🧵 Untitled Thread
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 20:49:18 UTC No. 16210401
Are hydrogen vehicles less or more of a meme than electric?
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 20:52:05 UTC No. 16210408
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 20:53:48 UTC No. 16210411
>>16210408
Not about spacecraft specifically
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 20:54:27 UTC No. 16210412
>>16210401
Yes.
>but ion
Ion engines aren't the only electric engine
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 20:58:12 UTC No. 16210422
>>16210412
Elaborate
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 21:00:25 UTC No. 16210431
>>16210422
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space
>electrostatic
>electrothermal
>electromagnetic
>photonic
>tether
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 21:03:18 UTC No. 16210440
>>16210412
electrostatic*
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 21:05:06 UTC No. 16210445
>>16210431
>wikipedia
its like admitting you have no idea what you're talking about
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 21:07:26 UTC No. 16210447
>>16210445
>cobson
Clearly you don't
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 22:58:33 UTC No. 16210655
>>16210401
Less of a meme, since the Saturn V had hydrolox stages.
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 22:59:31 UTC No. 16210658
Anonymous at Tue, 4 Jun 2024 23:01:30 UTC No. 16210660
>>16210412
I assume OP is talking about rockets with electric pumps instead of turbopumps, since those are the kind of "electric rockets" that are the biggest meme.
Anonymous at Wed, 5 Jun 2024 00:38:46 UTC No. 16210797
>>16210660
No, I'm talking generally, rockets or cars or whatever
Anonymous at Wed, 5 Jun 2024 16:18:10 UTC No. 16211961
>>16210401
>>16210411
>posts rocket
>wonders why nobody answers his question about LAND vehicles
the absolute state of /sci/ these days...
Anonymous at Wed, 5 Jun 2024 16:23:11 UTC No. 16211966
>>16210401
hydrogen fuel for land vehicles is totally a meme: the headaches for storage and cost of production outweigh its simplicity and lower emissions.
Hydrogen for rockets makes more sense despite the headaches, because it has the highest specific impulse. Not so great for first-stage boosters though: it was kind of a fad during the shuttle era, hence H-II, Ariane 5 and the pictured Delta IV. Most new rockets are going with methane instead.
Anonymous at Wed, 5 Jun 2024 16:26:46 UTC No. 16211972
>>16210401
I think hydrogen has more potential than a lot of people think. You need to think of it as being like a liquid battery. You push energy into it in some central processing location, then you carry it around to distribution points, then you put it in your car just like gasoline, then you "burn" it to get the energy you put into it back out. It's a lot more sensible than trying to force batteries to higher and higher capacities and faster and faster charging, techs which haven't even been proof-of-concepted yet much less implemented.
Anonymous at Wed, 5 Jun 2024 17:52:13 UTC No. 16212099
>>16210401
Hydrogen is a meme for every application except use cases with high energy requirements and low weight requirements like rockets and jets.
Anonymous at Wed, 5 Jun 2024 18:17:03 UTC No. 16212125
>>16210401
>Are hydrogen vehicles less or more of a meme than electric?
Hydrogen is very hard to work with as rocket fuel. It leaks out of engines that could handle most other propellants.
Anonymous at Wed, 5 Jun 2024 18:18:40 UTC No. 16212131
>>16211961
Its what the main picture wikipedia page had, i didnt know this board was full of spacecraft autists
Anonymous at Wed, 5 Jun 2024 18:50:34 UTC No. 16212175
>>16211972
For cars it works but storage and distribution is too expensive compared to existing alternatives.
About liquid batteries they actually exist. In fact it's a very interesting alternative to lithium batteries but they require further development and a specific distribution network.
Anonymous at Wed, 5 Jun 2024 19:57:28 UTC No. 16212258
>>16210401
Only possible /o/ think so
Anonymous at Wed, 5 Jun 2024 20:00:03 UTC No. 16212264
>>16210401
Hydrogen internal combustion looks quite nice, but the problem is storing and transporting hydrogen, which is less dense and prone to leaking since the molecules are smaller.
In theory you could pipe water to filling stations, then use on-site electrolysis to convert the water to hydrogen. No need for big trucks full of hydrogen making deliveries that way.
However you'd need a massive expansion of nuclear power to enable such infrastructure, and the filling stations themselves would have to be bigger and have more skilled employees.
Anonymous at Wed, 5 Jun 2024 21:39:28 UTC No. 16212498
>>16212264
So 120+ old internal combustion engine shorten as ICE and nuclear plants own storage tank turn common water/heavy water/methane into frozen H2O fuel….we come back full circle.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 00:13:19 UTC No. 16212716
>>16210414
Modern vaporwave-like ever made
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 00:50:53 UTC No. 16212767
Push many fuel cell infrastructure everywhere once trucker take off.
https://www.volvotrucks.com/en-en/n
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HD
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 05:14:50 UTC No. 16213097
>>16212498
HICE runs on gaseous hydrogen, not cryogenic liquid hydrogen. They are very similar to diesel engines. A great option if the fuel infrastructure could ever be worked out.
I think battery EVs still make a lot of sense for daily commuters that typically don't drive more than 2-3 hours a day. HICE is much better suited for industrial and commercial vehicles than EVs.
Of course both hinge on the demand to move away from oil. As long as gas/diesel is cheaper the others will have a hard time gaining traction.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 06:23:37 UTC No. 16213159
>>16210660
is it more weight efficient to drive a turbopump with a battery than with onboard propellant? Or are electric turbo's just much simpler to engineer?
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 06:31:51 UTC No. 16213166
>>16213159
No, the reason they aren't really used outside of rocketlabs tiny rocket is because the energy density of batteries is garbage and you lose so, so much margin carrying up heavy ass batteries instead of using on board propellant. Other than that, yes, electric turbopumps are better in every single way. If the magic battery came out tonight, everyone would switch to them tomorrow.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 06:43:25 UTC No. 16213180
>>16212264
>helium seals
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 07:44:08 UTC No. 16213252
>>16213159
No, and a pump isn't a "turbo"pump when you're driving it with an electric motor. It's just a pump.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 07:53:43 UTC No. 16213262
>>16210401
less but only slightly
main issues of electric cars is low energy density of batteries, charging time and maybe battery longevity
hydrogen tanks unless kept at cryogenic temps have energy density not much better than batteries, hydrogen will constantly leak (you basically cant stop this), in case of serious accident tanks become bombs and theres close to zero infrastructure and aviability of hydrogen
we'd need massive supply of cheap hydrogen and lots of refueling stations for it to make sense
and by massive supply I mean like actuall pipelines from production plants to refueling stations sinve it will constantly leak
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 13:13:56 UTC No. 16214529
>>16213097
>They are very similar to diesel engine
Give another long life.
https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/cl
https://hydrogen-central.com/new-sy
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 16:55:13 UTC No. 16217017
>>16212767
Coming out there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuU
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 17:07:28 UTC No. 16217064
A giant issue with using hydrogen in a combustion engine for vehicles is that it is really expensive. The price at the pump for hydrogen in California right now is like $36 / kg; conveniently 1kg of h2 has pretty much the same energy content as 1 gallon of gas, so basically hydrogen would need a full order of magnitude price drop to be competitive with gasoline. Fuel cells help some, being roughly twice as efficient as ICE , so "only" a 4/5th price drop would be needed, but auto grade fuel cells have remained very expensive to produce. Automakers that have made fuel cell cars have been super tight lipped on manufacturing costs for the fuel cells themselves, but most estimates place them as more expensive than a big battery pack these days.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 17:08:32 UTC No. 16217066
>>16217064
Wouldn't that problem naturally solve itself if economies of scale kicked in though? I get what you're saying, that it's a problem NOW, but I'm just saying.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 17:24:59 UTC No. 16217139
>>16217066
Hydrogen is already produced on an industrial scale for a wide variety of chemical processes; production has actually increased significantly over the last 5 years, but whatever economies of scale there are have been drowned out by other stuff going up in cost (particularly the fossil fuels most H2 is made out of). So hydrogen has basically doubled in price over the last five years.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 17:52:25 UTC No. 16217265
>>16210401
I've always wondered why rockets haven't been replaced with electric launchers. Like, it'd be safer and more efficient for the payload if we just used an electromagnetic catapult to launch everything into space and better for the environment. You wouldn't have toxic byproducts of rocket fuel filling the air nor the heat of the engine contributing to global warming.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 18:21:10 UTC No. 16217388
>>16217064
Electric use to be very expensive as well
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 18:23:39 UTC No. 16217403
>>16217265
The stored hydrogen gas is injected into the combustion engine, where it is ignited to power the vehicle. Colonization project opportunity for new economic fuel.
https://phys.org/news/2021-10-mars-
Honda even released H2 fuel cell powered EV next year.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 18:35:52 UTC No. 16217472
>>16212131
>i didnt know this board was full of spacecraft autists
Well now you do, because it literally is.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 19:56:44 UTC No. 16217817
>>16210447
HWABAG, you fucking skank
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 21:34:13 UTC No. 16218084
>>16210401
Will remain a meme until nuclear engines are developed.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 23:39:19 UTC No. 16218373
>>16210797
Hydrogen rockets and hydrogen cars have completely different operating principles.
Electric cars and electric rockets have completely different operating principles.
You are retarded.
Anonymous at Thu, 6 Jun 2024 23:44:56 UTC No. 16218390
>>16217265
>You wouldn't have toxic byproducts of rocket fuel filling the air
Hydrogen burning rockets produce... water vapor.
> the heat of the engine contributing to global warming.
You are retarded.
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 00:54:11 UTC No. 16218538
>>16218373
>>16218390
>retarded
Like Elon mars project?
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 01:25:25 UTC No. 16218579
>>16218538
Rent free.
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 01:31:35 UTC No. 16218597
>>16218579
Your copium is showing
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 14:23:32 UTC No. 16219702
>>16213180
Luna have rare resource called helium-3 and mars toxicity-salted soil help fuel an rocket
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 14:48:59 UTC No. 16219778
>>16210414
Why didn't they just make it electric? There's only 3 hydrogen stations in my country and no plans to expand the network. If this was an EV it would sell like hotcakes.
>but batteries and electric motors are bad!
It still has batteries and an electric motor, but instead of having a 80 kWh battery it has a 5 kWh one and 3 massive hydrogen tanks and a hydrogen pump and pipe system as well as a fuel cell stack so it just gets more expensive to build and service.
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 15:00:46 UTC No. 16219808
>>16219778
EV is for pussies
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 15:12:10 UTC No. 16219835
>>16219702
>Luna have rare resource
Go away, ESL.
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 15:49:51 UTC No. 16219936
>>16219835
>Go aw-ack
Strike nerve bitch?
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 16:03:34 UTC No. 16219965
>>16219936
Oooga booga yes, oooga booga leave.
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 16:04:22 UTC No. 16219968
>>16217265
>heat of the engine contributing to global warming.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 16:12:48 UTC No. 16219991
>>16219968
Actually he's not entirely crazy. A significant contributor to global warming is waste heat from human activity. Drive home, get out of your car then put your hand on the hood. That heat has to go somewhere. Into the atmosphere is where it goes, and that's where it stays.
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 16:13:06 UTC No. 16219993
>>16219965
Oh no, some random fag doesn't approve! What ever am I going to do?
Anonymous at Fri, 7 Jun 2024 17:15:38 UTC No. 16220131
>>16219835
>>16219965
Good morning larper saar
Anonymous at Sat, 8 Jun 2024 00:50:07 UTC No. 16221002
>>16217403
fpbp
Anonymous at Sat, 8 Jun 2024 12:52:41 UTC No. 16221802
>>16219991
>A significant contributor
Quantify it.
And get out your car and put your hand in air.
Feel the heat of the sun on your palm and multiply that by all the surface of earth.
Anonymous at Sat, 8 Jun 2024 15:36:44 UTC No. 16222071
>>16212767
Unless Biden use his brain
Anonymous at Sat, 8 Jun 2024 17:35:40 UTC No. 16222348
>>16212099
A meme just buzzword. There are unlimited plenty resources.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naf
Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 03:16:23 UTC No. 16223614
.
Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 13:23:20 UTC No. 16224357
>>16218538
based
Anonymous at Sun, 9 Jun 2024 13:42:51 UTC No. 16224392
>>16210401
Powered vehicles are a meme enabling degenerates and those who aren't ashamed.
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 06:03:21 UTC No. 16226266
Hydrogen is based. Electricity is a meme
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 13:48:59 UTC No. 16226782
>>16219835
No u spammers
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 14:22:49 UTC No. 16226823
>>16210401
The best way to store hydrogen is as a hydrocarbon.
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 15:18:58 UTC No. 16226869
>>16226823
>A novel approach to producing hydrogen peroxide for use in automobiles is to use fuel cells to produce the chemical. Currently, most hydrogen peroxide is produced using the Anthraquinone process, but other methods of developing the chemical are currently underway.
That work or would use solid red/pink hydrogen generate nuclear power?
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 15:35:57 UTC No. 16226889
>>16226823
Upgrade hydrogen pipeline, tanker and fueled infrastructure but storing as ammonia potential.
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 19:26:34 UTC No. 16227260
>>16213097
Even liquid nitrogen IC engine too?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWT
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 20:01:40 UTC No. 16227315
>>16226889
ammonia is too hazardous to handle
go with methanol or methane since there's already infrastructure all set up
🗑️ Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 20:17:18 UTC No. 16227347
>>16227315
Well considering ammonia suck out water from your body. However benefit would speeding the rate.
🗑️ Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 20:26:46 UTC No. 16227360
>>16227347
Well considering ammonia suck out water from your body. However benefit would speeding the rate. Easy to work than H2 flammable gas.
New red/purple H2 fuel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDg
Anonymous at Mon, 10 Jun 2024 20:27:56 UTC No. 16227361
>>16227315
Well considering ammonia suck out water from your body. However benefit would speeding the rate. Easy to work than H2 flammable gas.
New red/purple H2 fuel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDg
Anonymous at Tue, 11 Jun 2024 03:19:58 UTC No. 16227870
>>16210401
Don’t mind me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmZ
Anonymous at Tue, 11 Jun 2024 03:27:17 UTC No. 16227876
>>16219778
more like why didn't they give it a 5L V8. Pussy
Anonymous at Tue, 11 Jun 2024 12:44:04 UTC No. 16228309
>>16227315
>>16227870
produce & electrify these
Anonymous at Tue, 11 Jun 2024 20:19:45 UTC No. 16229028
>>16226889
>>16227361
Sign already: https://www.epri.com/research/produ
Anonymous at Wed, 12 Jun 2024 14:04:54 UTC No. 16230334
F-Zero GX and Fast Racing Neo not meme?
https://sportscar365.com/lemans/lem
Anonymous at Wed, 12 Jun 2024 16:17:15 UTC No. 16230529
>>16227315
>>16227361
Neology making on board ammonia carrier at H2 generation system.