🧵 Untitled Thread
Anonymous at Sun, 22 Dec 2024 22:39:32 UTC No. 218095
>pulled mixed martial arts out of oblivion after 2000 years
>made the world know grappling is a valid way to fight
>now disrespected by martial arts fans
Anonymous at Sun, 22 Dec 2024 23:15:39 UTC No. 218100
Style vs style matches were happening everywhere all the time, they weren't doing anything new at all
It was rigged from the start, wrestling and judo were already widespread past times the world over and they deliberately didn't invite anyone from those disciplines to their tournament because they wanted to give themselves the best match up possible to win
The family is mostly made up of con men, adulterers, and criminals
Helio Carlos and George all went to prison for jumping a wrestler on the street and beating him with a pipe because he beat Carlos in a fair competition
They ducked fights and rigged them at every possible turn
Anonymous at Sun, 22 Dec 2024 23:20:59 UTC No. 218101
>>218100
Pretty much this
The martial art is legit but its founding guys were pretty scummy
Anonymous at Mon, 23 Dec 2024 00:37:16 UTC No. 218105
>>218095
>BJJ fighters are some of the most obnoxious and disrespectful people are the face of the planet
Anonymous at Mon, 23 Dec 2024 00:37:24 UTC No. 218106
>>218095
Respect constantly fades away in the face of time and irrelevancy. Sure, these guys WERE important, but where are they now? If you ask an random martial arts fan to name the top ten active fighters, would anyone on that list be named Gracie? Would any of them be using Gracie-style jiu-jitsu?
Anonymous at Mon, 23 Dec 2024 00:38:53 UTC No. 218107
>>218105
>are
on
im tired
goodnight
Anonymous at Mon, 23 Dec 2024 00:59:44 UTC No. 218110
>>218106
Boxer and ex-scholastic wrestler here. I dislike the cult environment that BJJ schools exhibit, the blatant lies and misinformation they spread about how BJJ developed and how they slag on judo, and how they lack a proper organization to discipline thug instructors and students (though to be fair, BJJ encourages this kind of behavior because of their macho attitudes and dojo storming/vale tudo past).
That being said, BJJ plays an indelible part of MMA. While Japan already had Shooto in 1986 and they have a strong tradition of sub-grappling because of their own judo newaza (which they sadly neglected) as well as catch wrestling and sombo, it was the Brazilians who popularized groundfighting to the masses in the West.
You have to remember that casuals thought martial arts were all about strikes. Grappling on the ground to secure a choke or joint-lock was rarely seen in Hollywood barring stuff like The Game of Death or Blood in the Sun. Judo Gene Lebell was telling people for decades that grappling was an essential part of fighting. Catch wrestling used to be taught in the US military. But kung fu, karate, and ninjutsu were what captured the attention.
Anonymous at Mon, 23 Dec 2024 01:15:18 UTC No. 218113
>>218110
the people that are commonly associated with jiu jitsu dont even train jiu jitsu
they train judo
Anonymous at Mon, 23 Dec 2024 01:20:57 UTC No. 218115
>>218113
It's undeniable that BJJ's roots were from Judo as well as traces of Catch Wrestling via Maeda's experiences competing in it. Not to mention more infusions via Luta Livre which is Brazilian catch wrestling with later judo influence.
Anonymous at Mon, 23 Dec 2024 02:45:12 UTC No. 218121
>>218115
important note: the gracies never trianed under maeda, helio was only 5 years and carlos 14 when maeda was in brazil
the gracies learned from donato pires, the maeda thing was a lie they used to bolster their own reputation because he was well known in brazil
they were the original lying about their lineage fags, and then they self promoted to black belt. Carlos made it to blue belt officially and he's the one that taught helio later on as an adult
"I had to modify judo because it didn't work if you're smaller than your opponent"
maybe because you learned it from a blue belt and weren't doing it right you old dead faggot
since as we know the 90 pound 5'2" kano was well known for his power and imposing physical stature which is clearly a requirement to make judo functional
the gracies are disrespected because their house of cards fell, they became famous so people started to scrutinize their claims
Anonymous at Mon, 23 Dec 2024 02:58:25 UTC No. 218122
>>218121
Yeah I did my research and also reqd Choque.
The original brothers were full of shit but the true innovators amongst the Gracies were the late Carlson Sr. and Rolls Sr.
Anonymous at Mon, 23 Dec 2024 03:05:50 UTC No. 218123
>>218122
Also it wasn't just the Gracie. There were other guys who contributed to BJJ; Japanese immigrants like Takeo Yano and Kazuo Yoshida and Brazilians like Luis Franca. Maeda had students who carried on his work.
Anonymous at Tue, 24 Dec 2024 20:28:04 UTC No. 218260
>>218123
>>218122
Choque confirms a lot of research I did online in the 2000's and early 2010's that disprove the Gracie mythos. It's amazing how people ignore how Brazil has the largest overseas Japanese population (2 million compared to the 2nd largest 1.5 million in the US) and just think the Gracies suddenly came up with the idea of leverage and groundfighting because we all know the Japanese were 6'7 250 supermen that relied too much on strength. Or how there hasn't been a steady transmission of judo techniques because of Gracie and other BJJ pioneers being exposed to more old school judo training as well as picking up Catch-as-Catch-Can Wrestling, Luta Livre (George Gracie trained alongside them in defiance of his brothers), Sombo (Rolls Sr. and Rickson did this style), and Freestyle wrestling (again Rolls Sr.)
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Dec 2024 01:25:54 UTC No. 218284
UFC 310 recently showed how out of date the Gracie family is with regards to mixed martial arts.
Kron Gracie was fighting Bryce Mitchell. Kron kept jumping guard and trying for submissions. He just wound up being controlled on the ground largely. In the 3rd round, Kron once again jumped guard and in response, Bryce just slammed him on the ground and pounded elbows into his face until Kron was out cold.
Most other MMA fighters would've hesitated to jump guard after being controlled for two straight rounds. Kron didn't and he wound up getting knocked out cold and losing.
Their lack of adapting has cost them some of their respect.
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Dec 2024 01:51:41 UTC No. 218288
>>218095
History of
>Being bullies
>cherrypicking rulesets
>"Not tapping " so not officially losing
>Being butthurt when people play the rules
>Being sore losers
Yeah they've got a lot to not be proud of
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Dec 2024 02:43:30 UTC No. 218295
>>218284
I think it was earlier than that. Remember Royce vs Matt Hughes? Royce got completely steamrolled. The hilarious thing was Rorion's website highlighting that it was Matt using Gracie Jiu-Jitsu this and that to defeat Royce so it still counted as a moral victory of the superiority of BJJ.
>>218288
Yeah BJJ really creates shitheads more so than any other martial arts. I respect BJJ for popularized submission grappling but everything you listed is what's wrong with them. And their revisionist history in excusing Gracie assholery is disgusting.
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Dec 2024 03:06:36 UTC No. 218298
>>218295
That's a shame too
I'm of the firm opinion that if I wouldn't try something with a woman I wouldn't try it with a man
I think it makes me the grntlest person in my gym, at the cost of my winrate with genuine Meatheads
But I'm not doing this for money and I can go home and not look at myself with disgust in the mirror
As opposed to being a deluded and salty fucking brasilian douchebag
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Dec 2024 03:25:26 UTC No. 218302
>>218298
I'm a moderate guy. You have to pressure test someone else you're not preparing them properly but on the other hand, there's no need to be a psycho.
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Dec 2024 04:29:56 UTC No. 218310
>>218295
Yeah I remember Hughes beating Royce. But there were still Gracies winning in Pride and other organizations. Nowadays that's not really the case anymore. Hughes beating Royce was one of the first tipping points.
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Dec 2024 04:45:00 UTC No. 218316
>>218302
Well I'm more of the stance that I don't mind having the breaks beat on me
And it's all the more true because most gyms have no shortage of tryhards
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Dec 2024 05:05:02 UTC No. 218326
>>218322
I'll never understand the desire to attack people that have knives
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Dec 2024 05:20:37 UTC No. 218329
>>218326
Sadly, believe it or not, blades are a very under estimated weapon.
You, right now, could be surrounded by people that think that a knife isnt deadly because guns exist.
>A knife
>HA AT LEAST IT'S NOT A GUN
People do not understand that blood can be lost fast
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Dec 2024 16:46:51 UTC No. 218346
>>218329
That and I think knife wounds and incidents look more vicious than gun fights
Both are naturally lethal but a man repeatedly stabbing another man or just swiping an artery is just awful
But at least the knife has a distance you can actively choose to not dive headfirst into
Anonymous at Wed, 25 Dec 2024 16:51:59 UTC No. 218347
>>218106
>Would any of them be using Gracie-style jiu-jitsu?
Probably not, but their style is embedded in MMA now. Even their interpretation of Judo Techniques.
Anonymous at Mon, 13 Jan 2025 23:22:45 UTC No. 219997
>>218095
I remember a story where they challenged a Capoeira gym and all of them got slept besides one, dunno if its true but sounds funny
Anonymous at Tue, 14 Jan 2025 02:31:42 UTC No. 220013
>>218095
Got my blue from Carlson around 2004. At that point there were zero black belts in my state. We used to beat each other half to death every night. Weird how much has changed. Now fat women get black belts for teaching kids class.
Anonymous at Sat, 18 Jan 2025 14:48:24 UTC No. 220407
>>218113
greco roman wrestling has nothing to do with greco roman culture. so?