mma fighters also have a more resticted and safer ruleset.
Even the now "catch game" that is Shotokan kumite was quite dangerous in the old Gigo days as it allowed face shots without gloves and rules had to be put in order to safely practice it.
My view now is that I do what I do and respect others who do their own thing. Time moves foward and so does the world, as Funakoshi must have thought back in his days.
Anonymous at Mon, 16 Oct 2023 23:23:28 UTC No. 172279
>>172259
I'm not gonna accept the "Kata meaning is lost!". Cross training does help. Specially when you get exposed to arts close to the origins of karate such as some southern styles of kung fu. Their taolu and danshi and applications of it might help explain the meaning behind the katas specially the older ones. I find that karate's kihon (in my case, shotokan) seems clunky and will be prone to misuse. Since my experience with Muay Thai made the meaning and use of kihon a lot easier if not enriching both (turns out hikite is pulling someone's sleeve into your punch and not to mention the blocks and its various uses). It's more of a hobby. Like restoring a vintage car. Sourcing or making it's missing parts to make it work. Is it better to just buy some newly made car? Yeah sure, but it won't be half as cool as a fully restored vintage muscle car though.
Anonymous at Tue, 17 Oct 2023 07:47:38 UTC No. 172306
>>172258
They never practiced groin kicks but still land them. Wonder why? Because they practice regular kick. This what you want to practice. Not some leg swings in the air imagining you are kicking the groin.
Anonymous at Tue, 17 Oct 2023 08:10:51 UTC No. 172309
>>172258
Hoping you will land groin kick because you trained it to the air is same shit as hoping you will land head punches in boxing by punching the air on head level.
Anonymous at Tue, 17 Oct 2023 08:25:42 UTC No. 172312
>>172257
>Arm drag while beating the hell out of someone face/head is dangerous.
Practice them without beating in the face. Also you have kudo helmets. But even then you will find out this final punch will not land because opponent doesn't want to stay being bent over. You don't even understand what reflexes your opponent will get from training when you even try to grab his elbow to do arm drag (he will try to hide elbow behind the back or press his elbow to his body after several arm drag attempts naturally). You will never know because obviously you don't practice it with opponent resistance like you don't practice every other technique from kata. How's your way of practicing is different from aikido?
>There are plenty of things that cannot be tested but we know that work.
Like what? Groin kicks? Knowing "groin kick makes pain" isn't the same thing as knowing "you can land groin on moving person that attacks you because you kicked air on the groin level". Or arm drags? You don't know either if you can do them, see above.
>There are techniques from judo that are banned from both sport and randori, would you say they don't work?
Yes. If you can't practice something it doesn't work. Banned techniques from judo were not banned some time ago and that's how we know they are working.
>Again the armdrag is just half the technique in your example.
It's just a question of classification, not a real problem. You have two techniques - one grappling technique and one striking technique. With your classification you don't even have a chance to practice at least something useful.
Ok, what's your bunkai for heian yondan beginning?
Anonymous at Tue, 17 Oct 2023 14:34:26 UTC No. 172345
>>172260
>Karate as I was taught is a mostly grab£ martial art
Uechi-ryu?
Anonymous at Wed, 18 Oct 2023 00:03:33 UTC No. 172408
>>172405
All thanks to the pussification of the sports because of the olympic shit, Judo is good enough for a Japanese national representation as a sport in the olympic sphere.
Anonymous at Wed, 18 Oct 2023 02:03:20 UTC No. 172419
>>172408
>because of the olympic shit
WKF pussified it before the Olympics even got involved. Olympics just took it as is
Anonymous at Wed, 18 Oct 2023 06:32:30 UTC No. 172446
>>170097
Sanchin (the stance and the kata) are an absolute fucking meme, even within the context of traditional karate, and all it’s esoteric bullshit.
Anonymous at Wed, 18 Oct 2023 07:25:20 UTC No. 172452
>>172419
>WKF
Isn't that same style Machida did?
Anonymous at Wed, 18 Oct 2023 16:51:49 UTC No. 172514
>>172408
Nah, that's because of federation diplomacy and issues.
>>172419
The argument I heard is that judo already represented Japan well as a sport and other countries "traditional" sports have preference.
>>172452
That's the biggest karate federation anon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World
They deal mostly with Shotokan, Goju-ryu, Wado-ryu and Shito-ryu dojos and instructors.
Machida did Shotokan, probably in a WKF certified dojo.
Anonymous at Wed, 18 Oct 2023 17:14:12 UTC No. 172516
>>172306
So it's so dangerous that when they are hit accidentaly they have to stop the fight but, it's more difficult to hit the groin if you actually try to hit the balls instead of just accidentaly hitting them?. Also most, if not all karate, also do regular kicks.
>>172309
Hoping I will land a groin kick after training different bag work and pad work of kicks at groin level and actually aiming for the balls sounds better than self defense restrained to moves from a "pretty safe for the opponent" ruleset sport. I don't know why are you repeating the doing it to the air thing, karate has been hitting targets for a hundred years.
>>172312
>Practice them without beating in the face
That's what judo is for.
>You will never know because obviously you don't practice it with opponent resistance like you don't practice every other technique from kata. How's your way of practicing is different from aikido?
You will never know because a real fight with someone who really wants to hurt is an unvalanced confrontation where you go without knowing. Any fucker can down anyone with a small knife. The drill for these situations are done just so you get familiar with the movements that hurt the most while exposing you the least and you can practice them safely. The drill is for uke to learn and get better, not to test it's efficacy. I have fought under both kyokushin and kickboxing rules. The practice I did for those tournaments and the way I fought in them is diferent that what I would do in a real life situation.
>you can land groin on moving person that attacks you because you kicked air on the groin level
Again with the air. There are pads and bags around, you know? Also training not to hit the groin makes you hit the groin less that training to hit the groin. Same with head, chest, belly, ribs, solar plexus, liver or any other bodypart. Nobody knows it a hit is gonna land where you want but actually trying to land it makes a difference.
Anonymous at Wed, 18 Oct 2023 17:15:53 UTC No. 172517
>Or arm drags? You don't know either if you can do them
I'm practicing grapping mostly now and, again, you learn the technique and drill it. Nobody knows if it's going to work, that's what sparring is. You just try and sometimes it goes well and sometimes it doesn't. Nobody's gonna get 100% success with a technique neither in random sparring nor a real life situation. I don't know why you ask for that in a self defense, or any other, move.
>Yes. If you can't practice something it doesn't work. Banned techniques from judo were not banned some time ago and that's how we know they are working.
So a gunman that shoots at still targets must be easy to mess with if you are just moving as they never shot at moving targets. Shotokan used to fight in competition gloveless with shots to the face in the 60s or so. They banned after two competitions. There were massive numbers of serious injury. Now they don't do it, same reason for the kyokushin rules. Do full power ungloved punches to the face "not work"? Can you not practice them without actually punching a training partner in the face without gloves on at full power?
>With your classification you don't even have a chance to practice at least something useful.
But you do practice it. The other way around (hard sparring) is just two guys tugging each other (very unsafe) worried if they should punch or are gonna get punched (dangerous). Every fighting sport as some sort of rules for sparring, karate is just another one of the bunch.
>what's your bunkai for heian yondan beginning?
I doubt the heian katas ever contained any meaninfull bunkai and were not just a beginner's exercise and a tool for the expansion of karate as a japanese budo. To play the game: the slowness of the move is to put focus proper breathing. The step forward is a quick step towards uke while both rising open hands that move with the whole body at the end means a grab to uke by the collar and a throw with all tori's bodyweight for uke to lose his balance.
Anonymous at Wed, 18 Oct 2023 17:18:57 UTC No. 172518
>>172345
Yes, but I began, with another instructor, and was registered as Shotokan. My master knew both and choose Shotokan to register for practical reasons.
Anonymous at Wed, 18 Oct 2023 22:06:30 UTC No. 172546
>>172518
>register for practical reasons.
What? Why? Shame there's no Uechi-ryu dojos here where I am. But I found a Shotokan dojo (sensei also teaches judo and other stuff). Decided I should pursue Shotokan and probably return to Muay Thai from time to time.
Anonymous at Thu, 19 Oct 2023 02:41:22 UTC No. 172571
>>172514
>>172452
>>172419
The Machidas competed in JKA. JKA is still point sparring but it's less gay than WKF. They should've used it in the Olympics if they had to pick a points rule set.
Anonymous at Thu, 19 Oct 2023 02:47:40 UTC No. 172575
>>172571
That looks like the closest to the earlier post I made about old shotokan kumite. Fucking awesome to know that it still exist.
Anonymous at Thu, 19 Oct 2023 04:34:16 UTC No. 172577
>>172571
Kudo rules should be the official rules for karate, it's the least gay karate rules there are
Anonymous at Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:46:39 UTC No. 172592
>>172516
>>172517
Almost everything you said is basically "Le deadly palm strikes to the throat" and “Le disarming knife techniques I drill certainly will work” arguments combined. You are doing aikido as I said earlier.
But the most interesting is this
>I doubt the heian katas ever contained any meaninfull bunkai
I'm happy we finally got to the idea that katas are useless, thank you.
>The step forward is a quick step towards uke while both rising open hands that move with the whole body at the end means a grab to uke by the collar and a throw with all tori's bodyweight for uke to lose his balance.
I didn't understand anything, if you can pls post video.
Also
>I'm practicing grapping mostly now and, again, you learn the technique and drill it.
No, technique is not sequence of body movements, it is the best way to apply strength to smth. If you don't apply strength to smth you don't drill technique, you do sequence of body movements.
>that's what sparring is. You just try and sometimes it goes well and sometimes it doesn't
And how many times you tried that beginning technique from heyan yondan? Was on resisting opponent that tries to break grips? Or was it just what aikidokas do?
Anonymous at Thu, 19 Oct 2023 21:09:31 UTC No. 172663
>>166699
Kind of is a grow into it art. Youngers really should box, wrestle, kick box etc but as one gets older it's nice to move into something abit deeper. When i one day find it too hard i will prob do tai chi or aikido. Recently i've really started getting into kata, it's a waste of time... until you find there's a deeper aspect contained in karate. Karate is this middle art that you can, or should be able to apply the practical fighting learnt younger and set you up to be healthy and flexible when your older imo
Anonymous at Thu, 19 Oct 2023 21:21:42 UTC No. 172667
>>167229
My class is very kick boxing based and one black belt is a nutter who trains mma stuff 5/6 days a week so we get the odd bit of that come in. But there's the other stuff that makes it different. Kata, trying old skool chops and applying the weird stuff to pads every now and then to see how it works, quite alot of marching. I think if one just wants to learn to fight then there's better things but if you find a class you get on with enjoy it for what it is
Anonymous at Sat, 21 Oct 2023 13:59:53 UTC No. 172875
Did you think Valeri won? https://twitter.com/xKaratepath/sta
Anonymous at Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:19:10 UTC No. 172886
>>172546
Practical reasons: kids will be the main source of income in almost every karate practice class / dojo. The parents want legit instructors and nice things. So by registering as Shotokan my instructor got federation support: official unified grading, tournaments to go to, a safe sport competition for kids, nice federation official cards for the kids, health insurance for everyone, a structured path for himself to "improve" (he got some dan degrees in Shotokan and reached godan) and students interested to "climb up" (referee programs, instructor programs, ...)... by registering as Uechi there would have been more difficulty for him to maintain his dojo in the bussiness sense and he would have been alone in that.
I was very lucky to train under him and I learned a lot from him.
Many times the teacher matters more than the subject. The fact that your sensei cross trains is a very good sign. I wish you luck in your pursuits anon.
Anonymous at Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:20:12 UTC No. 172887
>>172592
>"Le deadly palm strikes to the throat"
Never mentioned palm strikes or the throat.
>“Le disarming knife techniques I drill certainly will work”
Again, almost the oppoposite of what I said. Quoting myself: "You will never know because a real fight with someone who really wants to hurt is an unvalanced confrontation where you go without knowing."
>I'm happy we finally got to the idea that katas are useless, thank you.
Never said that. I believe they are usefull just the most usefull directly for fighting. Discipline, balance, coordination, strength, speed, focus, physical health... you can use kata for many things.
Anonymous at Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:21:22 UTC No. 172888
>I didn't understand anything, if you can pls post video.
Nah. I did some digging into the matter and I'll show you what I found: two diferent bukanki for the heian godan opening:
https://imgur.com/a/KCNGXwM
I still believe that maybe the heian contained no meaninfull bukai. With this in mind the left bunkai is by a Goju-ryu master and the right one is done by a Shotokan master. Now it's obvious that their bunkai is biased by their styles. Goju comes from Naha-te which contains more grappling and close range combat and Shotokan which comes from Shuri-te which was a more pure striking art. With that said, and coming from Uechi and Shotokan myself, both interpretation seem ridiculous to me (grabbing a punch!). The "effective" bunkai would be a simple movement like this (from a old time boxing manual) for example:
https://imgur.com/a/a6OwMJY
Still you can some resemblance. It's simple and effective, nothing overly complex or groundbreaking. Now you can drill that and even add it to spar, but always with protections that are lacking in a real fight.
>If you don't apply strength to smth you don't drill technique
Strength is strength, technique is technique. The body doesn't know or care if you apply to a living being or a thing. You see boxers doing bag or shadowboxing and wrestlers practicing supplex with dummies. Lots of important things are not train this way but other useful qualities are, to say that just full on sparring is usefull is absurd.
>And how many times you tried that beginning technique from heyan yondan?
I have competed in kickboxing. I have done the right block / left hit a some times in my life against guys fighting me. Never tried against grappling tho.
Anonymous at Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:32:26 UTC No. 172889
>>172875
No, Iriki controled the fight more. The crowd was already chanting Valery's name before the fight was finished.
You can see the difference where Dimitrov won agains Iriki 3 years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEK
Anonymous at Mon, 23 Oct 2023 02:51:14 UTC No. 173064
>>166676
That beard looks like it would be annoying anytime you sit down to shit
Anonymous at Tue, 24 Oct 2023 09:38:31 UTC No. 173178
>>172887
>Never mentioned palm strikes or the throat.
I know, but you really should, because they are in the same category as knife disarming techniques, any techniques from kata and aikido techniques. And also karate has palm strikes
>Discipline
LMAO, what the point of training discipline? You have discipline to train, not vice versa. It's stupid to train to have discipline to train. You can just train.
>balance, coordination, strength, speed
What the point to train balance, coordination, strength, speed with techniques you will never use? Skiing also trains all of that, but boxers don’t use skiing to train all that qualities
>>172888
>https://imgur.com/a/KCNGXwM
God this is so fucking ridiculous. This is literally the level of le deadly palm strikes to the throat and le disarming knife techniques. The first column bunkai will never work. You literally allowed to do such things in grappling and it even should be easier because you don't need to react to block first punch, for example when opponent puts hand to your neck you potentially can do this shit with him. And it will not work EVEN IF kata was teaching you exactly this technique. But here is another problem - bunkai is fantasy and kata doesn't really teach bunkai from first column. The hand applies strength in wrong direction and you don't work the finish from kata. How do you even know that opponents body will react to pressure on the elbow exactly like on bottom left picture if you never tried it on resisting opponent? Second column is same level cringe.
>wrestlers practicing supplex with dummies
They are practicing exactly same technique they use in competitions. Show me any fight or competition where one of these https://imgur.com/a/KCNGXwM bunkais worked.
Anonymous at Tue, 24 Oct 2023 09:40:37 UTC No. 173179
>>172517
>Nobody's gonna get 100% success with a technique neither in random sparring
That's like saying "nobody knows if he is gonna win competition or not". No shit Sherlock, but wrestler knows suplex will work if he create certain conditions to perform it, because he tried on wrestler dummy, on relaxed opponent, on opponent with 50% of resistance, on opponent with full resistance etc... He knows entrances to suplex and how opponent would react suplexing.
With such cringe aikido like shit https://imgur.com/a/KCNGXwM
you know nothing of these
Anonymous at Tue, 24 Oct 2023 16:26:27 UTC No. 173226
>>173215
It's all just a little silly the way they get one little love tap and they stiff up and shake then fold over like they can feel the chi coursing through their body and are unable to move
They've completely hypnotized themselves
Agh this...is the power of karateeee!!!! Aaahhhhhh!
Bro he jabbed you in the nose calm the fuck down
Anonymous at Tue, 24 Oct 2023 16:48:57 UTC No. 173229
>>173226
This all stems in the "one hit, one kill" or "decisive stroke" ideology in Japanese martial arts. Yeah, inflicting a critical strike or movement is ideal, but don't put all your faith in it. Keep chipping away and play a smart game of attrition.
I sparred against a Shotokan stylist who joined our boxing gym and it took him a long while to get over gyaku seiken chudan habits. Don't just expect me to just stand there and take your hit without defending or expecting a counterattack.
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Oct 2023 06:07:43 UTC No. 173312
>>173215
>stick their chin out
Probably a holdover from bareknuckle days like old school bareknuckle boxing.
>why are their hands held so damned low
The low angle makes it harder to read when the punch is coming, which matters a lot in a point sparring context where hitting first non-telegraphically is important. It's one of the reasons why you see some MMA guys adopting a hands down stance.
>>173300
This is a karate thread. We know, we just don't care.
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Oct 2023 07:01:10 UTC No. 173315
Why is kudo so unpopular ffs
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Oct 2023 08:26:27 UTC No. 173325
>>173312
Is there recording of these old time boxers?
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Oct 2023 08:31:12 UTC No. 173326
>>173315
Mixed arts can exist only in form of professional sport, with promotions, money etc
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Oct 2023 16:00:07 UTC No. 173357
>>173315
unironically because they tried to be snowflakes and stopped calling themselves karate
people search karate, it has name recognition. In order for kudo to be found you would need to be interested in researching weird niche martial arts
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Oct 2023 16:50:25 UTC No. 173359
>>173357
>unironically because they tried to be snowflakes and stopped calling themselves karate
Koshiki karate call themselves karate and they are even less known
Anonymous at Sat, 28 Oct 2023 22:21:51 UTC No. 173742
>>173731
Story? Bowing down to masters/flags is in TMA show of respect etiquette.
Anonymous at Sat, 28 Oct 2023 22:23:26 UTC No. 173743
>>173357
well its not Karate its Karate + Judo + BJJ type of shit as well as they are not Shooto fighting, Kudo is better as a competition ruleset for unarmed Bushido fighting though, make it more popular, sports karate sucks these days so if there's an alternative people can flock to it.
Anonymous at Sat, 28 Oct 2023 22:45:57 UTC No. 173750
>>173742
Bowing to the fraudster helio gracie
Anonymous at Sat, 28 Oct 2023 22:47:22 UTC No. 173751
>>173750
heh you would never catch me doing that.
Anonymous at Sat, 28 Oct 2023 22:53:07 UTC No. 173752
>>173743
Karate isn't a /thing/ if you wear a gi and hit each other it's karate
Trying to distance yourself from that is cringe
Anonymous at Sun, 29 Oct 2023 15:00:36 UTC No. 173804
>>173752
wrong, you can wear whatever as long as you are doing proper kata or basic technique drilling, if your karate training doesn't involve kata its not karate.
official settings wearing a gi is must.
Anonymous at Sun, 29 Oct 2023 23:38:45 UTC No. 173852
Anonymous at Mon, 30 Oct 2023 10:16:16 UTC No. 173905
>>173852
>Disagree
I'm another anon, but yeah, "karate" equals "kata", even if they are reinvented like in ashihara or enshin. Meanwhile kudo is not karate because it doesn't have kata
Anonymous at Mon, 30 Oct 2023 18:04:07 UTC No. 173937
>>167812
as a white belt in kyo who almost caught a hook kick to the side of the head, heel brought to a halt mere inches away (prob to spare me a concussion), while sparring with a high-ranking regional kyo competitor during a kickboxing class...
i couldn't agree more. i was so excited when i saw that he and the other instructor started teaching kyokushin classes for adults. not only is it a rare art availability wise, it's also quite unique in its curriculum - karate/tkd/savate style snap kicks, thai style shin kicks, the precision it develops in its practitioners, the fact it rejects gloves and punches to the face in favor of bareknuckle punches to the body and the emphasis on proper punching form that creates, the creativity with strikes that its admittedly very limiting ruleset inspires... it's like a barebones version of kickboxing.
so i won't tolerate any kyokushin slander. not today.
Anonymous at Mon, 30 Oct 2023 18:14:03 UTC No. 173940
>>167649
really? 'cause i live in europe, and we spar at the gym i go to.
Anonymous at Tue, 31 Oct 2023 20:41:56 UTC No. 174039
>>167649
What's a drifter?
Anonymous at Thu, 9 Nov 2023 15:13:45 UTC No. 175255
Is there a benefit in cross training into Hung Gar before going back to karate?
>inb4 train muh modern shit like blowjob-jutsu
Already did modern combat sports. I wanna have fun.
Anonymous at Fri, 10 Nov 2023 20:29:11 UTC No. 175421
IKO world open soon, KWF World Championships (I don't know if that's weighted or not...doesn't seem like it?) and then tomorrow I myself am fighting in the British Karate Guild British Open, any other competitors or kyoku autists in the thread?
>>172889
I like both of them quite a lot, but Dimitrov has a biiiiiiig fan club, I think as far as fights go, that was a better fight than this year, and there were better fights throughout the tournament than the final, but sometimes finals are like that. Shame Mazur wasn't there, he looked really good in the Europeans.
Anonymous at Fri, 10 Nov 2023 20:34:00 UTC No. 175422
>>173315
expensive and much much harder than most other forms of karate, no time based belt guarantees etc, you either perform to the level required or you don't grade, which makes a lot of moderns get fed up because they don't feel rewarded after two or three months
Anonymous at Fri, 10 Nov 2023 20:35:15 UTC No. 175423
>>175255
Hung Gar its more erratic meanwhile Karate its always in straight lines?
Maybe they are incompatible.
Anonymous at Sun, 12 Nov 2023 18:25:58 UTC No. 175661
>>175421
hey, i'm new to kyoku and attending the kwf world championships. what are the rules so i can better understand the matches? and which fighters should i watch in particular?
Anonymous at Sun, 12 Nov 2023 20:34:56 UTC No. 175676
>>175661
I don't know anything about KWF desu, rules are probably the same as knockdown karate anywhere, with some variations on pushing and grabbing. I'd say look out for any fighters from England, I've trained with two guys who are going there to fight, one is either lightweight or middleweight, and the other is heavy weight. Possibily fighting under the name Rammal (They're Lebanese), the Dutch fighters are also very good fun to watch, I've trained with some Dutch karateka who are always very fun and unique in both training and fighting
Anonymous at Sun, 12 Nov 2023 21:09:21 UTC No. 175681
>>175676
thanks anon! i'll look up the rules of knockdown karate
Anonymous at Sun, 19 Nov 2023 19:40:24 UTC No. 176393
>>176376
Did the French guy get kicked in the dick?
Anonymous at Sun, 19 Nov 2023 21:36:52 UTC No. 176401
Sometimes I like to wear my karate costume around the house just cus it feels good
Anonymous at Sun, 19 Nov 2023 22:00:46 UTC No. 176405
>>176393
No, he's just pretending he did that was a thigh kick. They learned how to play victim from soccer.
Anonymous at Mon, 20 Nov 2023 01:14:08 UTC No. 176418
>>176401
Was the gi originally the normal home clothes of people from back in the day?
Anonymous at Mon, 20 Nov 2023 02:23:27 UTC No. 176424
>>176418
Nope
Judo came up with the idea because people kept getting their every day clothes fucked up from practicing judo, so they started wearing firefighters clothing (the thick cotton garment would be saturated with water to protect them from the heat) because they were already easily available and rugged enough to handle practice
No need make them decorative the way the firefighters did for judo purposes, just leave them undyed to keep the cost down
Then when karate arrived in Japan they just copied what judo was doing
Before then the Okinawans just worked out in shorts and shirtless or short sleeved shirts the way we do now
Anonymous at Thu, 7 Dec 2023 11:23:26 UTC No. 178502
If Naha-te derived mostly from White Crane Kung Fu, where did Shuri-te styles derived from? Is there any evidence that Karate was also Muay Boran/Bokator/Any other mainland SEA martial arts?
Anonymous at Sat, 16 Dec 2023 20:51:56 UTC No. 179774
>>167124
The story's pretty bad but the fights can be absolutely fire
Anonymous at Sun, 17 Dec 2023 23:43:32 UTC No. 179908
>>176424
The dogi is based upon various different traditional japanese outfits, with the idea being that you can translate the various grips and holds etc to your regular day wear..... Iirc karate was like kung fu in okinawan, you trained in your regular daily clothes, because it was for self defence in your regular clothes
>>176401
Muji does some really comfy traditional style japanese lounge wear
>>176377
What happened to Tusseau..... he looked busted in this tournament.... But it's also the best he's ever done in Japan.
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Dec 2023 15:19:28 UTC No. 180081
>>172405
Thank god
Fuck WKF
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Dec 2023 21:05:38 UTC No. 180128
>>179908
Damn, those look real comfy. I gotta get one for myself.
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Dec 2023 21:07:35 UTC No. 180129
>>179774
You know any good karate films? I watched Kuro-Obi. Well, I didn't really liked the story but the karate depicted there was fire. I was thinking lately watching the Hong Kong live action of Shamo. Can't go wrong with more options tho.
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Dec 2023 21:13:28 UTC No. 180132
>>179908
>you trained in your regular daily clothes, because it was for self defence in your regular clothes
Is it advisable to train wearing a polo shirt, leather shoes and jeans? If you're gonna train for self defense might as well train from time to time in normal everyday clothes you'd wear when going to work or something.
>Imagine the toe kicks from Uechi-ryu while wearing sturdy leather shoes
Anonymous at Tue, 19 Dec 2023 22:25:33 UTC No. 180139
Karate really did used to be way more anime
Theyre absolutely atrocious fighters, but they're going for it so that's fun
https://youtu.be/IuJBkfmt-48?si=Vzl
Anonymous at Wed, 20 Dec 2023 22:07:05 UTC No. 180322
>>180132
Yes, imagine a mawashi geri to the thigh or with steel toed boots on, or even the old school toe kicks to the thigh with any kind of shoes on. A lot of the classic toe kicks make far more sense with shoes on.
Anonymous at Wed, 20 Dec 2023 22:11:54 UTC No. 180323
I'm nervous because so help me if people start bullying this guy in the comments
https://youtu.be/SwlV1DqlUHk?si=j-Y
He's obviously an autistic adult just trying to show something he likes and he's not hurting anyone
I will personally fight anyone that's mean to him
Anonymous at Wed, 20 Dec 2023 22:22:18 UTC No. 180325
>>180323
really people should just leave these people alone... you don't gain anything from being mean to strangers on the internet, especially ones like this.
Anonymous at Thu, 21 Dec 2023 01:37:21 UTC No. 180348
>>180139
That dude with the ripped sleeves looks like someone out of a video game or 80s action movie. Can't believe they let people be that cool in the ring.
Anonymous at Thu, 21 Dec 2023 08:58:17 UTC No. 180398
>>180139
>Theyre absolutely atrocious fighter
By what standard? There are future k1 champions in that video lol.
Anonymous at Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:07:14 UTC No. 180442
>>180129
Live action Garouden, Fighter in the wind and The Street Fighter.
Anonymous at Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:27:43 UTC No. 180443
Why kyokushin have a lot more cultural impact than others styles?
Anonymous at Thu, 21 Dec 2023 20:23:05 UTC No. 180447
>>180443
It's a situation of failing upwards
Kyokushin sells itself as a really hard-core bare knuckle style for fighters which attracts a certain kind of person
But then those people realize it's just as silly and impractical as every other sport karate style so they move on to real combat sports like kickboxing or MMA
The result being you see these fighters with their background in kyokushin
But ironically it's the fact that kyokushin is gay and lame that these guys are participating in a different sport
To put it another way, there's a reason they have a "background in" kyokushin as opposed to "currently participate in" kyokushin
Anonymous at Thu, 21 Dec 2023 23:27:46 UTC No. 180473
>>180442
Thanks, Anon
Anonymous at Fri, 22 Dec 2023 03:20:36 UTC No. 180524
>>180443
>>180447
It's more because Oyama cultivated a cult of personality and many celebrities did it at that time.
Anonymous at Sun, 24 Dec 2023 23:12:45 UTC No. 180832
>>180139
>atrocious fighters
>posts some really solid technical fights
what did he mean by this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NME
Anyway, Gary O'Neill was one of the most anime fighters, really cool looong leg techniques in this fight, from both fighters. The 90s was probably the best era for Kyokushinka who didn't just tough it out but knew how to land the more outlandish spinning and flying kicks
>>180442
where to find live action garouden?
>>180443
It was... and probably still is the biggest and most popular form of Karate (even in the current fractured form), iirc in the 90s before all the major splits we had like almost a 1 million registered members and multiple dojos in every country. Before the UFC people went to kyokushin tournaments if they wanted to see "real fighting" etc, and there was a good chance if you did karate as a child in the 80s or 90s (in Western Europe) you did a form of Kyokushin. But the cultural impact of Kyokushin has been from people who "graduated" from it, rather than people who have stayed within it, althought you used to get some great footage on Eurospot of classic kyokushin tournaments, it was a very insular environment. But I think for many in a world where kickboxing didn't exist beyond Muay Thai, and MMA/UFC wasn't that popular, if you wanted "real fighting" you did kyokushin.
Anonymous at Sun, 24 Dec 2023 23:19:42 UTC No. 180834
>>180832
I just can't take it seriously
Anonymous at Sun, 24 Dec 2023 23:58:43 UTC No. 180839
>>180834
why are you in this general then?
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Dec 2023 13:20:42 UTC No. 180902
>>180832
>It was... and probably still is the biggest and most popular form of Karate (even in the current fractured form), iirc in the 90s before all the major splits we had like almost a 1 million registered members and multiple dojos in every country.
Wrong.
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Dec 2023 14:25:58 UTC No. 180905
>>180839
I continue to have hope I'll see something that makes me think it's cool again, but alas
Anonymous at Mon, 25 Dec 2023 23:48:39 UTC No. 180931
>>180902
>shotacon
>more popular than kyokushin
Only ever in North America, even in Japan Kyokushin was the most dominant form of Karate until Oyama's death. It was only after Oyama died and the IKO fractured did Shotokan and the WKF become bigger.
Anonymous at Tue, 26 Dec 2023 04:48:24 UTC No. 180953
>>180931
Kempos definitely the most popular karate in the USA which is the main reason everyone thinks karate sucks and is gay
Anonymous at Tue, 26 Dec 2023 12:07:18 UTC No. 180967
>>180931
You should go get some oinment for the butthurt. Shotokan is/was the most influencial style in karate history and in the world. Kyokushin isn't the biggest style in any country. The JKA alone mogged kyokushin in Japan in members, money and influence easily. Also, without Funakoshi's Shotokan there would be no Oyama's Kyokushin.
Is amazing that there is so much negation about the fact that the little okinawan won and his style got all the cultural victory.
Anonymous at Tue, 26 Dec 2023 15:59:48 UTC No. 180974
>>180967
Oyama was 7th Dan in goju, that's where the roots of kyokushin are
The rough and tumble style based on physical training and body conditioning
Shotokan kicked off what would become Japanese style karate, aka the bad one everyone laughs at because they punch the air in front of a mirror and never spar
Anonymous at Tue, 26 Dec 2023 18:20:13 UTC No. 180985
>>180973
>>180974
Friendly reminder for kyokushin Chuds that Oyama was approached by the olympic committee before tkd was and if things had gone as planned would have literally turned it into what WTF TKD is today.
🗑️ Anonymous at Tue, 26 Dec 2023 19:07:42 UTC No. 180988
>>180974
>Sometime during this era of Oyama’s karate instruction the Shotokan students in Tokyo began to hear about the tough fighters practicing a different style in Osaka, called Goju-ryu. According to a widespread story, also told by Oyama, Gichin Funakoshi’s son Gigō picked 10 of his best students and traveled to Osaka to engage in an inter-school match. All of Funakoshi’s students lost to the Osaka students. At some point during this competition, apparently in the last match, Gigo Funakoshi fought someone named Nei-chu So.
Apparently, the powerful So simply picked up the smaller Funakoshi and threw him against a wall, injuring not only his body but his dignity. It is said that after returning to Tokyo, the Shotokan schools intensified their study of kumite and stepped up its intensity, resulting in their later fearsome reputation in tournament competition.
🗑️ Anonymous at Tue, 26 Dec 2023 19:14:18 UTC No. 180989
>>180974
>Sometime during this era of Oyama’s karate instruction the Shotokan students in Tokyo began to hear about the tough fighters practicing a different style in Osaka, called Goju-ryu. According to a widespread story, also told by Oyama, Gichin Funakoshi’s son Gigō picked 10 of his best students and traveled to Osaka to engage in an inter-school match. All of Funakoshi’s students lost to the Osaka students. At some point during this competition, apparently in the last match, Gigo Funakoshi fought someone named Nei-chu So.
Apparently, the powerful So simply picked up the smaller Funakoshi and threw him against a wall, injuring not only his body but his dignity.
>It is said that after returning to Tokyo, the Shotokan schools intensified their study of kumite and stepped up its intensity, resulting in their later fearsome reputation in tournament competition.
Anonymous at Tue, 26 Dec 2023 19:16:45 UTC No. 180990
>>180974
>Sometime during this era of Oyama’s karate instruction the Shotokan students in Tokyo began to hear about the tough fighters practicing a different style in Osaka, called Goju-ryu. According to a widespread story, also told by Oyama, Gichin Funakoshi’s son Gigō picked 10 of his best students and traveled to Osaka to engage in an inter-school match. All of Funakoshi’s students lost to the Osaka students. At some point during this competition apparently in the last match, Gigo Funakoshi fought someone named Nei-chu So.
>Apparently, the powerful So simply picked up the smaller Funakoshi and threw him against a wall, injuring not only his body but his dignity.
>It is said that after returning to Tokyo, the Shotokan schools intensified their study of kumite and stepped up its intensity, resulting in their later fearsome reputation in tournament competition.
Anonymous at Tue, 26 Dec 2023 19:43:55 UTC No. 180993
>>180990
It's funny because he also lost to choki in equally embarrassing fashion
Is there any record of him fighting and not getting tossed on his ass in front of his students?
Somehow this guy becomes the face of karate
Anonymous at Tue, 26 Dec 2023 22:13:13 UTC No. 181007
>>180973
You're embarrasing yourself. You made a mistake and I corrected it. End of story. There is no need to seethe like this.
>>180974
>In 1946, Oyama enrolled in Waseda University School of Education to study sports science.
>Wanting the best in instruction, he contacted the Shotokan dojo (Karate school) operated by Gigō Funakoshi, the third son of karate master and Shotokan founder Gichin Funakoshi.[10] He became a student, and began his lifelong career in karate. To stay focused he remained isolated and trained in solitude.[9]
>Oyama later attended Takushoku University in Tokyo and was accepted as a student at the dojo of Gichin Funakoshi where he trained for two years.
Why is there so much fear or embarrasment to admit that Oyama bowed before Funakoshi and called him sensei?
Anonymous at Tue, 26 Dec 2023 22:23:32 UTC No. 181008
>>181007
its no dispute that he did such a thing
just like people who don't know any better will seek out the gracies to learn jiujitsu because of the name recognition and perceived ability they have
and then when you cut deeper you realize they suck and will find better instruction elsewhere.
that doesn't stop normies from getting indoctrinated into the cult, but no good fighters get produced there
Anonymous at Tue, 26 Dec 2023 22:27:52 UTC No. 181010
>>180993
You're confusing Gigo(son) with Gichin(father).
Supposedly Gichin lost to Choki and Gigo to that goju-ryu korean (¿weird?).
Gichin Funakoshi became the face of karate and build the biggest legacy because he understood that true power wasn't in his fist but in his mind. So while Choki (or anyone else) was a better fighter in the ring or the streets, Funakoshi simply picked real life as the battlefield and wiped everyone over with good manners, savy political maneuvering and clever business strategies.
Anonymous at Tue, 26 Dec 2023 22:44:52 UTC No. 181012
>>181008
Without Funakoshi Oyama may have gone into judo for all we know. Funakoshi was Oyama first contact into karate and his base. He learn tzuki waza from Gigo and it stayed with him his whole life. That's all I was saying.
Shotokan produces terrible fighters nowadays (and for some time now) as their sparring rules and philosophy are ridiculous, but that's another separate matter.
Kyokushin comes from a guy who studied Shotokan, Goju'ryu and Kudokan. At it's core, kyokushin contains elements, shared or not, from these styles.
Anonymous at Wed, 27 Dec 2023 07:28:27 UTC No. 181041
>>180990
>After this event Oyama said of Gigō. . . “Funakoshi’s son became a real karate fighter. Very strong. I like. He use to tell me ‘karate is kumite’”
So Gigo got humbled and then went onto to become an actually good fighter. This is supposed to be bad?
It's like how people act like Gracie vs Kimura was a tiny sickly man vs a giant, but this time the smaller man was legitimately sickly and there's no cope about it akshually being a Pyrrhic victory.
Anonymous at Fri, 29 Dec 2023 07:00:19 UTC No. 181200
is jesse kind of a little scummy? this is a pretty scumbag move
it says made in pakistan but he's banking on people not being able to read that and assuming it was made in okinawa
I've seen the same thing on rice bags where it says its california rice but written in japanese so people think it's an import
that alone makes me think I would never want to do business with the guy
Anonymous at Fri, 29 Dec 2023 18:16:22 UTC No. 181247
>>180993
To be fair Funakoshi showed karate like a physical activity for everyone instead of a hardcore killing art, fighting never was a priority for him.
Anonymous at Sat, 30 Dec 2023 21:15:13 UTC No. 181373
>>181200
>is jesse kind of a little scummy?
LMAO, "kind". He is full of shit.
Anonymous at Sat, 30 Dec 2023 21:17:29 UTC No. 181375
>>181247
God, I remember I was this cringe 16 year old kid that wrote to karate teachers on email asking "Do you teach sport karate or real karate - the art of damaging and killing people?"
Anonymous at Sat, 30 Dec 2023 21:25:19 UTC No. 181377
>>181200
Interesting. A lot of bjj gis are made in Pakistan. Is Pakistan just the gi manufacturing capital of the world?
Anonymous at Sat, 30 Dec 2023 21:29:17 UTC No. 181378
>>166699
Karate can beat everyone except JuJutsu, but even then it would be close.
Anonymous at Sat, 30 Dec 2023 23:27:44 UTC No. 181390
>>181377
Yea there's basically 2 factories in Pakistan that do all the textile work for martial arts gear because they do both the manufacturing side and also grow their own cotton since they still have slaves there.
it's the most inexpensive place to do it
The scummy part with what Jesse is doing is the tags say in plain English, developed designed and refined in Okinawa
Made in パキスタン
The only reason is to conceal where it was made
Anonymous at Sun, 31 Dec 2023 15:15:26 UTC No. 181442
I should celebrate the new year with a training session at home.
Anonymous at Sun, 31 Dec 2023 22:31:03 UTC No. 181477
>>181390
>Developed, Designed, and Refined in Okinawa
>Island niggas outsource the production to pajeets
Doesn't sound scummy to me tho. Are those gi any good? Fucking hell, if my dojo would allow it, I'd wear basket ball shorts and short sleeve gi jacket instead.
Anonymous at Sun, 31 Dec 2023 22:57:48 UTC No. 181479
>>181477
it's not the island niggas, it's a swedish guy that went on vacation to okinawa, probably doodled a picture of a gi on the back of a cocktail napkin DeSIgNeD In OkInAwA
there's no gi on the market worth $300, fuck they sell belts on there for $260
I think this brand is an IQ test
Anonymous at Sun, 31 Dec 2023 23:15:08 UTC No. 181481
>>181479
>$300
What the fuck? My gi cost like $10 from a local tailor.
Anonymous at Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:16:46 UTC No. 181740
>>181377
Pretty much yeah
>>180985
No we would have the chud olympics and all martial arts would follow the hard rules of knockdown karate and not foot fencing.