Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 00:09:42 UTC No. 159536

>>159527
>what? You can win in judo by throwing people to the ground? Hahaha what a retarded spor-ACK
https://youtu.be/0uTgqUErL6o

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 00:27:47 UTC No. 159540

>>159536
>only won the fight after punching him in the face a bunch

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 00:41:32 UTC No. 159546

the triangle (sankaku jime), RNC (Hadaka jime) , kimura (gyaku ude garami), and straight armbar (juji gatame) are all judo moves just to name a few examples that bjj simply copied
judo has far and away the highest finishing rate of any grappling art in MMA by a mile
compare that to how many gogoplatas, buggy chokes, and banana splits you've seen finish fights

/thread

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 00:44:30 UTC No. 159547

>>159546
and you guys have designed a ruleset that literally hates actually grappling

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 00:45:07 UTC No. 159549

>>159540
https://youtu.be/4mhv5eLT4nw

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 00:55:22 UTC No. 159553

>>159546
>gogoplatas, buggy chokes, and banana splits
Why did you forget about leglocks?
Also, If someone who has high rank in bjj and has never learned judo submits someone with a choke that exist in both bjj and judo, calling it a judo finish is a bit weird.

>>159527
Judo is a set of good skills with retarded rules. Bjj is a set of the same good skills with retarded mentality. What we really need is this >>153911

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 01:04:58 UTC No. 159554

>>159549
another fight ended by punches

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 01:11:23 UTC No. 159556

>>159547
I don't even do judo, I only have a yellow belt. I've taken maybe a dozen classes in my life and the only reason I even have the yellow belt is because I'm a brown belt in bjj and when I signed up for a competition as a white belt I absolutely ran through everybody. So in the interest of fairness they gave me a yellow belt on the spot so that wouldn't happen again.
that said even though I don't formally practice it I'm a student of the art and don't subscribe to the propaganda bjj likes to push. bjj is my drug of choice because It's really easy compared to the other grappling arts and that's my style, easy going and free wheeling
you're talking about olympic or kodokan judo though, kosen judo in the universities is judo all the same but the rules are closer to bjj so it looks more like bjj in practice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwhXVkeSj-0

>>159553
leglocks are legitimate though there's an argument to be made that the effective ones such as heel hooks are for the most part banned in brazilian jiujitsu too. They're only allowed in very specific divisions only since 2021, and their systemization is a uniquely american invention

but to your other point, this thread is about "the problem with judo" under the premise judo doesn't work
but it does work, everything that makes bjj work came from judo
its like saying "well we took all the good pieces and you can have what's left, looks like your shit doesn't work, sorry pal :^)"
I would say bjj is the thing that has problems because it lacks an identity of its own

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 01:12:56 UTC No. 159557

>>159554
No it wasn’t you retard, look at what he’s holding at the end. He broke his fucking ribs with that throw. Even if it was, so what? Do all the wrestlers who won by ground pound not count as wrestlers anymore?

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 01:29:38 UTC No. 159560

It's a real shame that Parisyan was the last prominent Judo guy in MMA who could also just fight. So many people credit Gokor and LeBell, but he had more direct training under them than maybe anyone, and then that's it.

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 02:04:36 UTC No. 159562

>>159556
I guess I should clarify my intention, I dont know/care about the effectiveness of Judo in MMA, im really just shocked at how embarrassing the ruleset is for competitive Judo
>you cant touch his legs, why? because you just cant okay?
>you cant grapple! stand up its already been 20 seconds!!! I know its a grappling competition just stand up NOW

I also think its really silly to say that one martial art "owns" a move. Martial arts can use moves but they cant own them. So the problem I have with competitive Judo is that the only effective thing they have is throws, but pretend to be a "grappling" art lmao. And with the way judokas talk on here you'd think its the golden gun of fighting in all scenarios when its literally just one move

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 02:16:18 UTC No. 159563

>>159562
>you cant touch his legs, why? because you just cant okay
It was added to prevent stalling. There was a point at which the judo meta was to score a waza-ari and then just dive at the legs and turtle to run out the clock. Obviously this is a problem, obviously banning all leg grabs was a stupid solution, but it was done to address a very real problem in the sport.
>you cant grapple! stand up its already been 20 seconds!!! I know its a grappling competition just stand up NOW
It’s in the spirit of Judo to fight aggressively. What you non-training retards never address is that if you’re not working in the standup either you’ll get penalized and reset also. You have to constantly be engaging in the fight, not stalling. If you want to take your time go do bjj.
>So the problem I have with competitive Judo is that the only effective thing they have is throws
Rousey finished most of her fights with armbars.
>but pretend to be a "grappling" art lmao
Is stand up grappling not grappling? Is sumo, backgrab, ringen, Shaui jiao, push hands, and glima all not real grappling either? They have even less groundwork, which is to say none.
>And with the way judokas talk on here you'd think its the golden gun of fighting in all scenarios when its literally just one move
There’s a lot of dumb shit said about judo on this board, this is the dumbest.
https://youtu.be/GVqk1-Ed6jQ

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 02:26:43 UTC No. 159565

>>159562
"Just throws" is dozens of techniques plus all those submissions
I can only speak to the quality of usjf black belts, but you're getting put through the floor once they get hands on you unless you're able to match their ability
a bjj black belt starting feet to floor may as well be a white belt
If it goes down on a sidewalk he's as good as dead
And a will be getting sumid into traffic if he shoots

Nobody likes the ijf rules, but that's not all there is to it

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 02:44:34 UTC No. 159566

>>159563
yeah bro lets play chess except you cant use your pawns or your queen

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 04:03:45 UTC No. 159572

>>159566
Do you shit on wrestlers who can’t do submissions? How about Greco Roman wrestling where they’re not allowed to grab the leg either? How about all those other styles where you’re not allowed to ground fight at all? Just shut the fuck up you retard

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 21:17:44 UTC No. 159684

>>159572
No but I do shit on taekwondo because it has an equally retarded ruleset in it's mainstream competitions

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 21:33:35 UTC No. 159690

>>159684
Explain why Greco Roman wrestling isn’t a retarded ruleset even though it’s even more restrictive than judo.

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 21:41:45 UTC No. 159691

>>159527
>just throw him on the ground and you win
Taking falls in the ring is a lot safer than taking them in most other places.

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 22:04:45 UTC No. 159694

>>159690
And that's why greco is overrated BUT
It's no gi so if crosstrained with bjj, it translates to mma better than judo

Anonymous at Wed, 2 Aug 2023 22:06:43 UTC No. 159695

>>159694
>it’s good but only with bjj
Nigger if you’re going to say it can be trained with bjj why are you not considering judo trained with bjj. Everyone who does judo or bjj in fact probably SHOULD cross train the other art as well because it makes you better at both.

Anonymous at Thu, 3 Aug 2023 01:27:15 UTC No. 159724

>>159690
I don't know the ruleset for Greco Roman wrestling, if I find out it is bad I will probably not make a similar thread on it because I have not heard a single Greco Roman wrestper act like it's the greatest martial art of all time

Anonymous at Thu, 3 Aug 2023 01:28:48 UTC No. 159725

>>159695
OP here, that wasn't me, I do find it funny that you're both trying to cross train into jiu jitsu

Anonymous at Thu, 3 Aug 2023 06:27:36 UTC No. 159749

>>159725
>I do find it funny that you're both trying to cross train into jiu jitsu
Why? What is wrong with that?
>>159724
I’m Greco Roman wrestling you cannot attack the legs at all. Not only does this include grabs to the legs but also sweeps and trips. Throws are emphasized and award more points than any other action. You can also win automatically by pin, or as you put it,
>you can just sandbag on top of him and win
Except it’s even easier in wrestling because you don’t have to maintain control for twenty seconds you just have to make both shoulders touch the mat for an instant. Also I think it’s weird that you think pinning isn’t a real grappling win since that’s what most people think of as winning in a grappling match anyways. It’s only jiujitsu people that think grappling should have submission be the only victory condition.
> I have not heard a single Greco Roman wrestper act like it's the greatest martial art of all time
People talk about how wrestling is le greatest martial art ever for MMA all the time what are you smoking?

Anonymous at Thu, 3 Aug 2023 22:30:35 UTC No. 159852

>>159749
Ive heard people say "wrestling is best base for MMA" but not talking about greco roman wrestling being the best martial art. Most of the time I assume these guys are talking about folkstyle

Anonymous at Fri, 4 Aug 2023 00:55:31 UTC No. 159865

>>159852
There’s literally a thread up right now saying that wrestling is the number 2 best martial art according to most people. And yeah, people don’t specify whether they’re talking about freestyle, folk style, or Greco Roman because most of the retards talking about this shit (you included) don’t have a clue about anything related to grappling.

Anonymous at Fri, 4 Aug 2023 01:08:10 UTC No. 159867

>>159865
I do know that if youre calling it a grappling sport you should probably let people grapple for more than 20 seconds at a time

Anonymous at Fri, 4 Aug 2023 01:28:47 UTC No. 159872

>>159867
Have you literally never seen a wrestling match? If the position is stalled the reset it just like in judo you absolute retard. They do the same in sambo too. It’s literally only bjj guys who will stay in the same position for 15 minutes at a time.
https://youtu.be/BMqaA71eqq8

Anonymous at Fri, 4 Aug 2023 02:25:07 UTC No. 159880

>>159867
Most sport grappling:
>grapple
>one player loses their advantage and plays defensive to avoid instantly losing
>the other player cannot leverage their advantage to overcome their opponent’s defensive tactics
>action stalls
>ref resets them
>they keep grappling for x amount of time
BJJ:
>grapple
>stalls
>advantaged player tries to submit from a slightly dominant position for x amount of time

In both of these situations there’s x minutes of grappling, Judo doesn’t “stop” people grappling, there’s literally as much grappling as there would be if the action wasn’t restarted within the same time frame.
There are obvious advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. Judo is far more spectator friendly, which is why BJJ will probably never be an Olympic sport. BJJ encourages far more technical groundwork, including the ability to defend and attack in lopsided positions which is why you have masters like rickson who can suit the average black belt while starting in a RNC.