🧵 If early ufc still existed, it would be dominated by wrestlers and maybe also submission grapplers
Anonymous at Sun, 23 Jul 2023 15:16:43 UTC No. 157763
Typical fight would probably look like this
>striking for a while
>someone gets taken down and catches the other one in guard
>the guy on top punches and headbutts the guy on bottom to wear him down
>after very long time the top guy passes the guard and submits the bottom guy or knock him out with punches and stomps
Bjj guys would survive this but they would need to learn how not to end up on the bottom or how to submit someone from bottom guard while getting headbutted.
Strikers would more doomed because they would need to learn how to grapple better than they can do it now because now they can just hold the grappler until the round ends. They would also need to learn how not to break their hands from bare knuckle punching like Gerard Gordeau.
But remember that biting and eye gouging were illegal in ufc 1. If we removed these 2 rules, they would either become unwritten rules because civilized humans just don't do it or the fights would be very short, ABSOLUTELY dominated by wrestlers and look more or less like this
>striking for a while
>someone gets taken down
>the guy on top submits the bottom guy with eye gouging
Anonymous at Sun, 23 Jul 2023 16:32:53 UTC No. 157779
>>157763
It sort of goes against the spirit of the sport and the want for bloodlust to “heem” someone so hard and yet this is a logical enough conclusion. We see enough wrestlefucking now that the fight would instantly improve with gouges as part of the offensive
We may well not even see Molly McCann level retardation with wrestling defence
Anonymous at Sun, 23 Jul 2023 16:39:06 UTC No. 157780
It would be even worse than that. It would be an explosive near-sumo movement to get to the cage, which you can then wrap your fingers around however you want to for position. Whoever is on the "outside" is nearly impossible to remove without extreme risk, leaving the guy pinned to it in a rock/hard place scenario.
Anonymous at Tue, 25 Jul 2023 04:47:27 UTC No. 158183
>>157780
Lmao what an autistic fuck
Anonymous at Sat, 29 Jul 2023 15:48:22 UTC No. 158979
>>157763
honestly there is a good reason for some basic rules.
>using that pic
this fight already showed us perfectly that there is a need to apply for rules to make the fights entertaining to watch. Wooow look he kicked out someone's teeth and he can kick on a downed opponent!! Very interesting fight indeed.
Most fights would just be very little fun to watch. Basically just a mix of boxing (trying to keep distance) and wrestling (tank some hits and down the enemy) and once you get downed ONE time you are basically a dead man
Anonymous at Sat, 29 Jul 2023 16:00:54 UTC No. 158983
>>158979
I mostly agree but I think the current UFC rules are a bit too strict. Legal kicks to a downed opponent is what made Pride FC extremely entertaining.
Anonymous at Sat, 29 Jul 2023 16:02:21 UTC No. 158984
>>157763
Its like you retards never go to any other boards. Go to gif hell even wsg, and lurk some rekt threads. All y'all tards debating about what no rules fights look like when there are fucking shit tons of examples on this site fucking constantly. Wrestling only works if its 1v1 or you feel confident the onlookers will leave you be. So tired of this bjj cult pretending like they're not a fucking sport. Show me webms of BJJ ending a fight where it isn't obvious they'd be fucked if people weren't playing the game. Even in the ring, the absolute worst things you could do to get out of submissions won't just get you disqualified, no one would ever take a match with you again. Bitch niggas in here acting like bjj is 2dedly4u when you need whole rulesets to even exist.
Anonymous at Sun, 30 Jul 2023 00:41:09 UTC No. 159074
>>158983
Hmm I mean I guess it can be debatable but back head hits and 12-to-6 make sense if you ask me (although people claim the latter is bs)
I think with kicks we would see less exciting fights although it would be a good thing against those BJJ guard losers
Anonymous at Sun, 30 Jul 2023 10:41:35 UTC No. 159141
Anonymous at Sun, 30 Jul 2023 12:32:18 UTC No. 159151
>>157763
Fights would be dominated by submission wrestlers more than freestyle wrestlers. A huge reason that wrestling is so strong in UFC is because the ruleset constantly stands the opponents up. At the start of every round the fighters return to standing position and then begin striking again. This and the short time limit offered in each round means that all grappling has to be done very quickly. You only have like 5 mins to score a submission, and if say 2 of those minutes are taken up with standup it means that you only have 3 minutes left to take someone down and score a sub. This means that the slow grinding attrition of jiu jitsu is not well suited to UFC. Instead of slowly advancing position and winning lots of smaller battles to gain a positional advantage UFC fighters need to get things done quickly, so they use simple pins and force changes in position with striking, if they even bother to change positions at all. This means that wrestlers, with their aggressive takedown attempts and their grappling style based off of explosive movements and athleticism to acquire a simple pin often works quite well compared to the slower more grinding pace of jiu jitsu, in which it can take several minutes to pass someones guard and get a submission. UFC fighters simply dont have that much time before they have to stand up again.
There are certain positions in bjj that arent good in MMA, like closed guard, but for the most part Bjj works well, its just it can't deal with the time limits. You can see this with people like Yuri simojes, an adcc champion who went into the UFC, the other guy would desperately do everything to avoid a takedown, and when yuri did score one he had very little time to actually get a submission before the next round started, so all the other guy had to do was just try and survive for a minute or two.
Anonymous at Sun, 30 Jul 2023 12:36:20 UTC No. 159152
>>159151
>BJJ is boring & inefficient
Abridged that for you.
Anonymous at Sun, 30 Jul 2023 12:44:49 UTC No. 159154
>>159152
Its not inefficient, its very reliable at getting submissions, but it is however quite difficult to get a submission on someone who tries to avoid the ground like the plague and then just tries to stall as much as possible until the round is over. These are legitimate tactics of course, but if instead of starting them from standing you started them from the position they were in at the end of the last round you would see the submission rates skyrocket. You would see BJJ guys get a takedown and get themselves into a decent position in one round and then in the next they would advance to like mount or back control and get the submission from there. The short round times and the fact that things always returns to standing irrespective of what position they were in last round kind of fucks bjj, which is highly positional and methodical and deliberate, and favours freestyle wrestling, which gets simple pins with athleticism and explosive movements.
Anonymous at Sun, 30 Jul 2023 13:16:28 UTC No. 159157
>>159154
>BJJ is inefficient in pro-fighting.
Anonymous at Sun, 30 Jul 2023 15:49:17 UTC No. 159174
>>159157
Which is why breaks should be abolished and there should be one 15 or 25 minute round
Anonymous at Sun, 30 Jul 2023 16:40:04 UTC No. 159184
>>159174
>Lets go back to the shit everyone called boring as fuck & was killing the sport.
Rules exist to create entertainment, some folks want to bullshit and say it was political pressure from pussies but the truth is in MMAs hayday when the great experiment first started and we did single round format, good fights, according to the masses, were few and far between by nature unfortunately. What happened more often than not was that both fighters would inevitably get gassed, assuming they're evenly matched. Which would then further devolve into grappling chess basically, which, as cerebral & skillful as it is, is about as much fun to watch as actual chess, because you either get the tap right away or it turns into a war of attrition and that shit is always ugly. The way I see it, as much as it disrupts the flow, it is a greater test of a fighters grappling skills. Being reset means that you must exploit & chain opportunities as quickly as possible.
Anonymous at Sun, 30 Jul 2023 17:29:36 UTC No. 159193
>>159141
well I'm no expert, maybe 12-to-6 is a bit silly then but no back head hits absolutely make sense.
in Germany, there recently died a teenager during an amateur football game because the enemy hit him hard enough on the back head to cause significant enough brain damage during an argument to kill him
https://www.fr.de/frankfurt/amateur
These are teens ofc but I doubt that the head gets all that much more robust after the age of "15" for it to make the back head a safe area
Anonymous at Sun, 30 Jul 2023 22:20:52 UTC No. 159232
>>159157
It's responsible for like 1/3 finishes. The only art I believe ends more fights is boxing. That being said, bjj is one of the most effective martial arts.
>>159184
I think a compromise would be the best. No rounds but if there is no significant strikes/position changes/submission attemps on the ground for 2 minutes, the referee tells the fighters to stand up.
Anonymous at Tue, 1 Aug 2023 13:25:04 UTC No. 159470
>>159232
No, its not. It's a combat sport that is only really viable in 1v1 and there are mountains of rekt threads that prove it. Not even gonna get into it. There was already a thread with a shit ton of stats posted. Most wins are by KO, 60%. Like you said taps account for 1 third of finishes & they're the most boring drawn out finishes there are. Its funny how much bjj dudes harp on about skill but when two evenly matched guys get tangled it so obviously just becomes attrition.
Anonymous at Thu, 3 Aug 2023 17:09:12 UTC No. 159813
>>157780
I saw a guys finger come off because he wouldn't let go of the cage, they were looking for it after the fight but it was in his own glove. Shit was crazy
Anonymous at Sun, 6 Aug 2023 04:17:25 UTC No. 160134
>>159152
>>159157
wrestling is also not efficient in a boxing match
anything can be fucked by rules, including how badly bjj is penalized rn
Anonymous at Sun, 6 Aug 2023 08:07:07 UTC No. 160153
>>160134
At least this take is true
Anonymous at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 12:25:06 UTC No. 166836
>>158979
who cares you faggot pussy bitch go watch your marvel movies if you want to be interested
Anonymous at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 13:12:42 UTC No. 166840
I'm not informed enough to have an opinion on this, but I really wish there was still a competition where martial arts purists could compete against purists of other arts. It's pretty soulful and has a lot of entertainment value.
Anonymous at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 15:31:37 UTC No. 166869
>>164205
>>164206
They'd do pretty well in slamming guys down effectively, but against a Jiu-Jitiero, Sambist, Judoka, Catch Wrestler, or Luta Livre practitioner, they'll run in trouble with the groundfighting.
>>166840
Ganryujima does. I love MMA, but I do miss the style vs style clash that early UFC had.
Anonymous at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 18:53:19 UTC No. 166925
early UFC was just a gracie jiujitsu marketing stunt
Anonymous at Fri, 15 Sep 2023 19:00:34 UTC No. 166929
>>158984
>Wrestling only works if its 1v1
yes thats the point retard